Cardiff Wales Flying Club (CWFC) Bankrupt
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: London
Posts: 68
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re TUPE - Of course the risk could be that you argue that you were an employee and hence TUPE applied and then the revenue comes chasing for all the PAYE and NI that it didn't manage to collect plus any penalties and of course the reversal of any expenses that you might have deducted in the course of your self employment. Best to seek some proper advice before you potentially shoot yourself in the foot.
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: don't know, I'll ask
Posts: 265
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Daw, not necessarily, as PAYE operation is the employer’s responsibility. The employer might well be expected to pay over the PAYE they did not collect. As you say though, get some good advice.
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: uk
Posts: 44
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
May i suggest that the CAA is a new company.
I say this cos the building was leased from the airport so did not belong to CWFC.
No aircraft changed hands as CAA is purchasing new aircraft.
Whether CAA will be able to retain any of the old PPL and students is another matter.
High on most peoples agenda is cost and of course quality of training provided. It all depends on whether CAA higher instructors who have lots of experience or decide to take on only new low houred guys thus saving some money but not gaining the exeperience the students deserve.
You may have shiny new aircraft to fly but this will not guarentee you a PPL pass.
I say this cos the building was leased from the airport so did not belong to CWFC.
No aircraft changed hands as CAA is purchasing new aircraft.
Whether CAA will be able to retain any of the old PPL and students is another matter.
High on most peoples agenda is cost and of course quality of training provided. It all depends on whether CAA higher instructors who have lots of experience or decide to take on only new low houred guys thus saving some money but not gaining the exeperience the students deserve.
You may have shiny new aircraft to fly but this will not guarentee you a PPL pass.
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: valleys
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
your right TH71 - Companies House shows a new co registered on 19/10/04 number 05263501 in the name of c.a.of a.
at £300 pa this has got to be about the dearest club locally I know god knows what the hire rates will be
at £300 pa this has got to be about the dearest club locally I know god knows what the hire rates will be
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: cardiff
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From a verbal phone call with a solicitor friend:
TUPE will probably apply. Because:
1. CAA has taken over the premises of a "solvent" company. It is apparently irrelevant whether or not the premises are owned or rented, or by who.
2. CAA will have to be registered with the same business classification as the old CWFC - ie a Flying School
3. CAA is targeting the same customers and providing the same services as CWFC.
4. CAA is already providing access to aircraft owners on production of a CWFC ID Card - confirmation of its intentions.
5. CAA is employing staff with the same skills and qualifications as CWFC to undertake the same tasks and provide the same services.
6. There has not been a noticable period of time between CWFC moving out and CAA moving in, nor have the membership been notified of CWFC's demise.
Regarding Employment / Self Employment:
This is apparently quite easy. Basically if you provide the services for which you are being paid to only one person or organisation, then technically you are employed by that person or organisation. However if you provide these services to more than one person or organisation then you can be either employed or self-employed, or even both.
I intend to declare all of my earnings to the Inland Revenue when the time comes. Even a full time instructor would hardly earn enough to be seriously affected by income tax. I already make NI contributions so by being considered as employed I will probably not be any worse off.
However, the Inland Revenue will have lost out because they would not have received the employers contributions under the PAYE scheme for the period of my employment. This is the responsibility of the employer not the employee. I will be protected even more by the fact that I have not been given nor have I signed a contract of employment with CWFC.
I hope this information, although only advisory and not yet proven, will help secure future employment for us all. That, of course, is if we wish to be employed by CAA.
TUPE will probably apply. Because:
1. CAA has taken over the premises of a "solvent" company. It is apparently irrelevant whether or not the premises are owned or rented, or by who.
2. CAA will have to be registered with the same business classification as the old CWFC - ie a Flying School
3. CAA is targeting the same customers and providing the same services as CWFC.
4. CAA is already providing access to aircraft owners on production of a CWFC ID Card - confirmation of its intentions.
5. CAA is employing staff with the same skills and qualifications as CWFC to undertake the same tasks and provide the same services.
6. There has not been a noticable period of time between CWFC moving out and CAA moving in, nor have the membership been notified of CWFC's demise.
