European Flight Training (EFT)
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Did davey147 get back to us on whether you could do all your FAA training at Ari Ben Aviator, (PPL, FI, CPL, MEIR) and convert the FI & CPL to JAR at EFT?
Looking forward to hearing more from Cpt. Relax
Join Date: Feb 2004
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Hi, sorry I forgot all about it.
I did visit Ari Ben and EFT back in May.
The answer is yes, you can go to Ari Ben and do you FAA training, then to EFT to do your JAA conversions. In fact as far as I understood it, people who are on the EFT APP course are taught by Ari Ben instructors whilst doing the FAA training, its just $20k more expensive for some reason.
The schools seem nice, a little small, it was very busy when I visited. Overall the students I spoke to were happy with Ari Ben, I didnt meet students from EFT, but they are in the same building.
I have made the decicision not to go to Ari Ben or EFT just down to the fact that I didnt like the area, Ft Pierce is not very nice (sorry to anyone who lives there) and I was planning on spending 2 years in the States, so havibg to live there was not an option for me. Apparantly most of the students live in Vero Beach, which is very nice, but I couldnt really afford a car to drive down each day.
Only a small problem, which probably wouldnt put most people off
I suggest that you take some time out and visit as many schools in the USA as you can before you spend any money on training, its a large investment you are making, and youve got to make sure that you are 100% happy with what you are doing, if not, dont do it.
Hope this helps, if anyone has any specific questions, I will try to help (please remember though, I was only there for 2 hours)
I did visit Ari Ben and EFT back in May.
The answer is yes, you can go to Ari Ben and do you FAA training, then to EFT to do your JAA conversions. In fact as far as I understood it, people who are on the EFT APP course are taught by Ari Ben instructors whilst doing the FAA training, its just $20k more expensive for some reason.
The schools seem nice, a little small, it was very busy when I visited. Overall the students I spoke to were happy with Ari Ben, I didnt meet students from EFT, but they are in the same building.
I have made the decicision not to go to Ari Ben or EFT just down to the fact that I didnt like the area, Ft Pierce is not very nice (sorry to anyone who lives there) and I was planning on spending 2 years in the States, so havibg to live there was not an option for me. Apparantly most of the students live in Vero Beach, which is very nice, but I couldnt really afford a car to drive down each day.
Only a small problem, which probably wouldnt put most people off
I suggest that you take some time out and visit as many schools in the USA as you can before you spend any money on training, its a large investment you are making, and youve got to make sure that you are 100% happy with what you are doing, if not, dont do it.
Hope this helps, if anyone has any specific questions, I will try to help (please remember though, I was only there for 2 hours)
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Thank you very much Davey, It's making me think twice when you mention the two points being the area and the $20k extra. 
Guess I'll keep my options open.
Thanks again.
Guess I'll keep my options open.
Thanks again.
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"Which he worked out to be $20k cheaper."
Good luck with that.
It's a hell of a lot easier to go from JAA > FAA rather than the other way.
This is a false economy - trust me - I train conversion and most of the time they end up paying a lot more as they DO NOT convert in minimum hours.
If you want to fly JAA > train JAA.
Flying FAA without instructing is a very big false economy.
Good luck with that.
It's a hell of a lot easier to go from JAA > FAA rather than the other way.
This is a false economy - trust me - I train conversion and most of the time they end up paying a lot more as they DO NOT convert in minimum hours.
If you want to fly JAA > train JAA.
Flying FAA without instructing is a very big false economy.
Join Date: May 2006
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Davey147, did you find out why EFT students are charged more than the ABA students for accommodation/car hire?
Also, if you did choose to live in Vero Beach, does this affect the relationship with the student and EFT?
I know flight schools in the US generally use students as a cash cow, possible none US students more so.
Also, if you did choose to live in Vero Beach, does this affect the relationship with the student and EFT?
I know flight schools in the US generally use students as a cash cow, possible none US students more so.
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It's a hell of a lot easier to go from JAA > FAA rather than the other way.
Looking at doing the above but unsure of the cost for converting?
PPL conversion = ? in the US
Multi CPL Conversion = ? in the US
Multi IR Conversion = £5k in the UK
Can you convert an FAA Multi CFII to a JAA FI or does it require taking a full JAA course from scratch?
Thanks
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At the time accommodation was slightly more expensive at EFT than Ari Ben, I dont know why, they were the same houses at Vero Beach. I did ask, but the answer to the question was avoided, so no I cant really give you an answer sorry.
You can convert the FAA CFI to a JAA FI, the course would involve a lot less ground school hours, I cant remember exactly but a search in the lasors would get you the answer.
