Training in Spain
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It would appear that way wouldn't it? 
that message was almost too slick, looks like the work of a marketing professional, apologies if that isn't the case.
Still looking for answers for a couple of the following questions:
The type of aircraft you learn to do your PPL in, does learning in a Cessna 172 preferential to a 152 or is it all the same ball game, advantages, disadvantages if any?
Also, if anyone who has just finished their PPL or knows of any now redundant Oxford PPL CD-ROM's for sale I'd appreciate it if you sent me an Personal Message and lets do business.
Stephen
that message was almost too slick, looks like the work of a marketing professional, apologies if that isn't the case.Still looking for answers for a couple of the following questions:
The type of aircraft you learn to do your PPL in, does learning in a Cessna 172 preferential to a 152 or is it all the same ball game, advantages, disadvantages if any?
Also, if anyone who has just finished their PPL or knows of any now redundant Oxford PPL CD-ROM's for sale I'd appreciate it if you sent me an Personal Message and lets do business.
Stephen
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I too am starting the process of looking at schools and deciding on a route. I think I'm edging towards a structured full-time modular route. I just don't see how to justify the extra money that an integrated course costs.
I haven't really done a huge amount of research yet so it is early days yet, but one plan I am looking at is as follows:
PPL at Edinburgh Flying Club - not the cheapest but great experience flying from a busy international airport.
Hour build in the UK/US - not sure where or how to do this, perhaps doing a night + imc rating at the same time?
ATPL theory at Bristol GS - everyone says that they are great and from what I seen of them they look a good choice.
CPL + IR at Blackbushe airport with cabair. Its very close to my parents house so free lodgings, also I've heard the school is pretty good.
Anyone have any better ideas?
Any advice welcome.
I haven't really done a huge amount of research yet so it is early days yet, but one plan I am looking at is as follows:
PPL at Edinburgh Flying Club - not the cheapest but great experience flying from a busy international airport.
Hour build in the UK/US - not sure where or how to do this, perhaps doing a night + imc rating at the same time?
ATPL theory at Bristol GS - everyone says that they are great and from what I seen of them they look a good choice.
CPL + IR at Blackbushe airport with cabair. Its very close to my parents house so free lodgings, also I've heard the school is pretty good.
Anyone have any better ideas?
Any advice welcome.
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Blinkz
You certainly seem to have a good game plan, only one thing I would perhaps change:
At the PPL stage I would argue that you won't gain anything from flying out of a busy international airport but would lose a lot. Landings are expensive at BAA airports (and you'll use a lot when in the circuit) and you'll spend a long time burning cash at the hold or in an orbit letting all the big traffic in.
There is plenty of time to mix it with the big boys and exposure to this in your hour building would be good.
So where for a PPL? Personally I recommend Highland flying school at Inverness or Tayside at Perth or IMHO the best - Far North in Wick. Either way only go somewhere which has a landing card, isn't in class D airspace and isn't too busy.
Cheers
SK
You certainly seem to have a good game plan, only one thing I would perhaps change:
PPL at Edinburgh Flying Club - not the cheapest but great experience flying from a busy international airport.
There is plenty of time to mix it with the big boys and exposure to this in your hour building would be good.
So where for a PPL? Personally I recommend Highland flying school at Inverness or Tayside at Perth or IMHO the best - Far North in Wick. Either way only go somewhere which has a landing card, isn't in class D airspace and isn't too busy.
Cheers
SK
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Naples or EFT
Just a quick one... i've come down to the choice of either Naples or EFT, fort pierce. In my eyes an easy decision, at EFT you have to do the ATPL exams with distance learning from Bristol GS. Seems a bit silly moving to the states, spend a month or so getting your PPL then spend 6 months locked in your room studying stuff sent from the UK where you've just left! Also, Naples is cheaper and sounds like a nicer place to be.
J.
J.
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I've now looked more into Flybypilot's profile and see he is a flight instructor on the South Coast. Essentially, thanks for adding to the thread but it was started a reference tool for people starting out, not for training instructors who are bored because the adverse weather conditions have grounded them to advertise thier school.
You all may interested in this comprehensive list I found form the JAA website.
http://www.jaa.nl/licensing/fto.html
Funny how both myself and Jimbo have both shortlisted Naples and EFT isn't it. Still think Angle City Flyers are worth a look however, California isn't hampered with hurricances and other low-brow weather and fat Americans holidaying there.
You all may interested in this comprehensive list I found form the JAA website.
http://www.jaa.nl/licensing/fto.html
Funny how both myself and Jimbo have both shortlisted Naples and EFT isn't it. Still think Angle City Flyers are worth a look however, California isn't hampered with hurricances and other low-brow weather and fat Americans holidaying there.
