Loan security - BBVA
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Loan security - BBVA
Hello all, I have been accepted to start training at Jerez and am contemplating borrowing from the BBVA bank.
I have a question about the security for the loan, if anyone has done this can they please shed some light as to exactly what is required.
Do your parents have to hand over property deeds, or are they simply required to under sign your loan agreement and promise to cover payments in the event of default? I am trying to find out as much info as possible so I can ask them for support without risking heart attacks.
Anyone who has borrowed and can shed some light here will be thanked!!
I have a question about the security for the loan, if anyone has done this can they please shed some light as to exactly what is required.
Do your parents have to hand over property deeds, or are they simply required to under sign your loan agreement and promise to cover payments in the event of default? I am trying to find out as much info as possible so I can ask them for support without risking heart attacks.
Anyone who has borrowed and can shed some light here will be thanked!!
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I would advise you to avoid any deal which involves pledging your parents' home as security to cover your training costs, unless you are certain that you will be able to pay back the loan whether or not you succeed in aviation - unless you want to be responsible for your parents losing their home.
Think about it, please!
Incidentally, I find it somewhat incredible that some parents will actually acquiesce to such an arrangement. I certainly never would for my children. I suppose sometimes love is more than just blind...
Scroggs
Think about it, please!
Incidentally, I find it somewhat incredible that some parents will actually acquiesce to such an arrangement. I certainly never would for my children. I suppose sometimes love is more than just blind...
Scroggs
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Thank god for the voice of reason. Thank you Scroggs for that, maybe more younger would be pilots will think ahead and consider the future.
The majority of us have had to self fund, it's not nice, but it is satisfying. I have very little debt, NO loans, I waited until I was in my mid 30's to take up flying, sold my house etc etc.....
FF
The majority of us have had to self fund, it's not nice, but it is satisfying. I have very little debt, NO loans, I waited until I was in my mid 30's to take up flying, sold my house etc etc.....
FF
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Man, as if I already havn't tried EVERY other option!!!!
Those are truly wonderful comments, inspiring really.
I was quite specific about asking for HELP there, from people who had been down that road, not the nay-sayers!!!
I don't want to borrow any money from my folks. I want to borrow the money myself, however, I don't own a house, or anything other than my soul (which yes, I would sell) to use as security on a bank loan. I also dont have the 70K laying around its gonna take to pay for training and cover living expenses.
I am truly over joyed and happy for you that you sold your house and all that jazz to pay for your flying. I suppose if I waited that long for my libido to go and my hair to fall out then perhaps some of the best reasons to become a pilot would be gone and I might decide to become a policeman instead. Saving all that money.
Unfortunately I am not planning to give up on my dream. I have worked so hard to get where I am now, to even CONSIDER putting myself through flying training. If mummy and daddy were super rich parents without a brain between them, I would have asked them YEARS ago to just give me the money.
Man, I can't stand nay-sayers.
Incidentally Scroggs, I would love to be around when your child comes to you for help achieving their dream, and then seeing their face twist in pain as you dismiss them, being as you put it, dis-inclined to acquiesce their request.
I was quite specific about asking for HELP there, from people who had been down that road, not the nay-sayers!!!
I don't want to borrow any money from my folks. I want to borrow the money myself, however, I don't own a house, or anything other than my soul (which yes, I would sell) to use as security on a bank loan. I also dont have the 70K laying around its gonna take to pay for training and cover living expenses.
I am truly over joyed and happy for you that you sold your house and all that jazz to pay for your flying. I suppose if I waited that long for my libido to go and my hair to fall out then perhaps some of the best reasons to become a pilot would be gone and I might decide to become a policeman instead. Saving all that money.
Unfortunately I am not planning to give up on my dream. I have worked so hard to get where I am now, to even CONSIDER putting myself through flying training. If mummy and daddy were super rich parents without a brain between them, I would have asked them YEARS ago to just give me the money.
Man, I can't stand nay-sayers.
Incidentally Scroggs, I would love to be around when your child comes to you for help achieving their dream, and then seeing their face twist in pain as you dismiss them, being as you put it, dis-inclined to acquiesce their request.
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I am trying to find out as much info as possible so I can ask them for support without risking heart attacks.
If you are using your parent's home for security for your pilot training, then all semantics aside:
They are borrowing the money, not you.
They are taking all the financial risk, not you.
They are the ones who will potentially face the courts, not you.
They are the ones who will potentially lose their home, not you.
Ask yourself these questions.....
What if you don't pass your training? (This has been known to happen for a wide variety of reasons.)
What if something crops up where you cannot pass the medical anymore?
There are dozens of other scenarios which could leave you (well, your parents) high and dry.
If you put your mind to it, you could raise the funds yourself well before your hair falls out!
