Stapleford
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: London
Age: 36
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Hi, quick question. The ab-initio fATPL, the part theory part at London Met, where did you find accomodation? According to London Met you are not eligable for the halls of residence.
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Hertford
Age: 40
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Hi, based on the excellent reviews of SFC im considering going there. However i was unclear if the course included multi crew training? If not where did people carry out there MCC training?
Also is the course classed as Modular or Integrated?
Ta
Also is the course classed as Modular or Integrated?
Ta
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Cloud Cookoo Land
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Parc are based in Dublin, many of the guys who I have trained with at Stapleford went there to do their MCC training. They said they were first class. They use the 737-200 Sim, however I do think they operate the 737-300 and A320 as well
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Essex
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Did they do there Type rating there with Ryanair. I'm going to train there this summer and just wondering whether anyone goes to Astraues for MCC &37 or to Parc becuase there is a chance with Ryan,
would really appreciate a PM etc.
would really appreciate a PM etc.
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: London
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Damienmk........
I have no doubts that the training is first rate, and i have never questioned this, but what i was going for is that fact that people do tend to spend alot of time doing something rather unproductive durring hours building.
Another thing i also look at is, if it makes no difference what school you go to and the piece of paper you get at the end of it, why do the so called 'other' schools have a higher airline employment rate for students? All of these places make you wear a uniform, teach you how to perform in interviews, and structure your hours building. I'm guessing that leaving stapleford you have found a job and are training with an airliner at the moment?
Another thing i also look at is, if it makes no difference what school you go to and the piece of paper you get at the end of it, why do the so called 'other' schools have a higher airline employment rate for students? All of these places make you wear a uniform, teach you how to perform in interviews, and structure your hours building. I'm guessing that leaving stapleford you have found a job and are training with an airliner at the moment?
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: London
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Intergrated
Originally Posted by Chocks_Away
But if you do the course fulltime why is it not recognised as an integrated course?
Also where are Parc based?
Ta
Also where are Parc based?
Ta
As for accomodation in london, have a look at local estate agents. They do 6 month contracts with 2 months notice = 8 months in a property, which is near enough perfect for any time you spend there.
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Cloud Cookoo Land
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...Structured Hour Building
...why all this fuss about structured hour building???
Do we need our training organisations to structure hour building for us?
As potential airline pilots about to embark on an expensive CPL course we should:-
A). Have enough info on what skills are required for a CPL and to what standards these skills are tested
B). From this be able to have enough savy to work how we can structure our own hour building while still having the autonomy to decide which way and how we want to do it in order to keep things enjoyable!
I think showing that you have the ability to decide what way is best to structure your own hour building and then displaying your developed abilites to your CPL instructor goes a lot further than someone who had to be given a list of instructions. Where's the fun in that anyway?
Do we need our training organisations to structure hour building for us?
As potential airline pilots about to embark on an expensive CPL course we should:-
A). Have enough info on what skills are required for a CPL and to what standards these skills are tested
B). From this be able to have enough savy to work how we can structure our own hour building while still having the autonomy to decide which way and how we want to do it in order to keep things enjoyable!
I think showing that you have the ability to decide what way is best to structure your own hour building and then displaying your developed abilites to your CPL instructor goes a lot further than someone who had to be given a list of instructions. Where's the fun in that anyway?
Join Date: Dec 1997
Location: Suffolk UK
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Actually, I totally disagree. You neither have the knowledge nor experience to structure your hour building effectively, and for too many people it becomes a case of just boring holes in the sky. Whether you learn anything or not is left to chance. That is totally inappropriate for what is supposed to be professional training. It is one of the major reasons why integrated courses (plus CTC) are preferred by some airlines, and why the MCL has been initiated.
If you want to just go and fly round and round looking at the view, stop at a PPL and spend the rest of the money enjoying yourself!
Scroggs
If you want to just go and fly round and round looking at the view, stop at a PPL and spend the rest of the money enjoying yourself!
