Overqualified?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: North
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Overqualified?
Hi,
Another wannabe here. 30yrs old, MSc in mech.eng. finishing PhD. Working in R&D organization and daydreaming of doing flying for living.
Hear many times I am crazy and that my dreams are signs of lunacy
Question is - do prospect airline companies look negative on high education? Why did I take my degrees? I love engineering (MSc part), needed to mature and really learn something (PhD part), work to earn money for proving that I am lunatic
Yeah, I know, I have read endless posts, I must expect miserable salary, unemployment for uncertain time, etc. I just wonder if my education is actually negative for future employers
Thanks
Another wannabe here. 30yrs old, MSc in mech.eng. finishing PhD. Working in R&D organization and daydreaming of doing flying for living.
Hear many times I am crazy and that my dreams are signs of lunacy
Question is - do prospect airline companies look negative on high education? Why did I take my degrees? I love engineering (MSc part), needed to mature and really learn something (PhD part), work to earn money for proving that I am lunatic
Yeah, I know, I have read endless posts, I must expect miserable salary, unemployment for uncertain time, etc. I just wonder if my education is actually negative for future employers
Thanks
Join Date: Nov 1999
Posts: 2,312
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The simple answer is no ! Why would an airline looking for intelligent pilots with a mature attitude and outlook, find a good education to be a negative quality ? Of course no sensible employer would. However you are also looking to aquire a valid set of professional creditionals and probably some credible experience to accompany them. Without these you are unemployable in this market. With them you compete with many others.
So the good news is your education is likely to be viewed positively. The bad news is you are currently very underqualified. The professional qualifications will be an absolute pre-requisite, and the "experience" issue will then become an important balancing factor.
So the good news is your education is likely to be viewed positively. The bad news is you are currently very underqualified. The professional qualifications will be an absolute pre-requisite, and the "experience" issue will then become an important balancing factor.
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Manchester,England
Posts: 120
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
CW,
Have you had a trial lesson yet?If not get down to your local airfield and get up in the air , its the only way to find out if you will enjoy flying.Talk to instructors and get their opinion on your ambitions.
I have a degree and at least it gives you some thing to make your CV stand out from the crowd.
Have you had a trial lesson yet?If not get down to your local airfield and get up in the air , its the only way to find out if you will enjoy flying.Talk to instructors and get their opinion on your ambitions.
I have a degree and at least it gives you some thing to make your CV stand out from the crowd.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: North
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Follow up of the topic.
Took trial lesson.
Was unfortunate with weather. Clear skies but at ENVA some strong winds at 650ft ors from southeast made for wildride (at least it looked so for me). Yes, I had to use sickbag and was hoping Cessna made strong airframe
Besides that it was awesome. I have now taken Class 2 medical and am going for PPL. Hopefully ATPL will be in my pocket one day as well as job
Took trial lesson.
Was unfortunate with weather. Clear skies but at ENVA some strong winds at 650ft ors from southeast made for wildride (at least it looked so for me). Yes, I had to use sickbag and was hoping Cessna made strong airframe
Besides that it was awesome. I have now taken Class 2 medical and am going for PPL. Hopefully ATPL will be in my pocket one day as well as job
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Kilmacolm
Age: 47
Posts: 740
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi CheerfulWannabe,
Before you do anything else, go and obtain a JAA Class 1 medical. The standards are a lot tougher than those at your local AME for the initial Class 2. Unfortunately the initial Class 1 Medical has to be done at Gatwick but without the Class 1 you will *not* be able to become a professionally qualified pilot.
It costs around £400 for the initial but its money well spent.
Apart from this, your qualifications are a fantastic quality to add to your CV. It will also give you something to fall back into if, for some reason, you fail your Class 1 medical in the years to come.
Best wishes,
Charlie Zulu.
Before you do anything else, go and obtain a JAA Class 1 medical. The standards are a lot tougher than those at your local AME for the initial Class 2. Unfortunately the initial Class 1 Medical has to be done at Gatwick but without the Class 1 you will *not* be able to become a professionally qualified pilot.