It's called working three jobs. Getting five hours sleep a night.
You risk your parent's home as if you didn't have a care in the world. Putting their time and effort on the line.
Like it or not sonny, they don't owe you this.
This is YOUR dream, not theirs.
Be responsible, and independent and do it yourself!
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Nay-sayer heh??????
Well flayinspanner, I take it that you already have your life mapped out then. I WAITED until I could afford to do what I wanted to do. I have always dreamed of being a pilot since I was 11 and sat on the flight deck of a JAL 747-100 for over a hour on the way to Japan.
But then you know better than me or scroggs, don't you sonny boy!
I will take the comments about libido and hair falling out as amusing as you cannot have any idea about the world yet. But hey you know what, its not my house or future you are playing with.
If you do the responsible thing, like most pilots, we will respect you more, your comments were childish in their manner and mine are here to infuriate you.
You say you cannot stand naysayers well kiddo I cannot stand a******s like you.
Have you even wondered WHY nobody has replied to you regarding risking your parents future on what must be an insane risk????
I know a bit about finance, I used to be a Business Manger for a Large Motor Dealer, but you know better don't you?
Right end of rant I cannot be bothered to argue with a small minded fool, who thinks its okay to gamble with peoples lives, you will make a great pilot mate. Just don't let me on a aircraft piloted by your self.
FF
Well flayinspanner, I take it that you already have your life mapped out then. I WAITED until I could afford to do what I wanted to do. I have always dreamed of being a pilot since I was 11 and sat on the flight deck of a JAL 747-100 for over a hour on the way to Japan.
But then you know better than me or scroggs, don't you sonny boy!
I will take the comments about libido and hair falling out as amusing as you cannot have any idea about the world yet. But hey you know what, its not my house or future you are playing with.
If you do the responsible thing, like most pilots, we will respect you more, your comments were childish in their manner and mine are here to infuriate you.
You say you cannot stand naysayers well kiddo I cannot stand a******s like you.
Have you even wondered WHY nobody has replied to you regarding risking your parents future on what must be an insane risk????
I know a bit about finance, I used to be a Business Manger for a Large Motor Dealer, but you know better don't you?
Right end of rant I cannot be bothered to argue with a small minded fool, who thinks its okay to gamble with peoples lives, you will make a great pilot mate. Just don't let me on a aircraft piloted by your self.
FF
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FlayinSpanner you say you are asking for help. What sort of help do you expect to receive? Some way of deceiving your parents into believing that their home would not be at risk if you fail to be able to repay the money? Dream on!
One of the things you have to learn in this world is that it owes you nothing. If you want something, you have to do the work to earn it. You say you've worked so hard to get where you are now - so what? Does that mean it's now time for someone else to pick up the bill? Dream on some more!
If you cannot get into CTC's scheme, or the other airline-assisted schemes available, then you will have to pay the bills yourself. It is possible, as plenty here can tell you. If you really can't envisage a way of earning enough to pay for your training without risking your parents' home, are you really up to this career?
As Farrell said, this is your dream, not theirs. If you want the dream to turn into reality, don't do it in a way that may destroy what they've worked for so you can get there.
Scroggs
One of the things you have to learn in this world is that it owes you nothing. If you want something, you have to do the work to earn it. You say you've worked so hard to get where you are now - so what? Does that mean it's now time for someone else to pick up the bill? Dream on some more!
If you cannot get into CTC's scheme, or the other airline-assisted schemes available, then you will have to pay the bills yourself. It is possible, as plenty here can tell you. If you really can't envisage a way of earning enough to pay for your training without risking your parents' home, are you really up to this career?
As Farrell said, this is your dream, not theirs. If you want the dream to turn into reality, don't do it in a way that may destroy what they've worked for so you can get there.
Scroggs
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FlayinSpanner,
Everybody would love to start their ATPL when they are an 18-year-old walking spermbank, but unfortunately this is only possible for those who have affluent parents, or for those talented types who set up businesses when they are in their teens. As I fell into neither category I was faced with two options:
1. Secure a loan on my mother's house, or 2: earn my own money to pay for my dream.
Option 1. was never a starter for me as no matter how much I wanted to fly, it was never enough to justify the prospect of having to watch some bailiff escort my mother from her home.
Option 2. was the only choice then, so I went out into the big, bad world and became an aircraft technician to pay my way. It took a hell of a lot longer to save than I thought it would but you've no idea how costly adult life is until you experience it. I still had to get a loan - just got it from the HSBC today actually, unsecured- to allow me to complete my studies, but it is a totally manageable one now, as opposed to a £60,000+ one.