Regarding Employment / Self Employment:
This is apparently quite easy. Basically if you provide the services for which you are being paid to only one person or organisation, then technically you are employed by that person or organisation. However if you provide these services to more than one person or organisation then you can be either employed or self-employed, or even both.
I intend to declare all of my earnings to the Inland Revenue when the time comes. Even a full time instructor would hardly earn enough to be seriously affected by income tax. I already make NI contributions so by being considered as employed I will probably not be any worse off.
However, the Inland Revenue will have lost out because they would not have received the employers contributions under the PAYE scheme for the period of my employment. This is the responsibility of the employer not the employee. I will be protected even more by the fact that I have not been given nor have I signed a contract of employment with CWFC.
I hope this information, although only advisory and not yet proven, will help secure future employment for us all. That, of course, is if we wish to be employed by CAA.
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: East of Clacton
Posts: 40
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
One of my colleagues has been making enquiries about CAA. Some of her thoughts and analysis.....
1. The White Building has been stripped bare. All items belonging to the former club, and paid for by the members and their successive committees, have been removed.
This raises a few questions. If CWFC went into liquidation, then the receivers will have removed the items, and will be investigating the recent disposal of some club assets - not least of which G-BTAS, which the CAA website shows was reregistered about a week before CWFC closed the doors. No receiver seems to have been appointed. OR - CWFC have sold the items to someone (perhaps CAA?) - but they did this then without the permission of the membership - CWFC was a members' club. OR CAA has assumed ownership. Which I don't think is right. Where is Flying Lawyer?
QUESTION: What has happened to CWFC's assets?
2. It would appear that CAA is not intending to employ any of the employees of CWFC. That will go down like a rat sandwich with the CWFC membership, and will be a major hurdle to overcome.
A former employee of CWFC has been recruited to run the reception. His reputation precedes him.
QUESTION: Why have the CWFC employees been treated so poorly, and does TUPE apply?
3. Membership of CAA will be £300 year one, then £100 subsequently. Rental will be in the region of £130 for the DA40 and £110 for the Robins. This applies to all members, including the private owners, who are ALREADY paying CIAL for the parking and landing fees of their aircraft. Aeros in Gloucester and Filton are charging their members £40-50. Many, many people will be taking the Aeros/SWS routes; I would guess CAA will be looking at less than 50 members.
QUESTION: Is CAA working to drive members away?
4. Access to aircraft will be limited, apparently, to CAA opening hours. Outside these hours, its Execair for us all, boys and girls. At FURTHER cost. So kiss goodbye to your trips to Ireland, France, the Channel Islands etc, unless you are prepared to stay overnight there, or hurry back. Oh, and kiss goodbye to keeping your night quals current as well.
QUESTION: Why does CAA want to dispose of private owners?
5. Whilst the CAA seems to have a very competent and affable new CFI, why does the owner seem not to want to build a relationship with the former CWFC members, who are by definition his target CAA members - no emails, nothing?
Mind you - if CAA is a new business, and they use the information stored on the CWFC systems - including mailing lists - I think that the Data Protection people will want a word. However - there WERE paper copies of the records (as I've found out, correcting my previous post).
QUESTION: If CAA needs to attract members - as presumably it must - why is it going to such lengths to alienate its potential members?
I hate to be the ghost at the feast here. But this is NOT, MOST DEFINATELY NOT, the way ahead for GA at Cardiff.
We don't want a fancy restaurant (who the hell will go to eat a steak overlooking the hangar, the car park and the foundations of the old hangar?). We don't want expensive aircraft that, according to some website reviews are not ideal for training and have debatable support. What we DO want is access to our aircraft, or acceptable hire aircraft, for reasonable hours, and at a reasonable cost.
If the airport wants to kill of GA at Cardiff - which personally I doubt - they have done the job. Killing GA will have VERY serious ramifications for NATS, the fire service and the reputation of the airport.
I'll give them six months tops. Not worth paying the membership for. Forms to apply are apparently appearing from next Monday. Little round filing cabinet beckons for many of them, including mine.