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As everyone has guessed FlybyPilot must be someone working for EPTA, however two points I would make in relation to their contribution, Andy Hogg may no longer be CFI at EPTA but he is without doubt one of the most professional and knowledgeable instructors around and if FlyByPilot is the work of Liz Mace then she still has not come to terms with the concept of spellchecker.
Rob
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What about Delta Academy, I have looked into them greatly. I have also visited the school and the facilities seem second to none. Brand new aircraft, halls style housing, shop, sims etc. They even have a study area where you can turn up and speak to an instructor if you need help. The last price I got was around $49,000 for the internship programme. Some of the training is conducted in the UK and Sanford is a major charter airport.
I am also looking at EFT and they look really professional. Is the EFT training highly regarded?. Also, Oxford do a training link up with a flying school in Pafos, Cyprus. If you do a google search you will be able to find it. The price is around Ģ30,000.
I am also looking at EFT and they look really professional. Is the EFT training highly regarded?. Also, Oxford do a training link up with a flying school in Pafos, Cyprus. If you do a google search you will be able to find it. The price is around Ģ30,000.
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Can anyone give any advice about ComAir? I had quite a look through the archives and found that there were more pros than cons but to be fair if you have a bad experience you'll tell 20 people, if you have a good one you'll tell 1 other person, maybe thats the script there.
But whatever it seems that ComAir is set up for FAA primarilly and JAA as an after thought, maybe I'm being harsh here but thats certainly what I can find form on here
Also I've asked a question about learning on certina types of aircraft, is there a benefit to learning in a C172 or a Warrior over a C152 for example?
But whatever it seems that ComAir is set up for FAA primarilly and JAA as an after thought, maybe I'm being harsh here but thats certainly what I can find form on here
Also I've asked a question about learning on certina types of aircraft, is there a benefit to learning in a C172 or a Warrior over a C152 for example?
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I'm an Independant FAA instructor in Long Beach, CA. I have previously recommended Angel City Flyers, due to the drive, dedication and enthusiasm of the Owner - giving the students the previously mentioned advantages of going small and intimate, over big and somewhat anonymous. I have also been previously invited to work with them on two occasions.
That said, I would like to address your question of Cessna 172 vs Cessna 152, from the US perspective.
The advantages a Cessna 152 have over a Cessna 172 are: cost and simplicity. From $60 -$72. It is a great airplane to learn initially, however is limited by useful load, and range. I personally wouldn't recommend it after Private Pilot.
The major disadvantage of a Cessna 152, is that all of them will be at least 23 years old, have unreliable avionics, most will have a prolonged flight training history, and the mechanics are probably playing catch-up to any number of minor squawks
Like the Cessna 152, the advantages of the 172 are easy to fly, (but hard to fly well) It too is forgiving. My opinion of the older models of 172 is similar to that of the 152s, except now you can take 2 possibly 3 people with you and perhaps go an extra 150 miles. The cost of older 172s are not far off from 152. Anywhere from an extra $8 to $15. For training I see no benefit over a Cessna 152, unless you have been paired with another student that can observe from the backseat, or it has been fitted with newer avionics.
1998 and newer Cessna 172 will be either an R model or an S model. These are fuel injected, excellently equipped, and great for Instrument Ratings, and Professional Pilot Training. More often than not they will have very reliable radios, autopilot, IFR GPS, some even with a Multi Function Display (2003+) These animals run between $90 - $115 per hour depending where you find them. Some Flight Schools will use a simulator to offset the additional cost of the newer 172s.
With my experience as an instructor, I have found the student that spends a little extra on the nicer equipment will be more focused, with less distractions and stress added to the flight lesson, and will remember a lot more respectively, cutting down the time required.
Almost goes without saying, but the choice of airplane becomes irrelevent if you don't fly with a knowledgable, motivated and experienced instructor, thats makes the best use out of the time in the airplane etc.
Hope this is fair and helpful
PJ
That said, I would like to address your question of Cessna 172 vs Cessna 152, from the US perspective.
The advantages a Cessna 152 have over a Cessna 172 are: cost and simplicity. From $60 -$72. It is a great airplane to learn initially, however is limited by useful load, and range. I personally wouldn't recommend it after Private Pilot.
