Training in Spain

[Straightandlevel80kt]

It would be helpful if you could say where your brother is located.

[murdock]

Location aint too much of an issue as he is willing to travel to where ever.
But if it helps, he lives in Ireland, but goes to colllege in London, so he is over there for most of the year.

[madman1145]

Hi murdock;

When I was flying in Spain, we where tolled that Spanish PPL(A) exams are done in Spanish only, no English ..

If it has to be fast, I know of a Danish guy that have just completed his PPL(A) on Malta in I believe was approx. 2 weeks - do take into account, he is a gliderpilot so he could subtract 10 hours in the PPL(A) training ..
Otherwise, look on the otherside of the Atlantic like Florida, it should be possible to complete a JAA PPL(A) within one month overthere ..

By the way, Top-Fly are located in Sabadell, Barcelona's 2nd. airport for the smaller traffic like VFR and heli's - nice airport ..

--------------------------------------------------------

Addition - just saw your profile murdock, sorry you are in Florida so you allready know it - my bad ..

[scameron77]

Definitive Flight School String - UK, Aus, USA, Spain

Ladies and Gents,

I have decided to start this string to get a definitive answer on flight schools. I have recently came into a bit of money that will allow me to do a residential course.

I would readily welcome advice from those who have completed or who are already at an advanced stage in the process. Essentially I'm looking for one obviously has a good atmosphere, patient instructors, good facilities, job prospects, etc.

I'd be interested to find out if places like Jerez who are training the current Britannia pilots are considered a good place to go because of this? Will airlines look favourably or possibly hire people coming through the same system as their own sponsored pilots?

I would however look at distance learning if anyone has any ideas and also maybe look to group together with anyone else in a similar situation to negotiate a better deal with the bargaining power it facilitates.

My background is that I sat RAF aptitude tests 2 years ago and passed for fast jet but failed officer selection. I also applied for Britannia and got to the first round but failed on their aptitude tests wheich were quite different with no reliance on hand-eye co-ordination. I have done a couple of hours so far but thats it.

Essentially I'm in a dilema, I currently live in London and was contemplating London Metropolitan University, its £5,200 rent and living expenses on top of the course fees and I don't know the quality of the course and how it compares.

Another option is my uncle lives in Cairns beside the Airport, rent free and nice weather, and I would be interested if anyone has or knows of the calibre of flight schools out there.

Of course everyone knows about USA for value for money especially in Florida and California but what about Michigan University? Anyone know of good reports of worthwhile schemes. ComAir or whatever its called now? etc.

And finally Spain, with Jerez and some of the others dotted about. What the opinions?

I appreciate any help given as it will hopefully aid my potential career immeasurably. Thanks in advance.

Stephen

[stewpot007]

Hi scameron77,

I am in a similar situation I will have around the £70k mark to play with but after months of research i do not think the full time approach is worth the money and will go the modular route.

Full Time
£60K plus 20% contingency + living expenses = more than my budget + no money for a type rating should it come to that

Modular
Half the cost plus could pay for type rating or use the leverage of paying for one to secure a job should it come to that.

At the moment I am deciding between: -

Naples
Redhill Aviation
Bournmouth - PAT
Bournmouth - BCFT

Of course you can chop and change to lower the cost by combining all the above FTO's in any combination and i am verging on the edge of the following: -

f-ATPL Route

Naples – PPL, Night IMC $8260 (£4,549)
Naples Hour Build – 50 Hours $3200 (£1,762)
Another 50 hours required (UK whilst full time groundschool) £?
ATPL Full Time Ground School – Bournemouth BCFT £4000
CPL £4980 - Bournemouth BCFT
IR £11,725 - Bournemouth BCFT
JOCC £1,995.00 - Bournemouth BCFT
MCC £2,820.00 - Bournemouth BCFT

My final thought and from what i can gather from comments on here from the Pro's is do the training in the UK in an environment where opportunities arise like Bournemouth Airport.

I am interested in what you said about combining spend to negotiate a better deal, you can PM me on that.
I'll be looking to start Nov/Dec/Jan/Feb.

All the best
S

[scameron77]

Homework

Thanks for that buddy,

Certainly food for thought although the London Metropolitan University option is pretty appealing to me in my current situation, but hey, I'm living in Londona and have a lease running.

I would be interested however if there is anyone out there who has already done the leg work and compiled all the necessary homework on some flight schools. Stuff like Pros and Cons, what you've seen or had first hand knowledge of rather than conjecture. Basically I'm looking for an easy option, don't see the point of doing the digging if its already been done and the knowledge is already on here. If people can offer links to other strings on PPRUNE that go onto this sort of thing all the better.