Okay, I'll admit that I do look enviously at the 18-year-olds in my flight-school and wonder whether they actually know how lucky and privileged they are to be able to complete this course and enjoy the life experiences that this affords them whilst they are in their prime. The chances are they probably don't because they haven't experienced the humdrum and expense of normal working life, or because growing up with wealth they are accustomed to it. Another factor is the majority of the students' parents being wealthy, the chances are that the growth in the value of their houses over the last decade will have paid for their courses alone.
If your parents really can afford to risk their home to finance your dream then surely they are in a position to finance your course outright? If not then I would argue that you may want to consider whether they really can.
Remember, it's easy to pull the wool over you and your parents' eyes and be convinced that there is a guaranteed well-paid jet job awaiting you out there the second that licence hits your door mat. This is because you know how hard you'll study to obtain outstanding groundschool marks, how you'll take to each aircraft as if you were its test pilot, what a can-do-will-do attitude you have, not to mention your multitude of attributes that will stand you out from the rest. As for your parents....well, they won't believe you wouldn't present the complete picture to them, not their blue-eyed boy.
I recommend you do what I did. You may be older, but if you research properly you'll realise that plenty of airlines appreciate the maturity and life skills that an older person offers, and that many Chief pilots are aware that, for many, this is their only option into flying. Also, in the future, many more will be forced to follow my lead as the costs of obtaining an ATPL rise, especially if -as I expect will happen, but do not agree with- airlines insist on applicants having attended a full-time Integrated course.
Just think of the self pride to know that you got there -like a man- on your own, and that you won't be putting your parents through years of worry until you've paid that final penny back to the bank. And, trust me, you have no idea how many pennies extra the interest rate create on every extra penny borrowed -the less you can borrow the much cheaper and easier in the long-run.
Some are born into money, others, like you and me, are not. C'est la vie! Getting to where you want to get to may take longer, but get there you can.
Finally, when I get my first flying job, regardless of the nature, I promise I will get greater satisfaction and enjoyment from doing so than any silver-spooned 18-year-old, for, like Sinatra, "I did it my way!".
VC10 Rib22
p.s. Good luck! However, from your replies to those kind enough to respond to your post, I think I know which route you'll be choosing........and it won't be the hard one. Also, why don't you encourage your parents to peruse the experiences of those who have gone before you by directing them to pprune? Are your morals high enough to do this? Or perhaps, apart from risking their home for you, that's where you think their involvement should end. Methinks they may not be quite so willing to 'invest' once the true picture is available.
Everybody would love to start their ATPL when they are an 18-year-old walking spermbank, but unfortunately this is only possible for those who have affluent parents, or for those talented types who set up businesses when they are in their teens. As I fell into neither category I was faced with two options:
1. Secure a loan on my mother's house, or 2: earn my own money to pay for my dream.
Option 1. was never a starter for me as no matter how much I wanted to fly, it was never enough to justify the prospect of having to watch some bailiff escort my mother from her home.
Option 2. was the only choice then, so I went out into the big, bad world and became an aircraft technician to pay my way. It took a hell of a lot longer to save than I thought it would but you've no idea how costly adult life is until you experience it. I still had to get a loan - just got it from the HSBC today actually, unsecured- to allow me to complete my studies, but it is a totally manageable one now, as opposed to a £60,000+ one.
Okay, I'll admit that I do look enviously at the 18-year-olds in my flight-school and wonder whether they actually know how lucky and privileged they are to be able to complete this course and enjoy the life experiences that this affords them whilst they are in their prime. The chances are they probably don't because they haven't experienced the humdrum and expense of normal working life, or because growing up with wealth they are accustomed to it. Another factor is the majority of the students' parents being wealthy, the chances are that the growth in the value of their houses over the last decade will have paid for their courses alone.
If your parents really can afford to risk their home to finance your dream then surely they are in a position to finance your course outright? If not then I would argue that you may want to consider whether they really can.
Remember, it's easy to pull the wool over you and your parents' eyes and be convinced that there is a guaranteed well-paid jet job awaiting you out there the second that licence hits your door mat. This is because you know how hard you'll study to obtain outstanding groundschool marks, how you'll take to each aircraft as if you were its test pilot, what a can-do-will-do attitude you have, not to mention your multitude of attributes that will stand you out from the rest. As for your parents....well, they won't believe you wouldn't present the complete picture to them, not their blue-eyed boy.
I recommend you do what I did. You may be older, but if you research properly you'll realise that plenty of airlines appreciate the maturity and life skills that an older person offers, and that many Chief pilots are aware that, for many, this is their only option into flying. Also, in the future, many more will be forced to follow my lead as the costs of obtaining an ATPL rise, especially if -as I expect will happen, but do not agree with- airlines insist on applicants having attended a full-time Integrated course.