It costs around £400 for the initial but its money well spent.
Apart from this, your qualifications are a fantastic quality to add to your CV. It will also give you something to fall back into if, for some reason, you fail your Class 1 medical in the years to come.
Best wishes,
Charlie Zulu.
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: england
Posts: 109
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Humm, if you have a MSc and a PhD, you must have some sort of brain cell, therefore look at the situation, are you over qualified? I think not, however i think this is just a way of attention seeking.
You will however be underqualified when compared to those who have graduated with degrees such as, MBBS BAO BA, LLB, BDS etc. and there are quite a few people with degrees in medicine, Chemistry, law, physics, dentistry, mathematics etc. who do apply. this will be the time to start thinking and posting "am i underqualified?"
It really irritates me when people post questions that they know the answer to, and are just looking to gloat, but as you will know, a degree in engineering is not as impressive as any of the above!
Maybe usefull for a job in engineering, but as i have heard it referred to as a useless degree, give the major airlines degrees in sciences anyday.
Hope you people understand my post.
You will however be underqualified when compared to those who have graduated with degrees such as, MBBS BAO BA, LLB, BDS etc. and there are quite a few people with degrees in medicine, Chemistry, law, physics, dentistry, mathematics etc. who do apply. this will be the time to start thinking and posting "am i underqualified?"
It really irritates me when people post questions that they know the answer to, and are just looking to gloat, but as you will know, a degree in engineering is not as impressive as any of the above!
Maybe usefull for a job in engineering, but as i have heard it referred to as a useless degree, give the major airlines degrees in sciences anyday
.Hope you people understand my post.
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Manchester, UK
Posts: 129
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Danny_manchester,
I find people irritating that post untrue facts motivated by unnecessary anger.
It may seem like a silly question to a person that has some experience of aviation, but to a newcomer it is not. Being overqualified is a real problem in other industry's.
So an Engineering degree is seen in as derogatory? I suggest that you speak to the people that recruit pilots...
A degree may have some bearing, but there is much more emphasis on your flying qualifactions and experience. There will be more emphasis (but generally not mandatory) on the degree if you are looking for sponsorship, but at 30 sponsorship is not an option to the best of my knowledge.
You people? 
Good luck to you CheerfulWannabe
POL (First Class Honours Degree in Electronic Engineering)
It really irritates me when people post questions that they know the answer to, and are just looking to gloat,
It may seem like a silly question to a person that has some experience of aviation, but to a newcomer it is not. Being overqualified is a real problem in other industry's.
You will however be underqualified when compared to those who have graduated with degrees such as, MBBS BAO BA, LLB, BDS etc. and there are quite a few people with degrees in medicine, Chemistry, law, physics, dentistry, mathematics etc. who do apply. this will be the time to start thinking and posting "am i underqualified?"
A degree may have some bearing, but there is much more emphasis on your flying qualifactions and experience. There will be more emphasis (but generally not mandatory) on the degree if you are looking for sponsorship, but at 30 sponsorship is not an option to the best of my knowledge.
Hope you people understand my post.
Good luck to you CheerfulWannabe
POL (First Class Honours Degree in Electronic Engineering)
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: england
Posts: 109
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think you can understand that if somebody has a degree in physics, it would be much more desireable than a degree in any type of engineering.
Come on, if 2 pilots share the same flight experience, would an airline recruit somebody with a degree which can be obtained by somebody with minimal qualifications, or a degree in lets say physics, which is a lot harder to pass than engineering. *(Experience of a uncle with a Eng. degree, and his wife with a BDS degree.)
If you are a direct entry pilot, your credentials are extreamly important, and i think you will find if you would have spoken to the airlines before your degrees, they would have advised you to take a strong academic subject.
1st class is not much to be impressed by, if it was in EEng. i mean how hard can it be? compared to strong academic subject, the answer is .................... Not very. Please refrain from showing off, when there is nothing to show off about.
regards.