The EFT APP includes the FAA CFI conversion to JAA FI (R) this is the cut down conversion course.
I agree with BigGrecian going the FAA route isnt really an advantage unless you do some instructing, the prices turn out the same in the end. But the good thing is by going to EFT and Ari Ben, the schools are together, so the conversions shouldnt be a problem. I personally know of a few students who have got their FAA IR in EFT (Ari Ben) and returned to the UK and passed within the minimum of 15 conversion time, I think the school they used was Airways Flight Training.
If you havent done so, take a look on the JetCareers.com forum, this has a forum dedicated to Ari Ben, there is lots of useful info there.
You can convert the FAA CFI to a JAA FI, the course would involve a lot less ground school hours, I cant remember exactly but a search in the lasors would get you the answer.
The EFT APP includes the FAA CFI conversion to JAA FI (R) this is the cut down conversion course.
I agree with BigGrecian going the FAA route isnt really an advantage unless you do some instructing, the prices turn out the same in the end. But the good thing is by going to EFT and Ari Ben, the schools are together, so the conversions shouldnt be a problem. I personally know of a few students who have got their FAA IR in EFT (Ari Ben) and returned to the UK and passed within the minimum of 15 conversion time, I think the school they used was Airways Flight Training.
If you havent done so, take a look on the JetCareers.com forum, this has a forum dedicated to Ari Ben, there is lots of useful info there.
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PPL conversion = ? in the US
Multi CPL Conversion = ? in the US
Multi IR Conversion = £5k in the UK
Multi CPL Conversion = ? in the US
Multi IR Conversion = £5k in the UK
You only need an ICAO PPL (FAA) to start your ATPL theory.
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You only need an ICAO PPL (FAA) to start your ATPL theory.
After 12 months come home convert the ME-IR to JAA and get an MCC done.
Thanks for your help Davey ... You have a PM coming your way.
Join Date: Mar 2004
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Hey
Just my take on the whole thing.. Since I allready did it.
I would do the procourse at ABA.. And while instructing study the ATPLs..
Some instructors have done this. Also now ABA pay their instructors $35k a year.
Also if you study what is required on the procourse, you will have a head start on most of the ATPL subjects. (Mostly POF, Perf, Met, Flight planning, Nav and Radio Nav.. I think..
Then after 2 years (J-1 expire), you convert your FAA to JAA at EFT.
My MEP and CPL conversions were about $3k INCL fees and 170A. (Amazing how much simpler a MEP check ride is when you have 600 hours dual given on a twin..:-))
You can then convert your IR anywhere in Europe you want.. Almost everyone who has just done 500 hours of ME-IR instruction, wont find this to hard..
Just my take on the whole thing.. Since I allready did it.
I would do the procourse at ABA.. And while instructing study the ATPLs..
Some instructors have done this. Also now ABA pay their instructors $35k a year.
Also if you study what is required on the procourse, you will have a head start on most of the ATPL subjects. (Mostly POF, Perf, Met, Flight planning, Nav and Radio Nav.. I think..
Then after 2 years (J-1 expire), you convert your FAA to JAA at EFT.
My MEP and CPL conversions were about $3k INCL fees and 170A. (Amazing how much simpler a MEP check ride is when you have 600 hours dual given on a twin..:-))
You can then convert your IR anywhere in Europe you want.. Almost everyone who has just done 500 hours of ME-IR instruction, wont find this to hard..
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ABA don't pay their instructors $35,000 a year!
They have adverts for it, but most are still on the $10 - $15 per flight hour and unpaid for the rest. The $35,000 a year job is for US students to stop them going to a flight school which does pay decent money, and you have to commit to staying for a year. With a J1 visa they think you're already stuck there (And they'll cancel it if you so much as interview elsewhere), so they'll still pay you below minimum wage!
Anyone who can live in Ft. Pierce for a year deserves more!
The 'Price' of this scam went up $5000 to pay for it as well.
They have adverts for it, but most are still on the $10 - $15 per flight hour and unpaid for the rest. The $35,000 a year job is for US students to stop them going to a flight school which does pay decent money, and you have to commit to staying for a year. With a J1 visa they think you're already stuck there (And they'll cancel it if you so much as interview elsewhere), so they'll still pay you below minimum wage!
Anyone who can live in Ft. Pierce for a year deserves more!
The 'Price' of this scam went up $5000 to pay for it as well.
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ABA don't pay their instructors $35,000 a year!
I'm calculating my finances on the $35k pa for 18 months and the other 6 months doing the ProCourse. EFT (Trevor) said I would earn over $15,000 per year instructing at EFT so I guess the $10 - $15 per flight hour would be right. But surely ABA can't advertise EARN $35K pa and then change their mind when you get out there after remortgaging my apartment and giving up my job?!?
