JAR Licence - issuing state an issue?
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JAR Licence - issuing state an issue?
I am looking at converting my ICAO ATPL to a JAA one.
I notice that companies such as BA state that they require a UK issued JAA licence - what's this all about?
I thought that the purpose of JAA was to have a harmonised system across Europe. It seems absurd and paradoxical to differentiate between a UK issued JAA licence and any other member state issued JAA licence. Surely this is an unfair labour practice since it discriminates again pilots with licences issued by other JAA states?
Since I was not intending to do my training in the UK it concerns me that companies are discriminating against non-UK issued JAR licences.
Can you imagine how ridiculous this would be in any other field?
eg. Engineer required / must have UK issued engineering degree
I notice that companies such as BA state that they require a UK issued JAA licence - what's this all about?
I thought that the purpose of JAA was to have a harmonised system across Europe. It seems absurd and paradoxical to differentiate between a UK issued JAA licence and any other member state issued JAA licence. Surely this is an unfair labour practice since it discriminates again pilots with licences issued by other JAA states?
Since I was not intending to do my training in the UK it concerns me that companies are discriminating against non-UK issued JAR licences.
Can you imagine how ridiculous this would be in any other field?
eg. Engineer required / must have UK issued engineering degree
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IACO ATP (CPL/IR) Vs JAA fATPL
Hey Woolf.
I'm also very confused about the real difference between a UK issued JAA fATPL and one issued by the CAA of another state. Clearly it makes a diference to recruitment managers where the applicant obtained his lisence. What about all those making the perfectly reasonable decision to travel to Oz, SA or the US to get cheaper flying training?
On a finer point I'm interested to know what exactly an IACO licence is, they seem to be advertised simply as a multi CPL/IR. The issue of an ATP seems to be akin to the unfreezing of an fATPL, ie done after experience has been gained... How is the IACO ATP different from the JAA fATPL?
I'm also very confused about the real difference between a UK issued JAA fATPL and one issued by the CAA of another state. Clearly it makes a diference to recruitment managers where the applicant obtained his lisence. What about all those making the perfectly reasonable decision to travel to Oz, SA or the US to get cheaper flying training?
On a finer point I'm interested to know what exactly an IACO licence is, they seem to be advertised simply as a multi CPL/IR. The issue of an ATP seems to be akin to the unfreezing of an fATPL, ie done after experience has been gained... How is the IACO ATP different from the JAA fATPL?
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You can change the state of issue. In fact it is required for various reasons - I believe if you become habitually resident or take a flyign job in another state you must change to that state.
However Tigris - what would be unreasonable about a recruitment manager insisting for a job in Europe that a candidate had a significant amount of flight time in Europe? Flying environments are different! Ccertainly I would expect some to show a preference for training in Europe by European instructors.
ICAO is the International Civil Aviation Organisation. It is an umbrella organisation that tries to wome up with international standards. Most nations are members, and their rules comply with ICAO recommendations, or else are published as differences. Their maintenance, training, examining and compliance standards reach or exceed ICAO expectations. The licences they issue in accordance with ICAO are then ICAO licences, and are often recognised internationally (although not always - international law is rather more fickle than national law!). The JAA and FAA licences are ICAO for example, as is, say an Indian one. However the UK CAA NPPL is not.
However Tigris - what would be unreasonable about a recruitment manager insisting for a job in Europe that a candidate had a significant amount of flight time in Europe? Flying environments are different! Ccertainly I would expect some to show a preference for training in Europe by European instructors.
ICAO is the International Civil Aviation Organisation. It is an umbrella organisation that tries to wome up with international standards. Most nations are members, and their rules comply with ICAO recommendations, or else are published as differences. Their maintenance, training, examining and compliance standards reach or exceed ICAO expectations. The licences they issue in accordance with ICAO are then ICAO licences, and are often recognised internationally (although not always - international law is rather more fickle than national law!). The JAA and FAA licences are ICAO for example, as is, say an Indian one. However the UK CAA NPPL is not.
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IACO? FAA? JAA? :s
Thanks alot for the clarification Clowns. When a flying school advertises (or an airline specifes) an 'IACO' lisence I guess it is necessary to find out exactly what variety of IACO lisence it is (ie FAA or JAA).
Another question is can a country issue its own ATPs? That are IACO but neither FAA or JAA?
I take your point about european airlines recruiting european trained pilots. I was un aware that the state of issue can be changed and thought an internationally issued lisence would mean a lifetime of difficulty getting work in Europe!
Another question is can a country issue its own ATPs? That are IACO but neither FAA or JAA?
I take your point about european airlines recruiting european trained pilots. I was un aware that the state of issue can be changed and thought an internationally issued lisence would mean a lifetime of difficulty getting work in Europe!
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Clowns / can you tell me how one goes about changing the state of issue of a JAA licence. How many hoops do you have to jump through and what does this cost. Whats the point???
I still cannot understand what the purpose of a harmonised licence is if you still differentiate between licences issued by different states. This is equivalent to an Airline in the USA stating that they only accept FAA licences issued in Idaho!
I accept your point about recruitment managers wanting experience operating in European airspace. However, consider that every day European airspace is filled with foreign aircraft crewed by pilots with licences issued by countries from all over the globe - don't notice too many calamities. Sigh - I guess I can't change the system so how high should I jump?
Tigris / I think when Clowns says that the state of issue can be changed he is referring specifically to JAA issued licences ie. a European licence.
Countries all over the world that are members of ICAO issue their own ICAO compliant licences - these are not neccesarily FAA (American) or JAA (European) licences.
I still cannot understand what the purpose of a harmonised licence is if you still differentiate between licences issued by different states. This is equivalent to an Airline in the USA stating that they only accept FAA licences issued in Idaho!
I accept your point about recruitment managers wanting experience operating in European airspace. However, consider that every day European airspace is filled with foreign aircraft crewed by pilots with licences issued by countries from all over the globe - don't notice too many calamities. Sigh - I guess I can't change the system so how high should I jump?
Tigris / I think when Clowns says that the state of issue can be changed he is referring specifically to JAA issued licences ie. a European licence.
Countries all over the world that are members of ICAO issue their own ICAO compliant licences - these are not neccesarily FAA (American) or JAA (European) licences.
Last edited by Woof etc; 15th Apr 2005 at 21:56.
When you live....
check this from easy jets recruitmnent website:
http://www.easyjet.com/EN/Jobs/Pilot...uirements.html
http://www.easyjet.com/EN/Jobs/Pilot...uirements.html
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Thanks Underneath The Radar - found the answer on the Easyjet site.
For the benefit of anyone else interested:
"Please note that if you hold a European National JAA licence, you will have to exchange it for a UK JAA licence before you start with us. This is due to training purposes (mainly for our TRE's to be able to sign for the type rating endorsement on your licence). The process for the exchange involves filling an application form, sending copies of your licence and medical certificate along with an administration fee."
As suspected, another pointless paperwork exercise and another excuse to screw us out of our hard earned cash.
For the benefit of anyone else interested:
"Please note that if you hold a European National JAA licence, you will have to exchange it for a UK JAA licence before you start with us. This is due to training purposes (mainly for our TRE's to be able to sign for the type rating endorsement on your licence). The process for the exchange involves filling an application form, sending copies of your licence and medical certificate along with an administration fee."
As suspected, another pointless paperwork exercise and another excuse to screw us out of our hard earned cash.