TFL
1. The White Building has been stripped bare. All items belonging to the former club, and paid for by the members and their successive committees, have been removed.
This raises a few questions. If CWFC went into liquidation, then the receivers will have removed the items, and will be investigating the recent disposal of some club assets - not least of which G-BTAS, which the CAA website shows was reregistered about a week before CWFC closed the doors. No receiver seems to have been appointed. OR - CWFC have sold the items to someone (perhaps CAA?) - but they did this then without the permission of the membership - CWFC was a members' club. OR CAA has assumed ownership. Which I don't think is right. Where is Flying Lawyer?
QUESTION: What has happened to CWFC's assets?
2. It would appear that CAA is not intending to employ any of the employees of CWFC. That will go down like a rat sandwich with the CWFC membership, and will be a major hurdle to overcome.
A former employee of CWFC has been recruited to run the reception. His reputation precedes him.
QUESTION: Why have the CWFC employees been treated so poorly, and does TUPE apply?
3. Membership of CAA will be £300 year one, then £100 subsequently. Rental will be in the region of £130 for the DA40 and £110 for the Robins. This applies to all members, including the private owners, who are ALREADY paying CIAL for the parking and landing fees of their aircraft. Aeros in Gloucester and Filton are charging their members £40-50. Many, many people will be taking the Aeros/SWS routes; I would guess CAA will be looking at less than 50 members.
QUESTION: Is CAA working to drive members away?
4. Access to aircraft will be limited, apparently, to CAA opening hours. Outside these hours, its Execair for us all, boys and girls. At FURTHER cost. So kiss goodbye to your trips to Ireland, France, the Channel Islands etc, unless you are prepared to stay overnight there, or hurry back. Oh, and kiss goodbye to keeping your night quals current as well.
QUESTION: Why does CAA want to dispose of private owners?
5. Whilst the CAA seems to have a very competent and affable new CFI, why does the owner seem not to want to build a relationship with the former CWFC members, who are by definition his target CAA members - no emails, nothing?
Mind you - if CAA is a new business, and they use the information stored on the CWFC systems - including mailing lists - I think that the Data Protection people will want a word. However - there WERE paper copies of the records (as I've found out, correcting my previous post).
QUESTION: If CAA needs to attract members - as presumably it must - why is it going to such lengths to alienate its potential members?
I hate to be the ghost at the feast here. But this is NOT, MOST DEFINATELY NOT, the way ahead for GA at Cardiff.
We don't want a fancy restaurant (who the hell will go to eat a steak overlooking the hangar, the car park and the foundations of the old hangar?). We don't want expensive aircraft that, according to some website reviews are not ideal for training and have debatable support. What we DO want is access to our aircraft, or acceptable hire aircraft, for reasonable hours, and at a reasonable cost.
If the airport wants to kill of GA at Cardiff - which personally I doubt - they have done the job. Killing GA will have VERY serious ramifications for NATS, the fire service and the reputation of the airport.
I'll give them six months tops. Not worth paying the membership for. Forms to apply are apparently appearing from next Monday. Little round filing cabinet beckons for many of them, including mine.
TFL
Last edited by The Flying Lip; 21st Oct 2004 at 02:08.
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: London
Posts: 68
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ludwig - I thought that the IR had a fallback position where if they couldn't claim PAYE/NI etc from companies then they could pursue individuals instead. Then it would be down to the individual to try and get the money back that they would have had to pay the IR?
Certainly seems a strange way to go about building up a new flying school alienating potential customers with exhorbitant fees. If someone has access to the old list of members I would suggest getting a petition together and voicing your concerns and putting this new bloke on warning. Maybe he just got his business plan totally wrong and needs a wake up call? Those prices are what we would expect to pay around London.
Certainly seems a strange way to go about building up a new flying school alienating potential customers with exhorbitant fees. If someone has access to the old list of members I would suggest getting a petition together and voicing your concerns and putting this new bloke on warning. Maybe he just got his business plan totally wrong and needs a wake up call? Those prices are what we would expect to pay around London.
Last edited by daw; 21st Oct 2004 at 09:44.
