Stapleford

[Callsign Kilo]

planeshipcar,

The Bond TR scheme is a TR scheme only, it does not guarantee a job with Astraeus. The 757 guys have been in the right place at the right time. Speaking as a Stapleford student, these guys were first class trainees, which likely led to the opportunity arising. Obviously, Astraeus looks at the performance of indivduals on their TR courses for potential employees, however if there ain't any positions there won't be any job offers. You take the risk of funding your own TR!

[SJG1]

As a Stapleford student, I’m more than happy with the level of training given. Yes they are extremely busy which says something for the quality of training and I’m not naive enough to believe that quantity of students must mean good quality instruction. As the above mail said, they are definitely not a sausage factory.

Most of the instructors bend over backwards to get you in the air or on the sim. If you are serious about your training then the instructors will look after you and groom you towards becoming a high quality pilot. From the outset, if you are starting as a PPL to go onto CPL/IR, you will receive the training geared towards you becoming a successful airline pilot.

There are slackers and non-committed who frequently fail to turn up for a slot. That slot is then lost. An instructor is left without a student and their time could have been used with someone else. These students tend not to get priority and instructors know who is and who isn’t committed to the training. What would these students be like working for an airline if they cannot be bothered to turn up for training at this stage in their chosen career?

In every training establishment you will always get people who praise and those who condemn. I have had experience of other schools who are very much sausage factories and whilst you may get the same licence, you also have to question in detail if you feel you have the experience and confidence behind it. Don’t be put off by the small country airfield impression, if you are serious about your training, you won’t be disappointed.

[balhambob]

Why is Stapleford Cheaper?? or am I missing something!?

Hi

Am looking to do a No Hours to frozen ATPL course. Am 30 years old and have saved 60k from current career to help realise this dream.

Have condidered the integrated v Modular argument and come to the conclusion that Integrated would be better for someone of my mature years so I can get into a position where I can market myself ASAP.

The decision I now face is where do I train? Would like to be based in the UK and I reckon I have 3 oprion

1) Oxford Aviation - 65k ish
2) Cabair - 55k ish
3) Stapleford - 35k (plus option of 25k for Astraeus with 100h on type B737)

As I see it for the same price as Oxford I could so to Stapleford, get the same qualification and also get 100h on a B737!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So would I be mad to go to Oxford or Cabair?

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Also has anyone been to Stapleford? Thoughts on the Astraeus Type rating (I know this wont guarentee a job but surely it will make you more marketable than if you came straight from OAT or Cabair with no Type hours)???

Staplefors also reckon 85% of Integrated Grads in 2005 now have a job - is this bull****!!!!?

Thanks

Rob

[Mercenary Pilot]

Stapleford isn't an integrated course.

[balhambob]

OK but isnt it essentially a number of small courses joined together - which is the same thing?

[Mercenary Pilot]

Essentially...yes, however Integrated courses are combined and are geared towards airline mentality (apparently). You should do a search on Integrated V's Modular it’s discussed regularly on PPRuNe and a cause of a lot of debate (and argument).

Have you looked at FTE in Jerez? Their integrated course has a better job placement success rate than one of the courses you have mentioned.

[balhambob]

I guess my point is:

If you can get the same licence from Satapleford plus 100h on B373 wouldnt this make you more marketable to an airline than someone fresh out of OAT or FTE?

[Mercenary Pilot]

Unfortunatly not

[balhambob]

I'm not sure I agree?

If I was an employer I would rather go for someone who had 100h on type rather than someone who did not!

Thats just my opinion. Would like to hear other peoples thoughts

[High Wing Drifter]

balhambob,

If I was an employer I would rather go for someone who had 100h on type rather than someone who did not!

You and I think along similar lines. Look past the word "integrated" and try to see what is really important and then realise what a joined up modular course at a single FTO amounts to pretty much the same thing. I don't believe for a minute and an employer would see the Stapleford course as inferior to the Oxford integrated course so long as you do all your training there and your student record shows good progress.

The only thing I would not assume is that 100 B737 hours equates to 100 B737 quality hours. I suspect some employers would be a little worried over the amount unlearning you might need to do to fit in with their ops standards. Just an off the cuff thought, dunno if it holds water.

[flyfish]

It’s a case of ‘you pays your money you takes your chance’.
Those that have completed the modular training with Stapleford and had success will of course speak positively about that route.
The same goes for Oxford, Cabair etc.
No one has a crystal ball, so all you can do is make an informed decision after investigating all possible avenues.
As for the specific advantages as I see them, at Stapleford you will come out at the end with the same licence as an integrated school but you will have a 737 rating and 100 hours on type.
The rating and 100 hours could be the advantage you need to get that all-important interview.
As for integrated, as you describe, there is no rating but people get interviews after recommendations from the schools and do get jobs.
I really don’t think anyone hand on heart will be able to give you an independent answer to your question. Like I said investigate investigate investigate, and make the decision as you see it working best for you.
I went modular, but that was because it fitted into my life a lot better than integrated, and it has worked for me. I have friends who went integrated and that worked for them.
If I were single with a wad of cash in my pocket I would opt for the integrated route.
If I was the above and 5 years younger I would be applying to the likes of CTC, which gives airline placement.
Good luck on your decision and your journey.
Flyfish

[ultimatepro63]

Also i believe that stapleford own the aifield out right so know landing charges or take off charges and because they dont have to pay parking fees the prices are lower. I Read somewhere on their site !