Scroggs
Join Date: Mar 2006
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I have to agree with scroggs on this one. After a PPL, you won't have the knowledge to build hours contructively on your own. You will pick up bad habits, and you will be at risk. Those hours just after PPL are known as "The Death Zone". Do constructive flying to get your hours up, maybe add a night rating and an IMC to your licence. Instructors and airlines, etc., do NOT want to train or employ unstructured hour builders because bad habits picked up can be so difficult to erradicate.
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Hour Building
I'm sorry Scroggs, but I think we have our wires crossed here
By having enough info to structure our own hour building I relate to taking information from CPL instructors, examiners and successful CPL/IR students who have a wealth of experience. This combined with the mass of info available in books, magazines and on the net should be able to provide the 'responsible' and the 'conscientious' with enough amo to put together their own plan of attack.
I accept that some people benefit from structures while I also accept that some people just burn holes in the sky, however I think credit is due to those that put together their own plan from taking a wide range of info from the people that count. I think it shows an ability to make a structured decision on their own and helps people learn a lot more quickly that if something doesnt work out then it is largely down to themselves.
Therefore in my opinion those who structure their own hour building and witness the rewards in the end should deserve more credit.
By having enough info to structure our own hour building I relate to taking information from CPL instructors, examiners and successful CPL/IR students who have a wealth of experience. This combined with the mass of info available in books, magazines and on the net should be able to provide the 'responsible' and the 'conscientious' with enough amo to put together their own plan of attack.
I accept that some people benefit from structures while I also accept that some people just burn holes in the sky, however I think credit is due to those that put together their own plan from taking a wide range of info from the people that count. I think it shows an ability to make a structured decision on their own and helps people learn a lot more quickly that if something doesnt work out then it is largely down to themselves.
Therefore in my opinion those who structure their own hour building and witness the rewards in the end should deserve more credit.
Join Date: Dec 1997
Location: Suffolk UK
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You may be one of the responsible ones - in fact, I'm sure most are - but that doesn't alter the fact that a large proportion of your 'training' is left up to you, rather than to those who have the experience and knowledge to guide you, and that is not right.
That said, the vast majority of airline recruiters don't give a damn what you did in your hour-building phase; they just want to know you have the licence! It's only when talking hypothetically about what they'd like you to have under your belt before you come to them that they get exercised about the ATPL syllabus.
Scroggs
That said, the vast majority of airline recruiters don't give a damn what you did in your hour-building phase; they just want to know you have the licence! It's only when talking hypothetically about what they'd like you to have under your belt before you come to them that they get exercised about the ATPL syllabus.
Scroggs
Join Date: Nov 2005
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Out of interest what Structure do the Intergrated courses have in the their Hour building? Does an Instructor sit down, with each Pupil brief him on what he wants him to do for that flight. What he has to achieve and what is expected of him. Do they then, de brief them? ask them how the flight went etc. How do they know the student actually did what was asked of him as he wouldn't have been in the plane for the flight.
I personally think that there is a failing in the Hour building for the simple reason that there is no structure. It is the only part of becoming getting your Fatpl that is left to chance and the integraty of the student. There is nothing to say a student doesn't bounce around the circuit for 95 hours, you would hope he'll great at landing a C152 but other skills would be totally lacking. This would obviously be highlighted when he does his CPL and probably take him longer to complete.
In my mind the CAA should really have some say in what should/needs to be achieved, their only stipulation is a 300mile Xcountry flight and I can see why airlines take issue with this andtherefore prefer Intregrated students.
Having said all this, If the individual isn't prepared to take responsibilty for his/her training and development while doing their hour building then I don't think they are of a suitable mind set to progress to the CPL stage anyway.
If the MCL solves this, great..