Moderator
Join Date: Jul 1997
Location: Europe
Posts: 3,228
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Killing GA will have VERY serious ramifications for NATS
(PS I support the sustenance of GA in the UK, just can't see what you're getting at in respect of an impact on NATS)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 1,294
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I believe this may be to do with runway movements. The runway movements have dropped significantly within the last 2 years so significantly that it may push the banding of the unit down to band 1. Regardless of the fact the radar unit handles 4 times the runway movements everyday at least, often more we are unfortunately judged on runway movements not the actual task we do.
It would be desperately unfair on us to be dropped down yet another grade because of all the loss of runway movements.
Hearing from private owners and previous club members that they will all be moving away from CWL if what is rumoured is true, we simply cannot afford to lose any more runway movements ( the loss has been in excess of 20K movements a year since the club started running itself into the ground)
It would be desperately unfair on us to be dropped down yet another grade because of all the loss of runway movements.
Hearing from private owners and previous club members that they will all be moving away from CWL if what is rumoured is true, we simply cannot afford to lose any more runway movements ( the loss has been in excess of 20K movements a year since the club started running itself into the ground)
Guest
Posts: n/a
Well i have finally had enough I contacted Aeros this morning at Filton and i am seriously looking at going over there.
There is know way that i am paying £300 and then if the prices are correct £140 to rent a Diamond aircraft.
Aeros can offer me £50 membership and a further £110 for a Cherokee or Warrior, and professional flight training.
Its such a shame but at the end of the day i am looking out in my best interest and CAA £2000 loss is Aeros Gain.
The biggest mistake they have made over there is to stick with this attitude of out with the old and in with the new. Cardiff Wales had some of the most freindly and professional trainers/ staff going and if they are kept away from the new club just because they were once associated with the old club then be prepared GJ to lose the students who they taught and taught well!!
This could be me saying goodbye CAA and Hello AEROS
Over and Out
SDM
There is know way that i am paying £300 and then if the prices are correct £140 to rent a Diamond aircraft.
Aeros can offer me £50 membership and a further £110 for a Cherokee or Warrior, and professional flight training.
Its such a shame but at the end of the day i am looking out in my best interest and CAA £2000 loss is Aeros Gain.
The biggest mistake they have made over there is to stick with this attitude of out with the old and in with the new. Cardiff Wales had some of the most freindly and professional trainers/ staff going and if they are kept away from the new club just because they were once associated with the old club then be prepared GJ to lose the students who they taught and taught well!!
This could be me saying goodbye CAA and Hello AEROS
Over and Out
SDM
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: cardiff
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A clean sweep is essential if CAA is to avoid inheriting a lot of the problems that ultimately killed CWFC. A simple re-branding using the same employees and members will merely serve to saddle CAA with much of the CWFC baggage of the last few years.
Already some of the attitudes that helped to see off the club are being expressed on this thread. Ultimately CAA will be subjected to the time served market forces of supply and demand.
Who knows, a more expensive and hence exclusive service may well be attractive to some. If its not then CAA will be forced to re-think. The last thing it should do at this stage is be influenced by those who think they know better, we all know what that did to CWFC.
It seems to me that there are many out there who are once again expecting to get something for nothing. One of the issues for CWFC was the outright rejection by the members (including the current committee) of any increase in membership or flying rates for over 8 years. Ultimately rates had to go into catch up which proved too little too late.
The rates proposed by CAA seem quite reasonable for good facilities and new aircraft. The problem with CWFC was it was trying to achieve similar rates for crap facilities and planes.
Already some of the attitudes that helped to see off the club are being expressed on this thread. Ultimately CAA will be subjected to the time served market forces of supply and demand.
Who knows, a more expensive and hence exclusive service may well be attractive to some. If its not then CAA will be forced to re-think. The last thing it should do at this stage is be influenced by those who think they know better, we all know what that did to CWFC.
It seems to me that there are many out there who are once again expecting to get something for nothing. One of the issues for CWFC was the outright rejection by the members (including the current committee) of any increase in membership or flying rates for over 8 years. Ultimately rates had to go into catch up which proved too little too late.