Just think of the self pride to know that you got there -like a man- on your own, and that you won't be putting your parents through years of worry until you've paid that final penny back to the bank. And, trust me, you have no idea how many pennies extra the interest rate create on every extra penny borrowed -the less you can borrow the much cheaper and easier in the long-run.
Some are born into money, others, like you and me, are not. C'est la vie! Getting to where you want to get to may take longer, but get there you can.
Finally, when I get my first flying job, regardless of the nature, I promise I will get greater satisfaction and enjoyment from doing so than any silver-spooned 18-year-old, for, like Sinatra, "I did it my way!".
VC10 Rib22
p.s. Good luck! However, from your replies to those kind enough to respond to your post, I think I know which route you'll be choosing........and it won't be the hard one. Also, why don't you encourage your parents to peruse the experiences of those who have gone before you by directing them to pprune? Are your morals high enough to do this? Or perhaps, apart from risking their home for you, that's where you think their involvement should end. Methinks they may not be quite so willing to 'invest' once the true picture is available.
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Just present the risks to your parents in a no BS way (exclude the marketing crap) and if they are still willing to support you, go for it.
Its up to you and your parents and no one else.
At the end of the day, FlayinSpanner asked a question. He/She didn't ask for opinions on whether it was a good idea or not, he/she just wanted to hear from people who have done it in the past. Unfortunately that seems to be like a red rag to a bull around here and people take it upon themselves to jump on their soap box and have a rant.
Back to the subject - I am also thinking of using BBVA for Jerez in the coming months so, could anyone who has actually had some dealings with them in the past shed some light on their experience?
V2
Just present the risks to your parents in a no BS way (exclude the marketing crap) and if they are still willing to support you, go for it.
Its up to you and your parents and no one else.
At the end of the day, FlayinSpanner asked a question. He/She didn't ask for opinions on whether it was a good idea or not, he/she just wanted to hear from people who have done it in the past. Unfortunately that seems to be like a red rag to a bull around here and people take it upon themselves to jump on their soap box and have a rant.
Back to the subject - I am also thinking of using BBVA for Jerez in the coming months so, could anyone who has actually had some dealings with them in the past shed some light on their experience?
V2
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veetwo,
I'm sorry but if FlayinSpanner comes onto pprune asking for advice without expecting any ppruners offering opinions that he may not want to hear, then he shows a great deal of naivety as doing so is not only human nature but practically an unwritten pprune tradition.
Perhaps he should have qualified his posting, something along the lines of "I am trying to find out as much info as possible so I can ask them for support without risking heart attacks, but do not want any replies from those who think the huge gamble my parents would be taking with their home be expounded. Furthermore, I actively encourage replies from those with a live for today not tomorrow attitude, after all it's what I want to hear".
However, such is the camaraderie within this site, I believe ppruners would still do their best to offer a resisting force to balance the strong attraction that the piloting world has on wannabees.
Just because both he and his parents want to offer the house as a guarantee doesn't mean they should. There are thousands of broken parents out there whose love for their children and feeling of responsibility for their needs has cost them everything.....their home, their marriage, their health and their money.
As long as FlayinSpanner and his parents have thoroughly and exhaustively researched the market and are completely aware of the magnitude of the gamble they would be undertaking, and that he is happy within himself that his need to experience the life of an airline pilot whilst still young outweighs the wellbeing of his parents and the security of their home, then whilst I still wouldn't think it the best course of action, I would agree it is up to them to decide.....and hope neither of them live to regret it.
VC10 Rib22
I'm sorry but if FlayinSpanner comes onto pprune asking for advice without expecting any ppruners offering opinions that he may not want to hear, then he shows a great deal of naivety as doing so is not only human nature but practically an unwritten pprune tradition.
Perhaps he should have qualified his posting, something along the lines of "I am trying to find out as much info as possible so I can ask them for support without risking heart attacks, but do not want any replies from those who think the huge gamble my parents would be taking with their home be expounded. Furthermore, I actively encourage replies from those with a live for today not tomorrow attitude, after all it's what I want to hear".
However, such is the camaraderie within this site, I believe ppruners would still do their best to offer a resisting force to balance the strong attraction that the piloting world has on wannabees.
Just because both he and his parents want to offer the house as a guarantee doesn't mean they should. There are thousands of broken parents out there whose love for their children and feeling of responsibility for their needs has cost them everything.....their home, their marriage, their health and their money.
As long as FlayinSpanner and his parents have thoroughly and exhaustively researched the market and are completely aware of the magnitude of the gamble they would be undertaking, and that he is happy within himself that his need to experience the life of an airline pilot whilst still young outweighs the wellbeing of his parents and the security of their home, then whilst I still wouldn't think it the best course of action, I would agree it is up to them to decide.....and hope neither of them live to regret it.
