Magazines - Important - Sales vs. Editorial
Chieftan o'the Pudden Race
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scameron,
if you have beaten one of his arguments SC is always quick to tell you you havent read his posts properly and accuse you of :
a) personal attacks
b) putting words in his mouth
c) making things up
d) all of the above
if you have beaten one of his arguments SC is always quick to tell you you havent read his posts properly and accuse you of :
a) personal attacks
b) putting words in his mouth
c) making things up
d) all of the above
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I think we all know that conducting and argument on the internet is an utterly fruitless activity.
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Dear All,
A few days ago I posted a response to Send Clowns:
I searched through a great number of my previous posts and a number of threads trying to find the exact one before typing this. After receiving his reply I decided to do it again with that little more vigor based on what he said. After an exhaustive search I found the thread in question. One of the moderators must have removed the post as it was a blatent self advertisment for a certain school who I will not give any more publicity, not really in keeping with a forum.
I am now adding to this original thread to apologise to Send Clowns as it was FlyingForFun who posted the ad (I found a reference to the post further on in the thread). All I can do I apologise and hope he at least accepts my humble apology and recognises the effort and endeavour I have made since to at least clear the air and his name with respect to this issue.
In my defence I was sure 100% it was a flight instructor from a school on the South Coast (which was correct) but let me stress again it was not Send Clowns.
However, back onto the topic of this thread, I do believe very strongly that Send Clowns took a general fact (namely the two pages thing) and with a bit of conjecture and assumption made an argument which wasn't really there in the first place to be made.
There is nothing else on this thread I regret typing and stand by everything else. Just didn't want anyone to think any less of Send Clowns because of my post.
A few days ago I posted a response to Send Clowns:
I've had a clash with Send Clowns before, I started a thread and I had to rebuke Send Clowns in it for taking it off topic and advertising his own employer
I am now adding to this original thread to apologise to Send Clowns as it was FlyingForFun who posted the ad (I found a reference to the post further on in the thread). All I can do I apologise and hope he at least accepts my humble apology and recognises the effort and endeavour I have made since to at least clear the air and his name with respect to this issue.
In my defence I was sure 100% it was a flight instructor from a school on the South Coast (which was correct) but let me stress again it was not Send Clowns.
However, back onto the topic of this thread, I do believe very strongly that Send Clowns took a general fact (namely the two pages thing) and with a bit of conjecture and assumption made an argument which wasn't really there in the first place to be made.
There is nothing else on this thread I regret typing and stand by everything else. Just didn't want anyone to think any less of Send Clowns because of my post.
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This could have been an interesting topic. However, it was hijacked for personal reasons which has pretty much negated its value.
I'm probably wasting my time, but how about doing the personal stuff by e-mail or PM, and letting the thread continue on its intended path? No, forget it - I'm asking pigs to fly I guess!
Damn shame, because I was an advertiser in magazines in a different industry and I could back up scameron's revelations 100%. Even now, 3 years after I closed that business, and even though I was a very small (classified ad) player, I am still pursued by the magazines each time they intend to run an article that may have been relevant to my business - and therefore revenue-earning for them.
I have to say that the worst 'offenders' (though perhaps understandably) were the regional and local trade association-type rags that apply absolutely no editorial rigour at all! They spout pure, unfiltered, uncritical drivel fed to them by their biggest advertisers. These rags do exist in aviation...
The point is, even the best magazines are purely commercial enterprises that exist with the intent to make money, therefore they are at risk of being influenced by their larger advertising clients. Though they may have the best of intentions, they can't often afford to upset their advertisers - unless they are in the rare and privileged position of being able to turn away less reputable (or even any) advertisers. As Pprune is... well, usually!
Scroggs
This message has been brought to you by The Moonraker Narrowboat Company with absolutely no commercially ulterior motive whatsoever!
I'm probably wasting my time, but how about doing the personal stuff by e-mail or PM, and letting the thread continue on its intended path? No, forget it - I'm asking pigs to fly I guess!