The rates proposed by CAA seem quite reasonable for good facilities and new aircraft. The problem with CWFC was it was trying to achieve similar rates for crap facilities and planes.
Last edited by Main Man; 21st Oct 2004 at 15:15.
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: East of Clacton
Posts: 40
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Main Man
I agree with your argument but not with your conclusions.
A clean sweep could well be essential - but any new club/business at Cardiff is going to HAVE to attract many of the members that were at CWFC. There is no way that CAA will be able to find x hundred members in the area who are brand new to flying. Consequently, a clean sweep is just not going to happen.
I still go back to my original questions:
* What has happened to CWFC's assets?
* Why have the CWFC employees been treated so poorly, and does TUPE apply?
* Is CAA working to drive members away?
* Why does CAA want to dispose of private owners?
* If CAA needs to attract members - as presumably it must - why is it going to such lengths to alienate its potential members?
As for your argument about rates - yes, the rates probably were held too low for too long - but then you start talking about market forces? What happened when the rates were raised last year - the membership dropped by 60%, many went to Aeros and Gloucester. It is all very well to say the rates are too low, but if you raise them and the market raises two fingers at you, you really need to re-evaluate your product. I think from a PPL viewpoint, Cardiff has gone from one extreme to another - from pretty poor aircraft to very nice (although unsuitable IMHO) aircraft; what the PPLs at Cardiff want is merely good aircraft. We are going from clapped out Fiestas to new BMW 5-series, when all we really want is two year old Astras.... and Astras is all most of the membership want to pay for, especially when the Vauxhall dealers in Swansea, Gloucester and Filton are doing Astras for less, with a lower charge to get into the showroom...
...and their showrooms may be open longer as well...
TFL
I agree with your argument but not with your conclusions.
A clean sweep could well be essential - but any new club/business at Cardiff is going to HAVE to attract many of the members that were at CWFC. There is no way that CAA will be able to find x hundred members in the area who are brand new to flying. Consequently, a clean sweep is just not going to happen.
I still go back to my original questions:
* What has happened to CWFC's assets?
* Why have the CWFC employees been treated so poorly, and does TUPE apply?
* Is CAA working to drive members away?
* Why does CAA want to dispose of private owners?
* If CAA needs to attract members - as presumably it must - why is it going to such lengths to alienate its potential members?
As for your argument about rates - yes, the rates probably were held too low for too long - but then you start talking about market forces? What happened when the rates were raised last year - the membership dropped by 60%, many went to Aeros and Gloucester. It is all very well to say the rates are too low, but if you raise them and the market raises two fingers at you, you really need to re-evaluate your product. I think from a PPL viewpoint, Cardiff has gone from one extreme to another - from pretty poor aircraft to very nice (although unsuitable IMHO) aircraft; what the PPLs at Cardiff want is merely good aircraft. We are going from clapped out Fiestas to new BMW 5-series, when all we really want is two year old Astras.... and Astras is all most of the membership want to pay for, especially when the Vauxhall dealers in Swansea, Gloucester and Filton are doing Astras for less, with a lower charge to get into the showroom...
...and their showrooms may be open longer as well...
TFL
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: cardiff
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
TFL,
What assets??
All that was left was 2 tomahawks:
1 has a duff engine - value £5k max.
We all know what happened to the other one!
Are there any other assets worth talking about?
What assets??
All that was left was 2 tomahawks:
1 has a duff engine - value £5k max.
We all know what happened to the other one!
Are there any other assets worth talking about?
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: East of Clacton
Posts: 40
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yes.
What about :
The GPS in the cabinet
The raybans in the cabinet
The pilot supplies in the back office
The computers
The security equipment
The software
The fridges
The freezers
The cookers
The remaining food and drink
The large antique propellor behind the bar
The pool table
The television
The printers
The headsets
The radios
The photocopiers
The pass printer
The flight simulator
The manuals
The remaining stationery
The furniture
The cash register
The cash in the register
The cash in the cash boxes downstairs
There is a good argument for saying that the Tomahawk in question should not have been taken as well.... and the other one is there, and the plastic model (!)
