Logbooks
The Cooler King
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: In the Desert
Posts: 1,703
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Logbooks
Hi Folks!
Nitty gritty question, but would like to remain compliant etc.
I'm doing my PPL in March, so I need to buy a logbook.
I had a look on the internet and saw a few but am a little confused (what's new!)
I intend to work my way up to an FAA ATP, but the PPL will be JAA and then I'll convert when I do the CPL in October, so bearing that in mind, what kind of logbook do you recommend I buy.
I know that Jeppesen do a big black one like something you'd see at a funeral for attendees to sign! - it's JAR compliant and has about fifty columns full of abbreviations (I am afraid of abbreviations!) but am I going to look like a ponce handing this over to my instructor during the PPL!!??
Is there another choice or should all of my hours from PPL to IR be in the same logbook??
Wayne
Nitty gritty question, but would like to remain compliant etc.
I'm doing my PPL in March, so I need to buy a logbook.
I had a look on the internet and saw a few but am a little confused (what's new!)
I intend to work my way up to an FAA ATP, but the PPL will be JAA and then I'll convert when I do the CPL in October, so bearing that in mind, what kind of logbook do you recommend I buy.
I know that Jeppesen do a big black one like something you'd see at a funeral for attendees to sign! - it's JAR compliant and has about fifty columns full of abbreviations (I am afraid of abbreviations!) but am I going to look like a ponce handing this over to my instructor during the PPL!!??
Is there another choice or should all of my hours from PPL to IR be in the same logbook??
Wayne
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: BFS
Posts: 1,177
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Without a doubt do it in the same book. It is so much nicer to have all your flying in the one place - and as you advance the wee books lack some columns. No instructor should laugh - if they haven't done the same they'll wish they had.
As to which book - who knows. I like the CAA one but it isn't JAA compliant. I ended up with a Pooleys one by default - the school issued us with them. Again I'm not that impressed with it. You can't separate P1 and P1s time. At least the CAA one allows you to define the time yourself.
Never used the Jep one. Most jep products are good so could be a good option.
Hope this thread expands - it's a real bug bear of mine that I'm not 100% happy with my log book. It's such an important document.
SK
As to which book - who knows. I like the CAA one but it isn't JAA compliant. I ended up with a Pooleys one by default - the school issued us with them. Again I'm not that impressed with it. You can't separate P1 and P1s time. At least the CAA one allows you to define the time yourself.
Never used the Jep one. Most jep products are good so could be a good option.
Hope this thread expands - it's a real bug bear of mine that I'm not 100% happy with my log book. It's such an important document.
SK
Why do it if it's not fun?
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Bournemouth
Posts: 4,779
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't think anyone cares what logbook you use. JAR-compliancy is very nice, but in fact as long as you record all the vital information, it doesn't really matter what order the columns are in, etc.
I think it's probably fair to say that most people start off with a PPL logbook, which your school will no doubt provide you with when you start training. This will hold all the information you need for your PPL, hour-building and CPL at least. When you do your IR you might need to put some simulator time in your logbook, which most PPL logbooks don't have room for, but by re-naming some columns you'll be able to manage. When you run out of columns, you'll have a much better idea of what you want for the type of flying you do, and then you can browse all the options and pick the one that fits you best.
I use a Jeppesen logbook now. I started off with a standard PPL logbook which my flying club sold me at the start of my training, and when I qualified as an instructor I bought the Jeppesen logbook. The reason I picked that one was because it had a separate column for instructor time, separate space for flight simulator time, and enough spare columns for me to keep track of tail-wheel time and sea-plane time too. This fits my needs perfectly, but that doesn't mean it'll fit your needs.
The main thing, though - don't worry, it really doesn't matter that much.
FFF
---------------
I think it's probably fair to say that most people start off with a PPL logbook, which your school will no doubt provide you with when you start training. This will hold all the information you need for your PPL, hour-building and CPL at least. When you do your IR you might need to put some simulator time in your logbook, which most PPL logbooks don't have room for, but by re-naming some columns you'll be able to manage. When you run out of columns, you'll have a much better idea of what you want for the type of flying you do, and then you can browse all the options and pick the one that fits you best.