VC10 Rib22
Last edited by VC10 Rib22; 6th Nov 2005 at 04:49.
Hey all
I'm in the same boat as FlayinSpanner at the moment. I'm planning on the Jerez course in Jan. Now as I just finished Uni, and have already spent all my savings on my PPL and GA flying, I have pretty much nothing.
Now my parents know the risk, but at the moment have each agreed to take half the loan against their own houses. But I will not let them do this unless I can offer security of my own to them, be it by an insurance policy maybe?
Now does anyone know if I can take out an insurance policy in the event of me not being able to complete the course (through loss of medical, death or serious injury) to repay the loan?
The other option I have at the moment, while I have this time off over winter is to maybe write a piece of software and sell it. Now anyone got any fantastic ideas that will make me a millionaire
Jamo
I'm in the same boat as FlayinSpanner at the moment. I'm planning on the Jerez course in Jan. Now as I just finished Uni, and have already spent all my savings on my PPL and GA flying, I have pretty much nothing.
Now my parents know the risk, but at the moment have each agreed to take half the loan against their own houses. But I will not let them do this unless I can offer security of my own to them, be it by an insurance policy maybe?
Now does anyone know if I can take out an insurance policy in the event of me not being able to complete the course (through loss of medical, death or serious injury) to repay the loan?
The other option I have at the moment, while I have this time off over winter is to maybe write a piece of software and sell it. Now anyone got any fantastic ideas that will make me a millionaire
Jamo
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VC10 Rib22,
I understand what you are getting at. It is a massive gamble and perhaps you and others think it is not sensible to secure the loan against a parents property. Fair enough, indeed it may well be an unwise course of action in some cases.
In others, it is merely a decision about how is best to finance the course. A lot of parents could, if push comes to shove, find the money for the entire course without having to sell their house or affect their quality of life. Equally they could, in the event of disaster, cover the repayments or the cost of the loan. Unfortunately, not many parents are willing to hand things out like that on a silver platter. Sure, they love you, but they expect you to take some of the responsibility.
For example, take the parents who, if they wanted to, could sell £60,000 worth of shares to fund their son or daughter. Great, they don't have to secure the loan on the house. Unfortunately daddy decides that he'd rather keep earning dividends on those shares for the moment, so secures the loan knowing that if worst comes to worst, cash from another area can be diverted. This is just one of many possibilities. Other parents might fund part of the course and secure a smaller bank loan.
There is one point i really disagree with though. People who stand up and say "go and bloody earn it, nothing comes easy in this world m'laddo" are just wrong. There are many ways to skin a cat. For me to earn £60,000 would take years and years and years. "OK so what?" I hear you say. Well, for a start, if I dont start training for 10 years I'll be 34 when I finish. I've lost 10 years of potential earnings as a pilot (and probably spent those 10 years earning a lot less than I otherwise might have as a FO) and I've also become a bigger training risk for the airline. My job prospects don't look as good, and when I do start a job I won't be able to work for as long.. my pension will suffer, I still won't have a foot on the property ladder, I'll probably have very little to my name, and by the time I'm 30 something I may well have a family to support and think about. Thus, there are many many arguments for getting a loan and getting on with it.
I'm not for a minute saying that the family who will lose absolutely everything if things go wrong should secure their property against a large loan. Thats not what I'm saying. Clearly that would be a silly gamble. What I am saying is that for certain families the risk is in reality very low. Its certainly not as cut and dry and some people make it out to be. Defaulting on the loan does not necessarily mean that your family has to beg on the street.
V2
I understand what you are getting at. It is a massive gamble and perhaps you and others think it is not sensible to secure the loan against a parents property. Fair enough, indeed it may well be an unwise course of action in some cases.
In others, it is merely a decision about how is best to finance the course. A lot of parents could, if push comes to shove, find the money for the entire course without having to sell their house or affect their quality of life. Equally they could, in the event of disaster, cover the repayments or the cost of the loan. Unfortunately, not many parents are willing to hand things out like that on a silver platter. Sure, they love you, but they expect you to take some of the responsibility.
For example, take the parents who, if they wanted to, could sell £60,000 worth of shares to fund their son or daughter. Great, they don't have to secure the loan on the house. Unfortunately daddy decides that he'd rather keep earning dividends on those shares for the moment, so secures the loan knowing that if worst comes to worst, cash from another area can be diverted. This is just one of many possibilities. Other parents might fund part of the course and secure a smaller bank loan.