The major disadvantage of a Cessna 152, is that all of them will be at least 23 years old, have unreliable avionics, most will have a prolonged flight training history, and the mechanics are probably playing catch-up to any number of minor squawks
Like the Cessna 152, the advantages of the 172 are easy to fly, (but hard to fly well) It too is forgiving. My opinion of the older models of 172 is similar to that of the 152s, except now you can take 2 possibly 3 people with you and perhaps go an extra 150 miles. The cost of older 172s are not far off from 152. Anywhere from an extra $8 to $15. For training I see no benefit over a Cessna 152, unless you have been paired with another student that can observe from the backseat, or it has been fitted with newer avionics.
1998 and newer Cessna 172 will be either an R model or an S model. These are fuel injected, excellently equipped, and great for Instrument Ratings, and Professional Pilot Training. More often than not they will have very reliable radios, autopilot, IFR GPS, some even with a Multi Function Display (2003+) These animals run between $90 - $115 per hour depending where you find them. Some Flight Schools will use a simulator to offset the additional cost of the newer 172s.
With my experience as an instructor, I have found the student that spends a little extra on the nicer equipment will be more focused, with less distractions and stress added to the flight lesson, and will remember a lot more respectively, cutting down the time required.
Almost goes without saying, but the choice of airplane becomes irrelevent if you don't fly with a knowledgable, motivated and experienced instructor, thats makes the best use out of the time in the airplane etc.
Hope this is fair and helpful
PJ
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My opinion
Hi there scameron77. I am in the same situation you are. I spent 4 agonising years working in the investment industry (as a trader) to earn the money I needed to fly. I finally have it. So recently I did exactly what you did and researched into various flight schools, I went to the flyer show at LHR talked to BA, Virgin, Easy Jet Captains, also went round the UK visiting different FTOs. Also went to Spain and delta connection in Florida. Also talked to some of my friends who are flyboys in various airlines around the world.
Heres my opinion. (Please note there are people who are going to disagree).
I decided that the integrated route was best for me and that Jerez or OAT. And I finally think I have decided to go to Jerez. I agree with the opinion that there is no difference in modular or Integrated but there is a huge impact on your future earnings. I disagree with the comment made on some of the threads that we fly jets for the shear love of it. Thats loser talk. I want to do it for the love of it and for the money. I know pilots that started flying at 27 and are now 40 and are millionaires (I am in my early twenties).
If you want to earn the big bucks and for the love of it you got to have a good base. A good base unfortunately includes an integrated approach because the big bucks are made working for the big airlines (BA, Virgin etc). And these airlines either require you to have trained in an integrated environment for a new pilot.
If you want to do it for the love go and do the modular approach and fly 737s for the rest of your life earning pittance .
The above opinions are given by experienced training captains and current line pilots for BA, Virgin, Cathay, UA and AA pilots who I know.
Its there opinion and mine:
If you want to go to the US go to Delta connection or EFT.
In the UK go to OAT, Jerez.
P.S Please note this post is not meant to offend anyone and my opinions are my own
Heres my opinion. (Please note there are people who are going to disagree).
I decided that the integrated route was best for me and that Jerez or OAT. And I finally think I have decided to go to Jerez. I agree with the opinion that there is no difference in modular or Integrated but there is a huge impact on your future earnings. I disagree with the comment made on some of the threads that we fly jets for the shear love of it. Thats loser talk. I want to do it for the love of it and for the money. I know pilots that started flying at 27 and are now 40 and are millionaires (I am in my early twenties).
If you want to earn the big bucks and for the love of it you got to have a good base. A good base unfortunately includes an integrated approach because the big bucks are made working for the big airlines (BA, Virgin etc). And these airlines either require you to have trained in an integrated environment for a new pilot.
If you want to do it for the love go and do the modular approach and fly 737s for the rest of your life earning pittance .
The above opinions are given by experienced training captains and current line pilots for BA, Virgin, Cathay, UA and AA pilots who I know.
Its there opinion and mine:
If you want to go to the US go to Delta connection or EFT.
In the UK go to OAT, Jerez.
P.S Please note this post is not meant to offend anyone and my opinions are my own
Last edited by 747 Truth; 15th Sep 2004 at 07:26.
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747 truth,
You mention Oxford and Jerez for integrated training. No mention of Cabair.
I'm thinking of them so was wondering if you had any experiences with them I should know about before I sign the dotted line.
Ratpup
You mention Oxford and Jerez for integrated training. No mention of Cabair.
I'm thinking of them so was wondering if you had any experiences with them I should know about before I sign the dotted line.
Ratpup
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Hey
Hey Captain Ratpup,
I had a friend who did a PPL (and so forth) and subsequently at Cabair. I have just asked him about his opinions.
Quote " Very professional outfit with experienced instructors"
He is know flying Airbus's for Emirates!.......