Think I need to give them a call when I have enough questions to ask.
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They separate between regular instructor pay which is hourly, and the salaried instructors who commit to staying for a year.
Don't budget around completing the pro course in six months. The average is 9-12 for committed students, and remember the listed price is meaningless.
Before you commit to giving up your job, take Daveys advice and go to visit some schools, and preferably take someone with you who can help you look for the right things. I wish I had!
Don't budget around completing the pro course in six months. The average is 9-12 for committed students, and remember the listed price is meaningless.
Before you commit to giving up your job, take Daveys advice and go to visit some schools, and preferably take someone with you who can help you look for the right things. I wish I had!
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All but one of my pro students did it in 6 months.. One even in 4... This is all for students arriving with a PPL though.. And also at times where the school havde had another 2 year instructor than Pierre, who at times is to busy to keep up.
The list price works here.. The program is set up, so that you will end up within the quoted price (or the instructor gets in trouble), since it includes a "buffer" of hours if you go over.. Only thing not included with the flying portion is the test fees and aircraft rental during theese tests.
I am not an US citizen (You might be able to tell from the spelling
), and I was offered to go on a contract as an instructor.. Unfortunately I couldnt, but I could easily have stayed for a year in Vero Beach..
But NH2390 is right.. Go see the schools..I also should have... Then I wouldnt have started out on another school....
The list price works here.. The program is set up, so that you will end up within the quoted price (or the instructor gets in trouble), since it includes a "buffer" of hours if you go over.. Only thing not included with the flying portion is the test fees and aircraft rental during theese tests.
I am not an US citizen (You might be able to tell from the spelling
), and I was offered to go on a contract as an instructor.. Unfortunately I couldnt, but I could easily have stayed for a year in Vero Beach..But NH2390 is right.. Go see the schools..I also should have... Then I wouldnt have started out on another school....
Last edited by henriksch; 14th Nov 2007 at 14:10.
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I totally agree with henriksch.
I also studied at Aviator/eft. Delays occur training during training everywhere, just today i lost a recurrent sim session. The training centre has 4 identical new boeing sims and loads of instructors !
I went to Aviator with a ppl and jaa ground school completed. In 6 cumulative months of being there I had jaa cpl / faa Mei/cfii. That included at least a month off for extreme hurricane damage related partying!
Mike is great at making sure student gripes with time/money constraints are resolved at source quickly and efficiently.
I certainly recommend aviator/eft. Especially if i had got $35k a year there!
R
I also studied at Aviator/eft. Delays occur training during training everywhere, just today i lost a recurrent sim session. The training centre has 4 identical new boeing sims and loads of instructors !
I went to Aviator with a ppl and jaa ground school completed. In 6 cumulative months of being there I had jaa cpl / faa Mei/cfii. That included at least a month off for extreme hurricane damage related partying!
Mike is great at making sure student gripes with time/money constraints are resolved at source quickly and efficiently.
I certainly recommend aviator/eft. Especially if i had got $35k a year there!
R
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In addition to the quoted price are:
Examiners Fees $2200
Written Test Fees $630
Books (approx) $600
Aircraft Rental for tests(approx) $2000
Fuel Surcharge $1500
Random Admin Fee $200
But the quoted price itself is meaningless. When you are there you're charged a rate for each hour you fly. Adding all that up simply doesn't equal the quoted price.
For the record I am currently employed as a flight instructor (my chosen career, not just hour building), although I don't teach non-US students. I know a lot about providing a quality training environment, and have no motivation other than warning people not to make the same mistakes I did.
My advice would be to find a small school for your PPL cheaply, then do a bit of flying, and visit as many schools as possible and find out what makes a quality environment for you. There are many J1 schools where you can work as an instructor, and make a decent living.
If ABA can work for you or not, you're better off finding out before you invest a lot of money in it!
Examiners Fees $2200
Written Test Fees $630
Books (approx) $600
Aircraft Rental for tests(approx) $2000
Fuel Surcharge $1500
Random Admin Fee $200
But the quoted price itself is meaningless. When you are there you're charged a rate for each hour you fly. Adding all that up simply doesn't equal the quoted price.
For the record I am currently employed as a flight instructor (my chosen career, not just hour building), although I don't teach non-US students. I know a lot about providing a quality training environment, and have no motivation other than warning people not to make the same mistakes I did.
My advice would be to find a small school for your PPL cheaply, then do a bit of flying, and visit as many schools as possible and find out what makes a quality environment for you. There are many J1 schools where you can work as an instructor, and make a decent living.
If ABA can work for you or not, you're better off finding out before you invest a lot of money in it!