The ones I'm thinking about include:

Stapleford
Cabair
Oxford
University of Michigan
ComAir
Jerez (formerly BAe)
London Met University
Any other not listed but with good credentials

and finally whoever CYC McAlpine use to train their mob (New Zealand I think)

Like to put together a little matrx like they do in Which? magazine, showing each one and what it offers and where it falls down

Post away if you have the knowledge, and lets make this the one-stop shop for anyone in future.

Stephen

[Penworth]

Basically I'm looking for an easy option, don't see the point of doing the digging if its already been done and the knowledge is already on here.

The knowledge is already on here. Try using the search function. It should help answer most of your questions regarding the schools you're interested in.

PW

[Bail out]

Guys,

my advice would be to speak to Liz Mace at EPTA (Cabair) in Bournemouth. Out of my class of 10 all except one guy who is just waiting to start a type rating with BACX have got some kind of aviation work.

Also best allow for a SSTR i'e Gecat, Astraues etc.

All the best with the training - its a good crack

[Dan 98]

Hi Scameron,
I'm in your situation as well, I will have the funds to just do an integrated course early in 2005 and have visited Cabair where they seemed pretty friendly, however they do want your money remember!! I have actually decided since starting my PPL in Norwich, thought I'd make a start to make my mind up, that I'm going the modular route. I agree with the other guy who's responded it's about £20k cheaper and thats with a FI course, so at least you can fly and earn something if it proves hard to find employemt at the end. My PPL Instructor who has just got his IR to do really recommended Bristol GS www.bristol.gs they do a distance learning course for the Ground exams and seem to have a good pass rate. He also did his PPL in the states and didn't recommend it, he needed extra hours when he returned to the UK to get confident, however I face a dilemna myself with winter coming where I could be making little progress if the weathers in the UK, I can see me going to the US to finish it off. I know this isn't much help as I'm in the same boat as you and you want to hear from people who have already done it. For what it's worth I've also heard AFT in Exeter is very good for your IR.
Good luck

Dan

[scameron77]

UK vs. Rest of the World

Thing is I want it done and dusted ASAP. Plus $1.85 to the pound is also a nice little reason. Looked at Western Michigan University, all ex-BA pilots doing the course but its over 4 years form what I could see. Pain in the arse really.

With respect to the earlier email posted on here suggesting that I do a search to find info, thats fair enough, but the whole idea of this string if so it becomes a one-stop-shop for all relevent flight school information for anyone visiting PPRUNE. It goes without saying that I can look for it but rather have real experiences logged on here so this string can grow. If the whole point of this discussion is to tell people to look elsewhere what is the point. Someone has to stop at some point and collate the info and I'm suggesting that with all of your help I'm more than happy to do so.

Stephen

[minus273]

Hey there

You could always look at Moncton Flight College in New Brunswick Canada. Only 5-6 hrs aways from the UK, equally good exchange rate.

You would walk away with both Canadian and JAA qualifications. I believe they use a company in Bournemouth for their JAA IR.

They are nice people, the JAA course was being set up by a guy that used to be at West Michigan, Gus McDonald.

They also have a good system with your money, they operate your account like a bank, so you only need to put the money in as required.

They have been around for about 75 years so must be doing something right.

-273

[scameron77]

Western Michigan

Right, where do I start, busy weekend for me, managed to get a back seat ride in a Warrior with another who I got chatting to one here, Cheers Fraser, much obliged. Now convinced me more than ever to pursue with this, warts and all.

I've found out some stuff over the weekend which I feel I should share - maybe preaching to the converted here but I have to take stance that there are people with similar limited knowledge to myself firstly. Choosing a flight school look for hidden extras such as exams, landing fees, etc. they mount up.

Secondly, from that I can gather the FAA seems to be held in low esteem in the UK. Example I was given is that the airspace here is busy and in the states it wide open, therefore US trained JAA PPL graduates returning to the UK are very frightened of control zones around airports, the amount of radio traffic etc. it was alien to them and frightened them a bit. However $1.83 to the pound is still bloody tempting.

Advice was given was to get a deal where you maybe get 5 lessons plus a logbook and other little add-ons for £500 (lots of places offer it) and get a fee in the UK, it will stand you in good stead apparently.