There is one point i really disagree with though. People who stand up and say "go and bloody earn it, nothing comes easy in this world m'laddo" are just wrong. There are many ways to skin a cat. For me to earn £60,000 would take years and years and years. "OK so what?" I hear you say. Well, for a start, if I dont start training for 10 years I'll be 34 when I finish. I've lost 10 years of potential earnings as a pilot (and probably spent those 10 years earning a lot less than I otherwise might have as a FO) and I've also become a bigger training risk for the airline. My job prospects don't look as good, and when I do start a job I won't be able to work for as long.. my pension will suffer, I still won't have a foot on the property ladder, I'll probably have very little to my name, and by the time I'm 30 something I may well have a family to support and think about. Thus, there are many many arguments for getting a loan and getting on with it.
I'm not for a minute saying that the family who will lose absolutely everything if things go wrong should secure their property against a large loan. Thats not what I'm saying. Clearly that would be a silly gamble. What I am saying is that for certain families the risk is in reality very low. Its certainly not as cut and dry and some people make it out to be. Defaulting on the loan does not necessarily mean that your family has to beg on the street.
V2
Last edited by veetwo; 6th Nov 2005 at 10:49.
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Veeto,
As long as parents offering their home as a guarantee can really afford to cover the repayments should a pilot job not come about, I don't have a problem with this issue. Where I do have a problem is when they base their ability to meet repayments on the equity in their home. One only has to look at the crash of 1989 to see the dangers of presuming that property equity will always be there. As far as I can tell the signs are that the housing market is now beginning to follow a similar pattern to that in 1989, which is backed up by some City analysts predicting falls of 30-40% over the next few years. Relying on share values is probably even riskier as prices are highly susceptible to market forces, and when you see the massive corporate corruption within huge multinationals like Enron and Parmalat, it makes you wonder what may be going on in less well regulated companies.
At the end of the day they can gamble if they want to.
VC10 Rib22
As long as parents offering their home as a guarantee can really afford to cover the repayments should a pilot job not come about, I don't have a problem with this issue. Where I do have a problem is when they base their ability to meet repayments on the equity in their home. One only has to look at the crash of 1989 to see the dangers of presuming that property equity will always be there. As far as I can tell the signs are that the housing market is now beginning to follow a similar pattern to that in 1989, which is backed up by some City analysts predicting falls of 30-40% over the next few years. Relying on share values is probably even riskier as prices are highly susceptible to market forces, and when you see the massive corporate corruption within huge multinationals like Enron and Parmalat, it makes you wonder what may be going on in less well regulated companies.
At the end of the day they can gamble if they want to.
VC10 Rib22
Last edited by VC10 Rib22; 6th Nov 2005 at 23:10.
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Can I ask why you have to borrow all that money and do an integrated course?
I am one of those "young things" that people will hate, however i have been flying for 4 years and by the time i've got to the stage of fATPL ( say 300hrs ish) I will have minimal debt. I will not have borrowed against my parents home (even though the offer was there) It will have taken me approx. 2years from 50hr fresh PPL and I will have gained experience in the working world that I couldn't have hoped for just doing an integrated course straight from school/uni.
Why at 18/19/20/21 do you need to rush through and spend x thousand pounds on training when it will not take a hell of a lot longer to gradually build up to it and get a lot of experience from those you meet along the way.
Yes what I'm doing is hard work. I work 9-5, 5 days a week(did start of doing 6 but found weather was rubbish on the 7 day for flying) and am studying for the ATPL's at night. I fly at weekends. As has been said on this thread already (by those balding and of little libido!!) if you don't work for it will you really appreciate it?
Just my tuppence worth.
I am one of those "young things" that people will hate, however i have been flying for 4 years and by the time i've got to the stage of fATPL ( say 300hrs ish) I will have minimal debt. I will not have borrowed against my parents home (even though the offer was there) It will have taken me approx. 2years from 50hr fresh PPL and I will have gained experience in the working world that I couldn't have hoped for just doing an integrated course straight from school/uni.
Why at 18/19/20/21 do you need to rush through and spend x thousand pounds on training when it will not take a hell of a lot longer to gradually build up to it and get a lot of experience from those you meet along the way.
Yes what I'm doing is hard work. I work 9-5, 5 days a week(did start of doing 6 but found weather was rubbish on the 7 day for flying) and am studying for the ATPL's at night. I fly at weekends. As has been said on this thread already (by those balding and of little libido!!) if you don't work for it will you really appreciate it?
Just my tuppence worth.
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Cloud 69,
Its a lifestyle choice really. Personally, I don't fancy working 9-5 at a temp job, 5 days a week for X many years to fund a modular course. Equally, I feel I will perform better during an integrated course in a very concentrated environment. I don't really believe in the modular route of training (yes, I've done my research and visited many integrated and modular schools and talked to tens and tens of students from both routes). Thats just my personal opinion - I respect completely that others will disagree... (I'm just fed up of arguing about it with them).