Also, please be kind enough to point out where my anger is coming from? I think that you will find that it is more moronic people who should read up on the simple things in life such as REQUIREMENTS FOR DIRECT ENT. PILOTS. there is no such thing as being over qualified for any position, oh .............. possible if a doctor were to apply for an Engineering degree.
Come on, if 2 pilots share the same flight experience, would an airline recruit somebody with a degree which can be obtained by somebody with minimal qualifications, or a degree in lets say physics, which is a lot harder to pass than engineering. *(Experience of a uncle with a Eng. degree, and his wife with a BDS degree.)
If you are a direct entry pilot, your credentials are extreamly important, and i think you will find if you would have spoken to the airlines before your degrees, they would have advised you to take a strong academic subject.
1st class is not much to be impressed by, if it was in EEng. i mean how hard can it be? compared to strong academic subject, the answer is .................... Not very. Please refrain from showing off, when there is nothing to show off about.
regards.
Also, please be kind enough to point out where my anger is coming from? I think that you will find that it is more moronic people who should read up on the simple things in life such as REQUIREMENTS FOR DIRECT ENT. PILOTS. there is no such thing as being over qualified for any position, oh .............. possible if a doctor were to apply for an Engineering degree.
Educated Hillbilly
Danny Manchester, I see from your post you have no knowledge of Engineering. Engineering is applied maths and physics, anyone who can study engineering could study physics and vice versa. Infact it is possible to be awarded either BSc or a BEng in engineering, beleive it or not the BEng is regarded as a step above the BSc, an engineer holding a BSc would need to sit engineering council exams to gain chartership, until very recently a BEng would have provided exemption from these exams.
Engineering is the application of science and maths, using a subject in an applied manner provides more challenges than studying a standalone academic subject. A mathematician can explain a triple integral, but an engineer must be able to understand the physical concepts, use the maths and interpret it to the real world. At Loughborough engineering degrees had considerable more hours on the course than the other subjects.
Airlines disregard engineering, five of my course colleagues were part sponsored by airlines. My own forthcoming airline interview was gained on the grounds of my engineering background. Please before posting base your statements on personal experience, or fact not hear-say statements from ones uncle or aunt.
Engineering is the application of science and maths, using a subject in an applied manner provides more challenges than studying a standalone academic subject. A mathematician can explain a triple integral, but an engineer must be able to understand the physical concepts, use the maths and interpret it to the real world. At Loughborough engineering degrees had considerable more hours on the course than the other subjects.
Airlines disregard engineering, five of my course colleagues were part sponsored by airlines. My own forthcoming airline interview was gained on the grounds of my engineering background. Please before posting base your statements on personal experience, or fact not hear-say statements from ones uncle or aunt.
Last edited by portsharbourflyer; 10th Nov 2005 at 22:03.
Gotta agree with portsharbourflyer here, Danny you sound like youve got no idea what you're talking about. Dont know if you genuinely believe that engineering is so much below and worth less than the other subjects you mention, or if you're just trying to wind people up? I hope its the latter for your sake.
CheerfulWannabe, no you're not overqualified, but be prepared to explain why you wanted to do a PhD rather than actually start flying and gaining experience.
CheerfulWannabe, no you're not overqualified, but be prepared to explain why you wanted to do a PhD rather than actually start flying and gaining experience.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: North
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
1pudding1 thanks that is what I was thinking myself. "Why did you do PhD and not go straight for flying?"
Manchester: my post was not attention seeking. I have seen many of my friends with done PhD that could NOT find job in industry since they are overqualified. I will not go into your comments about the knowledge of and MSc.eng. (mechanical engineering). Due to the problems my friends had in industry I was posing the question as it is perhaps even more relevant if I will go outside the industry.
Thanks for support people!