Damn shame, because I was an advertiser in magazines in a different industry and I could back up scameron's revelations 100%. Even now, 3 years after I closed that business, and even though I was a very small (classified ad) player, I am still pursued by the magazines each time they intend to run an article that may have been relevant to my business - and therefore revenue-earning for them.
I have to say that the worst 'offenders' (though perhaps understandably) were the regional and local trade association-type rags that apply absolutely no editorial rigour at all! They spout pure, unfiltered, uncritical drivel fed to them by their biggest advertisers. These rags do exist in aviation...
The point is, even the best magazines are purely commercial enterprises that exist with the intent to make money, therefore they are at risk of being influenced by their larger advertising clients. Though they may have the best of intentions, they can't often afford to upset their advertisers - unless they are in the rare and privileged position of being able to turn away less reputable (or even any) advertisers. As Pprune is... well, usually!
Scroggs
This message has been brought to you by The Moonraker Narrowboat Company with absolutely no commercially ulterior motive whatsoever!
Just as an aside, there is a particular UK aviation publication which is widely regarded as being totally advertising based. I've only ever written for them once, in slightly odd circumstances. I read an article that I felt was complete airbollox, so I rang the editor and told him so. His response was "well, you'd better write a correct article then, and I'll publish it in the next issue".
I did, and he did- without any amendment - he even stated that it was correcting the previous.
I think all editors would prefer to be as honest, complete and truthful as they can - it's just not always all that easy for them.
G
Completely mystified about some of the background politics to this thread.
I did, and he did- without any amendment - he even stated that it was correcting the previous.
I think all editors would prefer to be as honest, complete and truthful as they can - it's just not always all that easy for them.
G
Completely mystified about some of the background politics to this thread.
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With respect to the personal and background politics here is my take on how this thread has went so far:
I start it up, suggesting the practices I've came across in the publishing industry and how I'd be surprised if they weren't carried through to the flying industry.
Few posts, general agreement
Send Clowns has a go, claims I'm in no position to say what I did and I was fundamentally wrong.
Few posts, saying they didn't agree with him.
I suggest that Send Clowns might have an axe to grind with me becasue I had disaplined him in another thread I started.
Send Clowns get upset (and rightly so as it turns out as I got this one bit of my argument wrong) but melodrama sets in.
I decide to research my claim more rigorously and discover I was wrong in my acusation regarding his post in another thread and I apologise and publish that apology. Correct me if I'm wrong Moerators, as common on here as pigs flying or people refering to the "IMPORTANT - Please Read First" Thread at the top of the forum.
Scroggs and Genghis - I felt the need to post the reply on the forum rather than by email as I admitted I had a mistake and I needed to ensure that everyone reading the thread didn't associate the particular claim with Send Clowns. It just wasn't fair on him.
Out of about 26/27 posts on here I think there are 6/7 of merit, the rest have been embroiled in a tangent which I must admit I was partially guilty of as after reading his posts was like a red rag to a bull.
I start it up, suggesting the practices I've came across in the publishing industry and how I'd be surprised if they weren't carried through to the flying industry.
Few posts, general agreement
Send Clowns has a go, claims I'm in no position to say what I did and I was fundamentally wrong.
Few posts, saying they didn't agree with him.
I suggest that Send Clowns might have an axe to grind with me becasue I had disaplined him in another thread I started.
Send Clowns get upset (and rightly so as it turns out as I got this one bit of my argument wrong) but melodrama sets in.
I decide to research my claim more rigorously and discover I was wrong in my acusation regarding his post in another thread and I apologise and publish that apology. Correct me if I'm wrong Moerators, as common on here as pigs flying or people refering to the "IMPORTANT - Please Read First" Thread at the top of the forum.
Scroggs and Genghis - I felt the need to post the reply on the forum rather than by email as I admitted I had a mistake and I needed to ensure that everyone reading the thread didn't associate the particular claim with Send Clowns. It just wasn't fair on him.
Out of about 26/27 posts on here I think there are 6/7 of merit, the rest have been embroiled in a tangent which I must admit I was partially guilty of as after reading his posts was like a red rag to a bull.