[balhambob]

Thanks for the advice Guys

I guess I need to make my decision (gonna be integrated) and go with it

I know its hard to get a job because we are all after the same thing!

i do believe that if you work hard, impress the right people, have your head screwed on and have the right attitude you will get to where you want to be.

I'm 30 and been watching the football tonight with a guy who did his CPL at 36 and is now RHS on a B373 so it is POSSIBLE!

Keep plugging away guys!

Ps - wheoever flys Sven back to Sweden - I commend you, just make sure you dony fly him back!

[WAG2006]

Hi Rob,

I started at SFC 2 years ago this August. I have just started line training on the 75 with Astraeus. I thoroughly recommend SFC as a TRAINING PROVIDER. It's a good time, there are plenty of jobs out there. SFC has been discussed at length on here so I won't go in to the whole debate.

If you need any further details on SFC send me a message. I and 2 other guys on my course are proof you can do zero to 250 hrs and get the job you want.

[Cirrus_Clouds]

Stapleford .... Hmmm!!

Flew to Stapleford for the first time yesterday and I have to say with all the talk of the aerodrome being used for flight training for the airlines, I expected more and I was disappointed.

The ATC is well.... *rap! (being A/G) and there wasn't a general professional feel of the place compared to that of Shoreham (where I'm based).

I have been considering my places of future flight training and the inital impression isn't good but I'm sure it has it's plus points.

I felt sorry for all the folks in the club rooms and bars, sitting in those high temps yesterday of 30 + and no air conditioning!!!


What do other pilots think of this aerodrome that come from full ATC airfields such as Shoreham or Bournemouth?

Laterz

[High Wing Drifter]

I've been doing my IR from an uncontrolled airfield. I think it is a good and a bad thing.

Bad because you simply need more hours for transitioning, but FTOs at these places tend to charge less so it all evens out, but achieving minimum hours is more difficult because it obviously doesn't leave the same time to practice specific exam routes.

I suppose it could be a good thing because you get to experience IFR flying in both environments and get to fly more routes in an out of the airways to help make the experience more generic. I have heard and read comments from a small number of people that even though they have just passed their IR, they never did this or that basic stuff in training, just flew exams routes and so aren't too confident about using the IR in anger solo in a different part of the country.

I could be writing boulacks, but that's just an impression I've got.

[VC10L1011]

I thought i'd add my response to all this... I too am one of the lucky 757 guys, but again I don't want to get in to that.

Stapleford Flight Centre is quite simply the finest in UK flight training schools. It provides flight and ground training of the highest quality, delivered by instructors who want YOU to succeed!!

Stapleford took me from complete novice to fATPL in 18 months, enabled me to pass PPL,ATPL's, CPL, ME & IR first time and have a great time along the way.

I think it is important to add that this didn't come easily and required and awful lot of sacrifice and hard work from myself and I would warn those who see integrated training as some kind of ticket to a job to think again!!!

In conclusion I would say to those who want to come out of flight training feeling a sense of success and who want to be a competent, skilled and able pilot to chose SFC. I know this is how I felt and I am now very fortunate to be in the situation I am.

[Sky Wave]

The beauty of doing your IR at Bournemouth is that it has all of the facilities, right on your doorstep. If you’re struggling with NDB's, you can get several holds and approaches done in an hour. You will also find that most lessons will end in an exam profile. By that I mean, you will return to the airfield, for either a procedural or r/v instrument approach. A lot of times that approach will be to a go around, engine failure then r/v single engine approach, single engine go around and finally a bad weather circuit to land. Every time you fly from Bournemouth you are doing part of the exam profile. You will also find that you will cover most of the exam routes when you train at Bournemouth. Doing this is just common sense, and in no way reflects badly on the schools. I trained with Professional Air Training, and I was told by one of the Bournemouth examiners that of all the schools that they examine, PAT are consistently the best.

I’ve a friend who trained at Stapleford and the one major plus point is the DA42. However, transiting to Southend, whenever you want to do instrument approaches, and having to go to Cranfield for your test does take the edge off of it. I also believe that the DA42 makes things a little too easy, and having just completed CTC’s AQC on the 737, I have discovered that your IR flying skills need to be top notch to fly a 737, and the last thing you need is an easy ride at the training stage. One of the guys that failed the AQC did so because his twin engined instrument flying was not up to speed. If he’d of trained at PAT, I am sure he would have made it through the AQC and would be sitting in the hold pool with me. (He didn’t train at Stapleford either BTW.)

Hope I’ve been of some help.

[omnidirectional737]

When I did my IR at Stapleford the first 30 hours were in the Sim, so you flew all the possible exam routes from Cranfield many times over with out wasting any time taxing etc. Also ifyou need extra practice in a certain area you can repeat this over and over.

[VC10L1011]

Yes the DA42 is great and a joy to fly, but whats most important is the Basic and Advanced Instrument Skills you will learn at Stapleford. They train you not to just pass the test in the DA42 but to be able to apply the skills learnt in any aircraft, in my case the 757 which I had no problem transitioning to.

At the end of the day once you understand the theory behind each a hold is a hold, an ILS is an ILS and an NDB is an NDB regardless of what aircraft you fly.