I personally think that there is a failing in the Hour building for the simple reason that there is no structure. It is the only part of becoming getting your Fatpl that is left to chance and the integraty of the student. There is nothing to say a student doesn't bounce around the circuit for 95 hours, you would hope he'll great at landing a C152 but other skills would be totally lacking. This would obviously be highlighted when he does his CPL and probably take him longer to complete.
In my mind the CAA should really have some say in what should/needs to be achieved, their only stipulation is a 300mile Xcountry flight and I can see why airlines take issue with this andtherefore prefer Intregrated students.
Having said all this, If the individual isn't prepared to take responsibilty for his/her training and development while doing their hour building then I don't think they are of a suitable mind set to progress to the CPL stage anyway.
If the MCL solves this, great..
Join Date: Nov 2004
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Littco
If it were not for forums like these and for information gained from other ATPL holders, how the hell would you know what to do in your hour building towards CPL?
For example we all know that for CPL level, accurate flying is a prerequisite to passing the flight test. If however no-one ever told you this and you never had read the forums here would you know that you must practice accurate flying? Although this is a minor example it shows that we need at least some structure to our hour building as we would not know or learn the skills needed without some outside input.
Personally I would like an experienced instructor to guide and set tasks and trips for me to accomplish. No matter how good I think I was at flying, I might miss out or not practice a certain skill well enough to be able to reproduce it on a regular basis. This is why a structured hour building scheme would suit me personally.
If however you have great confidence in your own flying skills and ability, and know exctly what is required of you, then there is no need for instructor input.
Personally I prefer the former.
If it were not for forums like these and for information gained from other ATPL holders, how the hell would you know what to do in your hour building towards CPL?
For example we all know that for CPL level, accurate flying is a prerequisite to passing the flight test. If however no-one ever told you this and you never had read the forums here would you know that you must practice accurate flying? Although this is a minor example it shows that we need at least some structure to our hour building as we would not know or learn the skills needed without some outside input.
Personally I would like an experienced instructor to guide and set tasks and trips for me to accomplish. No matter how good I think I was at flying, I might miss out or not practice a certain skill well enough to be able to reproduce it on a regular basis. This is why a structured hour building scheme would suit me personally.
If however you have great confidence in your own flying skills and ability, and know exctly what is required of you, then there is no need for instructor input.
Personally I prefer the former.
Join Date: Nov 2001
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I think the thing you will find in Staplefords favour is although they do not hold your hand every step of the way they will do a cross channel check out prior to your hours building with a senior or commercial instructor who will make use of this flight to assess & give pointers on weak areas & what to concentrate on whilst flying around. You are allowed to take aircraft where you like without the restriction of returning to base each night and you are actively encouraged to go tour France or the low countries in an attempt to develop your flying & confidence. Half way through hours building it is again recommended a dual flight with commercial instructor is undertaken to ensure that no nasty habits are developing & further advice is given on what needs attention prior to CPL course. If a night rating is required this too is scheduled during hours building giving further guidance if needed. As has been said earlier in this thread students are not just a number at Stapleford so an instructor knows if you are on a commercial licence course and will treat you accordingly. It must be working reasonably well as they have had a 100% first series pass rate on CPL since 2002
Join Date: Jul 2003
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flying lion
sorry but that 100% stat is not true i was there since 2002 and guys on my course did not pass cpl first time also regarding what Dobney tells you about contacts in the airline business take it with a inch of salt i know for a fact he is not too popular with ryanair put it this way the head of training at ryanair wouldnt take a phone call from him
just trying to give a heads up this is alot of money you guys are about to spend would hate to see you spend money influenced by statements that are hard too back up
bf
sorry but that 100% stat is not true i was there since 2002 and guys on my course did not pass cpl first time also regarding what Dobney tells you about contacts in the airline business take it with a inch of salt i know for a fact he is not too popular with ryanair put it this way the head of training at ryanair wouldnt take a phone call from him
just trying to give a heads up this is alot of money you guys are about to spend would hate to see you spend money influenced by statements that are hard too back up
bf