WMU

Some good strings I found

http://www.pprune.com/forums/showthr...&highlight=wmu

and

http://www.pprune.com/forums/showthr...&highlight=wmu

I have just phoned Western Michigan to clear up a lot of conjecture and rumours on here and can pass on the following after speaking to Rob (very abrupt and didn't say goodbye at the end of the call but c'est la vie):

1. WMU will not be running JAA courses from now on, reason I was given was lack of people interested to make it worthwhile.

2. FAA course is still available though and you are looking at paying $43,000 + $13,000 living expenses for the year or so. Approx £30k all in (considering you have to pay food and board anywhere you go thats not too bad - effectively £23k for the FAA full licence).

Australia

Bloody colonials use a different accreditation system too, the Oz APTL means you are restricted to Oz airlines and airlines flying to Oz, severly restricting your options and the cost to convert to JAA is pretty restrictive. Good place to get a PPL possibly but not pursue your training unless weigh up the cons.

[craig1975]

Schools

Why are you limiting your choice to the "main stream" schools such as Cabair, OATS etc.

Although I haven't started my training yet there are a number a schools I have visited/spoken to who are very helpful and much smaller, therefore you have 1-1 training, for example Westflight at Gloustershire Airport of Bristol Flight Training Centre.

In my professoinal capacity (I work in finance) and have worked and trained with some very large and also small organisations, the end result is the same, but the smaller organisation will give you a much better training.

Whilst I am not saying that OATS etc do not give good training, they obviously must, but look at other options.

As for training in the states - remember that british airlines have shown a tendancy to prefer british organisations, therefore look at schools that the airlines use themselves such as WM.

Just a thought.

[scameron77]

Well I suppose its becuase they already have everything in place, there is a degree of consistancy and its a recognisable name for the CV.

I was very impressed with the guys at westflight, but I'd like a base, not having to move here and there every so often for the next stage of my modular course is what I'm looking for.

I firmly agree with you about the smaller options but I am looking for, what is for me, the 'safe' option.

WM is also out of the window unless I fancy the FAA course, but it gets a bad rap from what I can see.

[Mordacai]

Hi Guys,

If you were to consider Florida, Its well worth having a look at EFT's APP program. www.flyeft.com

Prices are very attractive, and instuction is superb, I have personally completed CPL, IR, AND FIC courses, all with first time passes, and thoroughly recommend it. As I understand, when you graduate from the APP program, you will be dual JAA, and FAA qualified (including instructor ratings). There are plently of employment opportunities, and with the good weather you can build up a lot of hours quickly.

There is plenty of busy airspace in the area, so no need to worry about being confident about UK airspace when you return.



QUOTE ; As for training in the states - remember that british airlines have shown a tendancy to prefer british organisations, therefore look at schools that the airlines use themselves such as WM. CLOSE QUOTE.



I dont beleive this at all - perhaps you can provide some sort of examples??????? Talk to the numerous EFT graduates who have found employment in the UK in the last 12 months, they dont seem to have had this problem.


M.

P.S. I originally did my PPL with Stapleford, they were OK, but I DID feel like a number in the sausage machine, so I took my business elsewhere.

[scameron77]

Well after that plug for EFT's APP scheme I thought I'd add what else I've learned from scouring the internet for 7 hours today, God I am doing some amount of digging! Benefits with a number of these are in a lot of cases both JAA and FAA qualifications so a few more options open upon completion.

I'd really appreciate if some of the more long-in-the-tooth members of the forum looked at these and came back with what I should look for, i.e. Are the types of aircraft on offer at one school better for learning and future development? EFA seems to conduct most of its training in 172's is this benefical over 152's?Are the time scales shown appropriate and achievable? Basically anthing glaringly wrong to a novice like myslef that takes in marketing spiel.

*************************************************
EFT APP Scheme

http://www.flyeft.com/app/detail_app.html

Cost: $54,995 = £30,000 approx. + all sorts of extras totalling another £2,000 off the top of my head

*************************************************
International Flight Training Academy

http://www.goifta.com/courses.htm click on the King Air button

Cost: Applied on the 17th for a personal quote, will post when I have it.

*************************************************
Delta Academy Internship

http://www.deltaconnectionacademy.co...students1.html

Cost: I haven't applied for a price, if anyone knows the current cost please share it.