Manchester: my post was not attention seeking. I have seen many of my friends with done PhD that could NOT find job in industry since they are overqualified. I will not go into your comments about the knowledge of and MSc.eng. (mechanical engineering). Due to the problems my friends had in industry I was posing the question as it is perhaps even more relevant if I will go outside the industry.
Thanks for support people!
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Domaine de la Romanee-Conti
Posts: 1,691
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes
on
1 Post
Bah humbug
speaking as a professional pilot, who dropped out of university so badly I'm banned from re-enrolling even to finish off my mediocre arts degree ...
... and thinking about a job interview I did a couple of years ago, where final selection came down to me and another bloke with similar hours who had (I sh!t you not) a PhD in nuclear physics ...
guess who got the job?
Me
... because I had no notice period at present employer and the other guy did.
There are about 990000000 other things more important to potential employers, than your other non-aviation-relevant qualifications from your previous careers
speaking as a professional pilot, who dropped out of university so badly I'm banned from re-enrolling even to finish off my mediocre arts degree ...
... and thinking about a job interview I did a couple of years ago, where final selection came down to me and another bloke with similar hours who had (I sh!t you not) a PhD in nuclear physics ...
guess who got the job?
Me
... because I had no notice period at present employer and the other guy did.
There are about 990000000 other things more important to potential employers, than your other non-aviation-relevant qualifications from your previous careers
Intelligent Idiot
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Cleethorpes, UK
Age: 66
Posts: 182
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I agree with portsharbourflyer too.
I dont have a degree in engineering but did a Btech in Engineering technology, a far lesser qualification
It consisted of Maths, Physics, Electrics, Mechanics and Dynamics.
Never saw a hammer or spanner once during the 2 years I was studying but did test metals for elasticity, bending and shear and other associated disciplines which some seem to think isnt academic.
I am now a humble Reactor operator because of my inferior brain power.
My Motto?
I'm not very clevah but I can lift 'eavy fings
I dont have a degree in engineering but did a Btech in Engineering technology, a far lesser qualification
It consisted of Maths, Physics, Electrics, Mechanics and Dynamics.
Never saw a hammer or spanner once during the 2 years I was studying but did test metals for elasticity, bending and shear and other associated disciplines which some seem to think isnt academic.
I am now a humble Reactor operator because of my inferior brain power.
My Motto?
I'm not very clevah but I can lift 'eavy fings
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: england
Posts: 109
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Damn, i cannot understand some people, i think you will find that engineering may consist of physics and mathematics, but in engineering you will not come across anything that is contained in the pure mathematics or pure physics degree. It is like saying say you did a degree in psychology, you had to work out percentages .......... hardly solid mathematics is it. most subjects contain sections from other studies, however the physics you encounterd in engineering is nothing to that of a pure physics degree. Simple fact.
Also the guy with the Btech, i think that is a college degree? which require enterance requirements of something such as 4 C\'s or D\'s at O level?
Inferior brain power? you said it.
Also the guy with the Btech, i think that is a college degree? which require enterance requirements of something such as 4 C\'s or D\'s at O level?
Inferior brain power? you said it.
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Hampshire
Age: 47
Posts: 66
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Danny M,
Utter Bollocks!!! What sort of career would having a degree in pure maths give you!! I am an engineer, I have a degree in engineering, Aerospace engineering. It was bloody difficult, and got me a job which is paying for my training, where I can also afford to have a life outside of flying too. Why don't you get with the real worl, nobody cares what you think, and grow up. You are opbviously only a nipper and one day you'll realise that qualifications, especially in pure maths mean diddly squat. In answer to the original post no qualification is too much and every little helps.
WAG
Utter Bollocks!!! What sort of career would having a degree in pure maths give you!! I am an engineer, I have a degree in engineering, Aerospace engineering. It was bloody difficult, and got me a job which is paying for my training, where I can also afford to have a life outside of flying too. Why don't you get with the real worl, nobody cares what you think, and grow up. You are opbviously only a nipper and one day you'll realise that qualifications, especially in pure maths mean diddly squat. In answer to the original post no qualification is too much and every little helps.