If you can afford to go integrated, the consensus from everyone I've talked to (including many instructors) is go for it. A lot of people can't afford to do it - well, unfortunately thats just one of those things. It doesn't mean those that can afford it, shouldn't do it.
V2
Its a lifestyle choice really. Personally, I don't fancy working 9-5 at a temp job, 5 days a week for X many years to fund a modular course. Equally, I feel I will perform better during an integrated course in a very concentrated environment. I don't really believe in the modular route of training (yes, I've done my research and visited many integrated and modular schools and talked to tens and tens of students from both routes). Thats just my personal opinion - I respect completely that others will disagree... (I'm just fed up of arguing about it with them).
If you can afford to go integrated, the consensus from everyone I've talked to (including many instructors) is go for it. A lot of people can't afford to do it - well, unfortunately thats just one of those things. It doesn't mean those that can afford it, shouldn't do it.
V2
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What a thread!!!
You can feel the loathing and seething hatred here alright!!
I feel obliged to point out (especially to VC10 Rib22) that while of course I know everyone on PPRUNE carries a soap box around with them and that there is nothing a pilot likes more than the sound of his/her own voice, I feel that my point has been missed.
After a lot of research regarding a future in aviation I had asked a simple question and did not feel the need to justify myself or why I was asking it, however from the heated responses I would just like to say...
I am FULLY aware of the rammifications of using my parents home as security against a training loan, hence SECURITY I am really sorry people feel like they have to go on about this and the reason I bit is that the forums are swollen with the exact same responses!! Don't do it man!! Go off and earn it yourself!! Don't involve your family!!! I have read the same things countless times and don't need reminding!! As i also said before, I don't really want to involve them , but I have little choice at this point in time. I cannot afford to do it without help.
I understand and appreciate all your comments, but your responses are totally off topic!!
All I am looking for is information so I can discuss this with my parents. I want to be able to sit down and discuss it with them properly knowing all of the facts. At no point did I even imply that I was going to feed them with bull**** or lie to them (interesting how SOME people jumped to that conclusion with their hatred soap box rants, makes one wonder where their advice experience comes from!!) I just want to be able to sit and ask them, given all the information if they would be in a position to help me or not. Surely thats fair enough??? If they cannot help me, for whatever reason, then thats fine. At least I know I have to knuckle down and try to turn 10 years of saving in to as small a period as possible.
I like some others who have posted on these forums want to achieve my dream, but like I hinted, everyone has a shelf life. At the moment there is a recruitment drive going on, how long is this going to last? I don't want pride getting in the way and me missing the boat!
I pose the question again, if anyone has asked there parents to act as guarantors against their training loan, how exactly was this accomplished?
Thanks
You can feel the loathing and seething hatred here alright!!
I feel obliged to point out (especially to VC10 Rib22) that while of course I know everyone on PPRUNE carries a soap box around with them and that there is nothing a pilot likes more than the sound of his/her own voice, I feel that my point has been missed.
After a lot of research regarding a future in aviation I had asked a simple question and did not feel the need to justify myself or why I was asking it, however from the heated responses I would just like to say...
I am FULLY aware of the rammifications of using my parents home as security against a training loan, hence SECURITY I am really sorry people feel like they have to go on about this and the reason I bit is that the forums are swollen with the exact same responses!! Don't do it man!! Go off and earn it yourself!! Don't involve your family!!! I have read the same things countless times and don't need reminding!! As i also said before, I don't really want to involve them , but I have little choice at this point in time. I cannot afford to do it without help.
I understand and appreciate all your comments, but your responses are totally off topic!!
All I am looking for is information so I can discuss this with my parents. I want to be able to sit down and discuss it with them properly knowing all of the facts. At no point did I even imply that I was going to feed them with bull**** or lie to them (interesting how SOME people jumped to that conclusion with their hatred soap box rants, makes one wonder where their advice experience comes from!!) I just want to be able to sit and ask them, given all the information if they would be in a position to help me or not. Surely thats fair enough??? If they cannot help me, for whatever reason, then thats fine. At least I know I have to knuckle down and try to turn 10 years of saving in to as small a period as possible.
I like some others who have posted on these forums want to achieve my dream, but like I hinted, everyone has a shelf life. At the moment there is a recruitment drive going on, how long is this going to last? I don't want pride getting in the way and me missing the boat!
I pose the question again, if anyone has asked there parents to act as guarantors against their training loan, how exactly was this accomplished?
Thanks
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FlayinSpanner,
Are you feeling okay? Loathing and seething hatred is what is happening on the streets of Paris. Perhaps you may be a little too sensitive to become a pilot. The strongest comment so far was F.F. calling you an a......e but, to be fair, you had wound him up by labeling him a naysayer when he all he was doing was warning you of the financial risk ahead.