I use a Jeppesen logbook now. I started off with a standard PPL logbook which my flying club sold me at the start of my training, and when I qualified as an instructor I bought the Jeppesen logbook. The reason I picked that one was because it had a separate column for instructor time, separate space for flight simulator time, and enough spare columns for me to keep track of tail-wheel time and sea-plane time too. This fits my needs perfectly, but that doesn't mean it'll fit your needs.
The main thing, though - don't worry, it really doesn't matter that much.
FFF
---------------
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Wor Yerm
Age: 68
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I use the CAA's logbook CAP 407. It's cheapish, easy to get (try Transair or Western Digital) and not too many columns. But to be honest, you could use anything to record your hours. Spend as little as possible and whatever you save, spend on beer.
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Dundee, Scotland
Age: 61
Posts: 1,271
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Warning: Unless it's changed in the last couple of years the CAA CAP 407 logbook does not have separate columns for multi engine time. So crap in fact that I threw mine out without using it.
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Blighty - On secondment
Posts: 329
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I agree in that is doesn't really matter what you record your hours in. If I was starting my flying all over again I would choose the big black Jepp book. They have one for JAA and one for FAA. What ever regs you do your PPL under won't matter and it can be recorded in either logbook. I am still using a CASA(Australian) issued logbook for jaunts around Europe. Point of interest, I have never been asked for my logbook by an employer, they were only ever interested in my licence/medical. Authorities, both the IAA and the CAA have asked to see a record of flying hours and when I presented my Aussie paperwork they comment was along the lines of 'ahh, haven't seen one of those in a while'.
For what it is worth, use the same color ink for all entries..!
For what it is worth, use the same color ink for all entries..!
I'm with Piltdown Man and the CAP 407! When I flew 4-jets, the fact that ME time wasn't in seperate columns was no real biggie. A colleague used the same logbook for everything from 747 to Cherokee via Venoms and Vampires. No problemo.
Interestingly, it doesn't really matter what you record your flight time in - an ex-Concorde captain I knew used to use cheapo school exercise books!
Interestingly, it doesn't really matter what you record your flight time in - an ex-Concorde captain I knew used to use cheapo school exercise books!
Worthy of mention that a cheap logbook costs maybe £6, and a very expensive one maybe £20 (okay there are a few exotic ones that cost rather more, but they are few and far between).
If you are planning / intending / hoping to do a lot of flying, then buy something reasonably large, robust, and good looking - you'll be living with that book for a long time, and the cost is trivial compared to virtually anything you'll ever spend on flying.
G
If you are planning / intending / hoping to do a lot of flying, then buy something reasonably large, robust, and good looking - you'll be living with that book for a long time, and the cost is trivial compared to virtually anything you'll ever spend on flying.
G
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Blighty - On secondment
Posts: 329
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
An excellent idea to keep your hours backed up on computer. Have a look at this thread to see what happens when it all comes apart...
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...72#post1759272
Do a search for pilots logbooks and the net will throw up heaps of choices. Some attract a small fee but in terms of overall flying costs it is nothing.
Farrell, hope the preparation for your PPL is going well as March draws nearer!
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...72#post1759272
Do a search for pilots logbooks and the net will throw up heaps of choices. Some attract a small fee but in terms of overall flying costs it is nothing.
Farrell, hope the preparation for your PPL is going well as March draws nearer!
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: 51°30'0N 0°8'60E
Posts: 101
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sidetracking but still on the logbook issue:
1) Does it matter if time is in hrs/mins or decimals of 1/10ths?
2) Does it matter if airports are written by their names or their ICAO codes?
Another bugbear of mine!
Ratpup
1) Does it matter if time is in hrs/mins or decimals of 1/10ths?
2) Does it matter if airports are written by their names or their ICAO codes?
Another bugbear of mine!
Ratpup
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: The dark side of the moon
Posts: 345
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Be sure to back up your logbook.
I use:
www.e-logbooks.com/pilots/
This web site is perfect for that reason, but you do have to pay for it!!!!
I use:
www.e-logbooks.com/pilots/
This web site is perfect for that reason, but you do have to pay for it!!!!
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Blighty - On secondment
Posts: 329
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Info For Ratpup......
FFF....I thought the new JAR standard was now to log time in Hours and Mins with the actual off/on block times being noted!
Sorry can't find a reference for this (as ever) but it seems to be what all my airheads are doing.
I first came accross this during a renewnal in Holland two years ago.
rgds,
GP.