*************************************************
Naples Air Centre Career Pilot

http://naples-air-center.com/career_pilot.htm
http://naples-air-center.com/careerpilotjaafaa.htm

Cost: 52 weeks $46,059 = £25,000 approx.
Start: Jan 2005


Note: I have left out the accommodation as that is the same everywhere more or less and the conversions to GBP is at £1 = $1.85

Also interested in anyone has info on doing a FAA APTL at PAN AM (http://www.panamacademy.com/career.asp) and IFTA in Bakersfield, California (http://www.ifta.aero/training_faa.html)

I would repeat what I said earlier, if there is anyone out there interested in SERIOUSLY looking at attneding one of these schemes in the near future I woudl ask that you get in contact and we look at group negotiation.

Also I would stress that the word 'seriously' used above means NO tyre kickers, unless you are in a position to get the funding available within the time frame, are dedicated to chosing flying as your career and are willing to take the risk of the debt and distance from friends and family please don't get in touch.

Finally, apologies for the spelling, it is almost 3am and bloody Bill Gates and his Microsoft Word spellchecker has ruined me.

Also forgot to add, if anyone who has just finished their PPL or knows of any now redundant Oxford PPL CD-ROM\'s for sale I\'d appreciate it if you sent me an Personal Message and lets do business.

Del Boy

[scameron77]

More Effort Needed

In addition to my last post, I’ve done a few more searches and found out the following about two of the four schools I considered for a integrated course. As you can see, not really a ringing endorsement for either from what’s been posted on these two threads, which now leaves EFT APP and Naples Career Pilot Scheme for me anyway.

Also still awaiting clarification if learning in a C172 opposed to C152 has any distinct advantages to a learner. Also no news s yet if anyone is selling a complete set of Oxford PPL CD’s.

Also from looking through the posts made on this thread I’ve noticed that I have stuck up about 5 or 6 messages, not really helping the situation much ladies and gents. If you have anything you think relevant to the topic please feel free to add.

IFTA

http://www.pprune.com/forums/showthr...highlight=IFTA

http://www.pprune.com/forums/showthr...highlight=IFTA

Delta

http://www.pprune.com/forums/showthr...ighlight=delta

If anyone viewing thread this from either of these two schools wishes to add anything to clear up their position I’m sure every Ppruner would welcome it.

[Alex Whittingham]

Hi Scameron,

You've asked many questions, most of which have been covered before, and to some there are no definitive answers, just opinions. Since you asked, here's my opinion for your situation.

Choice 1: CTC sponsorship. If you haven't applied, apply now.
Choice 2: Integrated or structured modular? Makes no difference, buy on value for money.
Choice 3: On your own or as a group? Forget the group idea, no reputable school will discount, they know their margins and don't have a cash flow problem.

In summary and in order I would suggest:

CTC sponsorship
Jerez integrated
Cabair Cranfield Integrated
design-it-yourself modular with a UK PPL, hours building anywhere, groundschool at one of 5 or 6 reputable schools, skills test and IR the same.

[scameron77]

Thanks Alex,

Very please to receive your reply, as I am seriously considering your groundschool as I've heard many good things about it. I was also glad to see that you didn't try to sell your wares, this would have been very easy to do, and it shows me at least that you run a good reputable school and don't feel the need to get cheap shots over your competitors.

With respect to your post my position is as follows:

CTC - I'm 27 in October, ruling me out of one of the CTC Airlines (Thomson I think), so that limits me somewhat however I have since learned they take 72 bods every year and they have a pretty good reputation.

I'd be interested if anyone out there knows of people of my 'life expereice' who have went and sucessfully passed CTC, or are they after 21/22 year old graduates ready and eager and still impressionable enough to be trained in their way. I know the RAF feel that over 25 its becomes harder.

US - Still got to seriously consider the US for training mainly due to the exchange rate, it makes everything at least £6-7k cheaper than over here, whereas the US was already pretty cheap in comparison.

BAe Jerez - So temping it hurts but its so cost prohibitive and unfortunately out of my range. Don't get me wrong I've love to do it but the 90,000 euro price tag hurts.

Integrated - Toying whither to do this now as moment as I've since ruled out two of the schools in the US due to extensive research on Pprune. Granted you have to take everything on here with a pinch of salt but I'm a firm believer in where there is smoke there is fire.

Looking seriously at doing a structured modular route, for one it save about £10,000 by doing all the admin myself rather than being spoon fed - Thanks Pilot Pete for pointing that one out in a Personal Message!

Doing a lot of reading and seems to me that Angel City Fliers gets a good wrap - http://www.digital-reality.co.uk/acf/ impressed with what I've read so far.

Stephen

[Biscuit]

Now, flybypilot, you wouldn't perhaps work or have a major financial interest in EPTA perhaps?

B