WAG
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: england
Posts: 109
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Refrain from the bad language, i think you will find that employers look for the best education in a pilot thats possible, and that a neuclear physics degree is a lot more impressive than a BTEC in engineering studies, or eaven a PhD in it. I plan to study medicine, and then apply for sponsorship, and i know that i will be a lot better off taking medicine that engineering!
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Leicestershire
Posts: 44
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
danny_manchester, you have almost always to pass personality tests as part of selection to ensure you can work in co-operation with your flight crew partner, flight attendants, dispatchers etc. From the sounds of your posts it sounds like you generally believe that those taking engineering degrees are intellectually inferior to you. This attitude will therefore probably carry into how you act towards said people and so how are you going to treat an Avionics engineer come to fix your AP? I'd like to see the panic on your face when he fails to help you as you have treated him as an inferior, and your left with a plane full of rowdy holiday makers August Bank Holiday at Heathrow with a slot to keep! This of course if an airline actually wishes to employ someone with such a pompus attitude, that will be glaringly obvious from your personality assesment.
I looked at the careers dept at Loughborough University what the employment figures were for last year (loughborough has the second highest graduate employment rate). Engineering 68% employment, Sciences 60%. Enough said. Oh and tell me one airline that specifies a science degree, most barely specify A-Level subjects.
I like the fact you are going to apply for sponsorship, from whom may I ask?
I looked at the careers dept at Loughborough University what the employment figures were for last year (loughborough has the second highest graduate employment rate). Engineering 68% employment, Sciences 60%. Enough said. Oh and tell me one airline that specifies a science degree, most barely specify A-Level subjects.
I like the fact you are going to apply for sponsorship, from whom may I ask?
Intelligent Idiot
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Cleethorpes, UK
Age: 66
Posts: 182
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well Danny_Manchester, you are partly correct.
Btech is equivalent to 2 A levels and is not a degree of any sort.
Couple of things, I used that to show you that a degree in engineering is indeed an academic subject and as maths and physics featured heavily in that 'lowly' qualification it is only reasonable to expect those subjects to feature at an advanced level in a degree course.
As to qualifications, I did my O and A levels at a time when they actually meant something and judging by your spelling, are you sure a career in medicine would be wise? I wouldnt want a prescription from you as I couldnt be sure I was getting the right treatment.
You really do seem to have a holier than thou attitude and I am sure it will win you a whole lot of no friends as you progress through life.
You know next to nothing about anyone on here yet you make sweeping judgements of abilities and intellect.
You really must be superior.
Btech is equivalent to 2 A levels and is not a degree of any sort.
Couple of things, I used that to show you that a degree in engineering is indeed an academic subject and as maths and physics featured heavily in that 'lowly' qualification it is only reasonable to expect those subjects to feature at an advanced level in a degree course.
As to qualifications, I did my O and A levels at a time when they actually meant something and judging by your spelling, are you sure a career in medicine would be wise? I wouldnt want a prescription from you as I couldnt be sure I was getting the right treatment.
You really do seem to have a holier than thou attitude and I am sure it will win you a whole lot of no friends as you progress through life.
You know next to nothing about anyone on here yet you make sweeping judgements of abilities and intellect.
You really must be superior.
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Manchester, UK
Posts: 129
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Danny_manchester,
What a numpty.
From this thread, it is obvious that you do not know your facts. You could have the best degree in the world with the best classification, but nothing will help you with an attitude like yours. The fact is, with an attitude like yours you will never make it as flight crew.
Its a BEng by the way, and I'm not showing off, I had to work damn hard to get that degree and classification.
POL
and i know that i will be a lot better off taking medicine that engineering
From this thread, it is obvious that you do not know your facts. You could have the best degree in the world with the best classification, but nothing will help you with an attitude like yours. The fact is, with an attitude like yours you will never make it as flight crew.
Its a BEng by the way, and I'm not showing off, I had to work damn hard to get that degree and classification.
POL