I had a friend who did a PPL (and so forth) and subsequently at Cabair. I have just asked him about his opinions.
Quote " Very professional outfit with experienced instructors"
He is know flying Airbus's for Emirates!.......
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Please note there are people who are going to disagree
And these airlines either require you to have trained in an integrated environment for a new pilot
If you want to do it for the love go and do the modular approach and fly 737s for the rest of your life earning pittance
.
I'm not saying there's anything wrong with choosing Integrated if that's what you want to do, I just can't believe how many misconceptions you seem desperate to perpetuate. Apologies scameron77 for taking the thread slightly off course.
PW
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I told you that its my opinion and no they are not misconceptions.....
Let me guess your either taking the modular route or you are a pilot getting payed pittance....whatever buddy.....
Say nothing becasue you know i am right..
Dam straight i will be playing the nepetism card...i have people using nepetism to get over me.. i have stopped caring...use and abuse i say...Its not what you know its who you know....
Only the truth buddy.... if you cant hack it leave the flying and earning business to us!
More enjoyable than being wealty?...enjoyment comes from being wealthy!.... you must live on another plant...
This was not my intention..if you disagree that s fine with me i did not mean for them to be derogatory and if you took it that way then i am sorry and sory to all those thousands of people but the bottom line is if you fly professonally why not fly and be rich?
Let me guess your either taking the modular route or you are a pilot getting payed pittance....whatever buddy.....
I'm flabbergasted, I really don't know what to say
BA 747 when you leave Jerez with 250 hours?
I just can't believe how many misconceptions you seem desperate to perpetuate
Ok, they may not be millionaires, but to a lot of people having an enjoyable life outside of work is more important than being wealthy
but I find your comments hugely derogatory to the thousands of people who find pleasure from flying
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747 Truth,
Get rich being a pilot? I don't think so in any way, shape or form. It will not happen. Of all the major professions piloting must be the worst paid BY FAR relative to the amount of effort and responsibility involved. Sad truth is that all pilots no matter what level they are at, even if they have not aquired training debts will only ever achive a fairly low salary. Bear in mind that once property prices are factored into a pilots income, especially in the South East, 40/50k (which is the most you'll ever get realistically) is a low salary.
B
Get rich being a pilot? I don't think so in any way, shape or form. It will not happen. Of all the major professions piloting must be the worst paid BY FAR relative to the amount of effort and responsibility involved. Sad truth is that all pilots no matter what level they are at, even if they have not aquired training debts will only ever achive a fairly low salary. Bear in mind that once property prices are factored into a pilots income, especially in the South East, 40/50k (which is the most you'll ever get realistically) is a low salary.
B
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I think not
Biscuit,
I respect your opinion and I thank you for it. I dont agree with your opinion but I respect it.
Please keep thinking the way you do because I know you will never ever be a competitor for the jobs I am going for and will get. I know pilots that earn double what you stated (in some cases triple) all because of sacrifice, dedication and hardwork (so what if it costs a marriage or some other material thing).
T
I respect your opinion and I thank you for it. I dont agree with your opinion but I respect it.
Please keep thinking the way you do because I know you will never ever be a competitor for the jobs I am going for and will get. I know pilots that earn double what you stated (in some cases triple) all because of sacrifice, dedication and hardwork (so what if it costs a marriage or some other material thing).
T
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Oh my God, we have a time-traveller from the eighties!!
Though I hesitate to offer advice to one who is so clearly a Master of the Universe, 747 truth, may I respectfully suggest that you dispense with the shoulder-pads during training? it can be very cramped in a light aircraft.
PS
Just to show there are no hard feelings.....
A present for you. Like yourself, it is a Boring Tool
PPS
In the unlikely event that a Celestial Being such as thou ever has to lower yourself to writing a CV, (like the rest of us worms), don't forget to use Spoll Chocker.
Though I hesitate to offer advice to one who is so clearly a Master of the Universe, 747 truth, may I respectfully suggest that you dispense with the shoulder-pads during training? it can be very cramped in a light aircraft.
PS
Just to show there are no hard feelings.....
A present for you. Like yourself, it is a Boring Tool
PPS
In the unlikely event that a Celestial Being such as thou ever has to lower yourself to writing a CV, (like the rest of us worms), don't forget to use Spoll Chocker.
Last edited by cumulus; 15th Sep 2004 at 20:57.
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40/50k (which is the most you'll ever get realistically) is a low salary.
Is that really the case? That's come as a bit of a shock to me. Why are published salaries for SFOs and Captains so much higher? I know it's not all about the money but i do have plans for the future!