Someone needs to answer the question - where has this stuff gone??
TFL
What about :
The GPS in the cabinet
The raybans in the cabinet
The pilot supplies in the back office
The computers
The security equipment
The software
The fridges
The freezers
The cookers
The remaining food and drink
The large antique propellor behind the bar
The pool table
The television
The printers
The headsets
The radios
The photocopiers
The pass printer
The flight simulator
The manuals
The remaining stationery
The furniture
The cash register
The cash in the register
The cash in the cash boxes downstairs
There is a good argument for saying that the Tomahawk in question should not have been taken as well.... and the other one is there, and the plastic model (!)
Someone needs to answer the question - where has this stuff gone??
TFL
without naming any names...
i guess give it a week and look on EBAY..
at the very least if the person is in possession of the above could sell them all, all the members could go out for a slap up portion of local fish and chips...
anyone on now go into the matrix chat room
Spit
i guess give it a week and look on EBAY..
at the very least if the person is in possession of the above could sell them all, all the members could go out for a slap up portion of local fish and chips...
anyone on now go into the matrix chat room
Spit
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: uk
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
main man re clean sweep
do not forget main man, the staff in admin and cafe (nicci karen mel & debs) were only workers there and were not part of cwfc committee or its downfall. if thats the case and you want a clean sweep as TFL says then gary jones needs to find all new members and not CWFC MEMBERS otherwise its not a clean sweep
do not forget main man, the staff in admin and cafe (nicci karen mel & debs) were only workers there and were not part of cwfc committee or its downfall. if thats the case and you want a clean sweep as TFL says then gary jones needs to find all new members and not CWFC MEMBERS otherwise its not a clean sweep
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: uk
Posts: 44
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I see that the CWFC going bankrupt has finally reached the South Wales Echo. (thursdays edition)
Seems strange that Gary Jones is quoted as he knew nothing about the old clubs situation and that he bid for the lease and heypresto CAA.
How come the ex CFI has been seen around the club and that him and GJ actually know each other quite well.
Makes me wonder how Gary would have known nothing about this situation.
Add to this the fact that a new CFI was found almost immediatley and that he hopes to be up and running in a few weeks it seems pretty impressive feat not knowing anything was amiss.
The plot thickens.
Seems strange that Gary Jones is quoted as he knew nothing about the old clubs situation and that he bid for the lease and heypresto CAA.
How come the ex CFI has been seen around the club and that him and GJ actually know each other quite well.
Makes me wonder how Gary would have known nothing about this situation.
Add to this the fact that a new CFI was found almost immediatley and that he hopes to be up and running in a few weeks it seems pretty impressive feat not knowing anything was amiss.
The plot thickens.
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: cardiff
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sadly some of those you choose to name did not entirely keep out of the club politics in the past. Aside from that CAA has the basic right to decide who it employs and it is astonishing that some on this thread are already trying to dictate terms to this new startup.
Those who choose to join CAA should do so as fee paying Joe Public consumers, they should not be flaunting the dubious status of "Ex CWFC" member with an expectation of some sort of special privilege. The fact of the matter is CAA owes CWFC members and former employees nothing.
Market forces will dictate the composition and scale of the new membership as well as the fees.
I think you'd be surprised how many are prepared to pay for the 5 series quality and reliability.
Those who choose to join CAA should do so as fee paying Joe Public consumers, they should not be flaunting the dubious status of "Ex CWFC" member with an expectation of some sort of special privilege. The fact of the matter is CAA owes CWFC members and former employees nothing.
Market forces will dictate the composition and scale of the new membership as well as the fees.
I think you'd be surprised how many are prepared to pay for the 5 series quality and reliability.
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Kilmacolm
Age: 47
Posts: 740
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Granted, but I for one aren't paying £300 to be able to access a privately owned aircraft in oooh business hours only.
There is no point in keeping night current or anything just to be back a long time before 6pm in the evening when the doors close.
No way.
The path is clearing towards Aeros in Gloucester...
There is no point in keeping night current or anything just to be back a long time before 6pm in the evening when the doors close.
No way.
The path is clearing towards Aeros in Gloucester...