So far your posting has had over 444 views and the people aren't exactly beating the door down to either tell you how the BBVA agreement works or that what you're doing is a good idea - read into that what you will.
Anyway, because I neither hate or loath you, I've listed below some really complex and intelligently thought out ways to assist you.
1. Contact F.T.E. and ask them direct.
2. Contact F.T.E. and ask them to put you in contact with students who have dealt with BBVA.
3. Contact BBVA direct.
4. Utilise the search function on pprune to contact past and present F.T.E. students and email them.
Good Luck!
VC10 Rib22
You can feel the loathing and seething hatred here alright!
So far your posting has had over 444 views and the people aren't exactly beating the door down to either tell you how the BBVA agreement works or that what you're doing is a good idea - read into that what you will.
Anyway, because I neither hate or loath you, I've listed below some really complex and intelligently thought out ways to assist you.
1. Contact F.T.E. and ask them direct.
2. Contact F.T.E. and ask them to put you in contact with students who have dealt with BBVA.
3. Contact BBVA direct.
4. Utilise the search function on pprune to contact past and present F.T.E. students and email them.
Good Luck!
VC10 Rib22
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I've said my piece and I shan't repeat it. I neither hate nor loath you, Spanner, but I do think that what you are leading towards is very unwise. However, it's up to you and your parents.
The simplest advice is to go to an independent financial advisor and find out what products exist that may achieve what you want with the least risk to your parents. I suspect there aren't many. Also, you should talk to the integrated training providers to see if they can offer anything that can be secured on your future rather than your parents' house.
Scroggs
The simplest advice is to go to an independent financial advisor and find out what products exist that may achieve what you want with the least risk to your parents. I suspect there aren't many. Also, you should talk to the integrated training providers to see if they can offer anything that can be secured on your future rather than your parents' house.
Scroggs
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I've known many people who have had their parents provide loan security for flight training. None have truly realised what a big risk it is. The general story seems to be that Jr. has told mum and dad that although 70k is quite a bit of money it's nothing in the medium run. After all, at the end of the training Jr. will soon be flying an A320 at 35k per year with a left seat upgrade bumping up the cash to 80k a few years down the line. Reality is more likely to be a period on the dole followed by an instructors rating and sub 10k pa FI work until you get the big break; and that will probably be with an unstable freight outfit trying to rob you of another 12k for a type rating to fly HS748's around in the night.
Do your parents truly realise what they are getting into FlayinSpanner? Do you realise it? I don't think that there is going to be any way of avoiding the odd heart attack. It might be a decent time to let them know this little fact.
Do your parents truly realise what they are getting into FlayinSpanner? Do you realise it? I don't think that there is going to be any way of avoiding the odd heart attack. It might be a decent time to let them know this little fact.
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Look, Im really sorry. I think either people are not reading the previous threads or they just want to have a shot at repeating what others have written.
PLEASE UNDERSTAND
I get it, I DO I really really know how big a risk it is. I have spent a long time researching forums, speaking to people about flight training and getting funding. I absolutely didn't want to involve my parents, for all the same reasons people have listed.
I don't know why people think I havn't realised asking for financial assistance could be risky!! I am sure there are niave people out there, but after 30 seconds of searching the threads on this forum, that would be quickly dispersed.
I have put together business proposals for banks in order for me to get a loan off my own back. Quite simply this is not going to happen for lots of reasons I am not going in to. One of the options for me at this moment in time is to get information from people who have had their parents provide financial assistance, so that both I and my parents can discuss it properly and consider if them helping would be a viable option (isn't that the purpose of asking questions on these forums? To gather answers from others who have gone before you?). I don't want them to sell their home etc. I want to have the facts, so it can be DISCUSSED. I can't state this any more clearly. I am trying to approach this sensibly, not skip up to them singing, mummy daddy, can I have some money pretty please? Oh goody!! I don't want to lie/bull****/hide truth or sugar coat anything.
Of course I am considering all other possibilities, scholarships, recruitment schemes (some of which I am in the process of selection) but I don't understand why people are missing the fact I am simply looking for information about another choice.
PLEASE..... NO MORE POSTS ABOUT HOW FINANCIAL SECURITY IS RISKY. I GET IT. HONESTLY. I PROMISE. BUT I STILL WANT TO KNOW! IF YOU HAVE NOTHING HELPFUL TO ADD, THEN PLEASE DON'T!!!!
End of rant.
P.s. Many MANY many thanks to the people who have PM'd me with the information that I requested on this thread. It has been very useful and appreciate your answering my questions without the big brother lectures.