FFF....I thought the new JAR standard was now to log time in Hours and Mins with the actual off/on block times being noted!
Sorry can't find a reference for this (as ever) but it seems to be what all my airheads are doing.
I first came accross this during a renewnal in Holland two years ago.
rgds,
GP.
The Cooler King
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: In the Desert
Posts: 1,703
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Cheers Folks!
I have another twist to the logbook problem now!
There is a chance that I won't be getting a JAA Class 2 medical issued.
However, I do have an FAA First Class Airman's medical so the airline dream is alive and kicking.
I have been told by the ever-patient Trevor Brackston at EFT that I can do the full JAA PPL training with them and get a free FAA licence at the end.
Have to sort out which logbook to use now. Will probably stick to whatever they give me, but I have a big black Jepp JAR one too, so I'll bring it with me just in case.
I'll try to email everyone to let you know how it goes!
Thanks again for all your help!
Wayne
I have another twist to the logbook problem now!
There is a chance that I won't be getting a JAA Class 2 medical issued.
However, I do have an FAA First Class Airman's medical so the airline dream is alive and kicking.
I have been told by the ever-patient Trevor Brackston at EFT that I can do the full JAA PPL training with them and get a free FAA licence at the end.
Have to sort out which logbook to use now. Will probably stick to whatever they give me, but I have a big black Jepp JAR one too, so I'll bring it with me just in case.
I'll try to email everyone to let you know how it goes!
Thanks again for all your help!
Wayne
Why do it if it's not fun?
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Bournemouth
Posts: 4,779
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
GP,
If you are correct, that's the first I've heard of it. My first logbook I logged in decimals (because that's how my first school charged me). My current logbook I log in hours and minutes (because it's much easier.... plus that's how the school I now work for pay me). The CAA have seen both logbooks, and issued JAR licenses and ratings based on what they've seen in both logbooks, without any queries. Not definitive, I know.....
FFF
-------------
If you are correct, that's the first I've heard of it. My first logbook I logged in decimals (because that's how my first school charged me). My current logbook I log in hours and minutes (because it's much easier.... plus that's how the school I now work for pay me). The CAA have seen both logbooks, and issued JAR licenses and ratings based on what they've seen in both logbooks, without any queries. Not definitive, I know.....
FFF
-------------
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Blighty - On secondment
Posts: 329
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
FFF and Touch&Oops!
I accept the CAA still accept both ways of loggin time as do the IAA when I present my logbooks. Yet another positvie outcome for harmonisation that all the national authorities are still doing their own thing.
Seems there is indeed room for both ways of logging flight time.
JAR-FCL 1.80(b) The record shall contain the following information
(2) (iii) Place and time of departure and arrival (times(UTC) to be block time).
As per \'instructions for use\' in the Jeppesen Pilot Logbook that meets JAR-FCL 1.80 requirements.
\'Total time of flight may be entered in hours and minutes or decimal notation as desired\'.
Of interest is that in the example given in the logbook Jeppesen use hours and minutes.
Hope this is of help!
brgds,
GP.
I accept the CAA still accept both ways of loggin time as do the IAA when I present my logbooks. Yet another positvie outcome for harmonisation that all the national authorities are still doing their own thing.
Seems there is indeed room for both ways of logging flight time.
JAR-FCL 1.80(b) The record shall contain the following information
(2) (iii) Place and time of departure and arrival (times(UTC) to be block time).
As per \'instructions for use\' in the Jeppesen Pilot Logbook that meets JAR-FCL 1.80 requirements.
\'Total time of flight may be entered in hours and minutes or decimal notation as desired\'.
Of interest is that in the example given in the logbook Jeppesen use hours and minutes.
Hope this is of help!
brgds,
GP.
Last edited by Global Pilot; 23rd Feb 2005 at 12:24.
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Lochwinnoch, Renfrewshire
Posts: 42
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Which one?
I'm looking at the Jeppesen web site, and they offer several different big black log books. Here's the page:
http://www.jeppesen.com/wlcs/applica...ategory_id=PS5
Is any of these particularly better/worse than the others? I'm just a PPL learner at the moment, but I'd like one that'll cater for everything I might ever need.
http://www.jeppesen.com/wlcs/applica...ategory_id=PS5
Is any of these particularly better/worse than the others? I'm just a PPL learner at the moment, but I'd like one that'll cater for everything I might ever need.
