Cardiff Wales Flying Club (CWFC) Bankrupt
Join Date: May 2004
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Diamond have a flight test in todays pilot magazine for Diamond katana would this be the new 2 seat trainer/tourer for CAA ? (issue 20 June 2002) Also a link to Diamond a/c www.diamondair.co.uk Very Nice!
or is this completely the wrong a/c?
or is this completely the wrong a/c?
Last edited by pipertommy; 16th Oct 2004 at 19:17.
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No, the aircraft choice will be as follows.
Diamond DA40 TDI x 5 (probably five)
Robin 2120T x 2
I've been flying one of the Cardiff Academy of Aviations Robins for the last few months. A very nice aeroplane and together with the other Robin will mean two aircraft that are less than two years old from the start of the business.
The Diamond DA40 TDI aircraft are a fantastic four seat touring aeroplane which can be put to use in a training role as well, there is at least one or two schools around the country that are putting them to use in this role.
Gary Jones and I were very impressed with the DA40 TDI that we have both test flown. I'm waiting for the call to go up to Gamston to test fly the Diamond DA42 Twinstar.
So to sum up, in future student pilots at Cardiff Academy of Aviation will be learning to fly on one of the newest aircraft fleets for a flying school in the country.
Best wishes,
Charlie Zulu.
Diamond DA40 TDI x 5 (probably five)
Robin 2120T x 2
I've been flying one of the Cardiff Academy of Aviations Robins for the last few months. A very nice aeroplane and together with the other Robin will mean two aircraft that are less than two years old from the start of the business.
The Diamond DA40 TDI aircraft are a fantastic four seat touring aeroplane which can be put to use in a training role as well, there is at least one or two schools around the country that are putting them to use in this role.
Gary Jones and I were very impressed with the DA40 TDI that we have both test flown. I'm waiting for the call to go up to Gamston to test fly the Diamond DA42 Twinstar.
So to sum up, in future student pilots at Cardiff Academy of Aviation will be learning to fly on one of the newest aircraft fleets for a flying school in the country.
Best wishes,
Charlie Zulu.
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Looks Good, Charlie Zulu i know you may have already been asked, however when can we expect the new club to open its doors for training?
and will the training rates of the aircraft remain the same or are we looking at a slight increase for flying these bad boys?
Cheers
SDM
and will the training rates of the aircraft remain the same or are we looking at a slight increase for flying these bad boys?
Cheers
SDM
Join Date: May 2004
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Hope there is `nt a increase in rental costs! This stopped alot of old club members flying out of Cardiff,as the prices increased the flights dropped.Hard to go anywhere unless you are very wealthy?
Join Date: Oct 2004
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WR
How is this possible, Gary only found out on Friday.... to run a flight training school you need approval from the CAA who, for a new setup, will inspect the aircraft, tech logs, douments and facilities..
I believe from what has been said, Gary receives the keys tomorrow and then has to deal with all the CWFC stuff inside, gut and redecorate the place, bring in the new aeroplanes, CFI, Instructors and staff.
Realistically could be the 18th November in all honesty.. don't you agree
RC2004
How is this possible, Gary only found out on Friday.... to run a flight training school you need approval from the CAA who, for a new setup, will inspect the aircraft, tech logs, douments and facilities..
I believe from what has been said, Gary receives the keys tomorrow and then has to deal with all the CWFC stuff inside, gut and redecorate the place, bring in the new aeroplanes, CFI, Instructors and staff.
Realistically could be the 18th November in all honesty.. don't you agree
RC2004
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Sounds more likely to me BUT he does have a very experienced CFI who may have already been sorting out the approval from the CAA.
All that I know is tomorrow the work starts to refurbish the club, ahem Academy House.
Tomorrow is the 18th if I remember correctly.
All that I know is tomorrow the work starts to refurbish the club, ahem Academy House.
Tomorrow is the 18th if I remember correctly.
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Would be good if private owners are allowed access Airside through the White Building as soon as possible.
Fingers crossed for a successful operation, I know of at least three forums planning Fly Ins to celebrate the new venture.
Fingers crossed for a successful operation, I know of at least three forums planning Fly Ins to celebrate the new venture.
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I can't wait to see the revamped club and it'll be certainly a good thing to be able to fly the new aircraft. Realistically its not the decoration of the place that will cause the hold up but of course the delivery of the aircraft.
Charlie Zulu mentioned that one is already there any idea on when the others will arrive.
Im sure that there will be initially a large amount of people wanting to the test drive these ac.
Another hold up will be the fact that diesel ac require a difference check to be carried out so a bit more of a delay.
Novemeber sounds a more realistic time scale to me.
Hope to see Mel and Debs back cos somethings cant be changed. Where else can you go to get those tempting bacon sandwhiches.
Charlie Zulu mentioned that one is already there any idea on when the others will arrive.
Im sure that there will be initially a large amount of people wanting to the test drive these ac.
Another hold up will be the fact that diesel ac require a difference check to be carried out so a bit more of a delay.
Novemeber sounds a more realistic time scale to me.
Hope to see Mel and Debs back cos somethings cant be changed. Where else can you go to get those tempting bacon sandwhiches.
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From the Bacon Sandwich comment above, I believe Traumahawk71 has worked out who I am if he didn't know already. Yup believe I've now worked out which one of the instructors you are. (At last!).
Anyway the two Robins are at Gloucester waiting to be brought back to Cardiff. So that'll be two aircraft this week.
The first Diamond DA40 TDI is at Gamston ready to be delivered but Henrick (Demonstration Pilot) is away until the middle of this week so should be sometime after he gets back.
The other four Diamond DA40 TDIs are due in February (they aren't even on the Production Line yet).
Anyway Traumahawk71, I didn't think you were fussed at all about the new Diamonds. In fact I remember quite clearly that you are quite opposed to such aircraft for primary PPL training? Or did I take your views the wrong way?
Best wishes,
Charlie Zulu.
PS. I totally agree about Mel and Debbs bacon sandwiches! I've had withdrawal symptoms already and its not been a fortnight yet!
Anyway the two Robins are at Gloucester waiting to be brought back to Cardiff. So that'll be two aircraft this week.
The first Diamond DA40 TDI is at Gamston ready to be delivered but Henrick (Demonstration Pilot) is away until the middle of this week so should be sometime after he gets back.
The other four Diamond DA40 TDIs are due in February (they aren't even on the Production Line yet).
Anyway Traumahawk71, I didn't think you were fussed at all about the new Diamonds. In fact I remember quite clearly that you are quite opposed to such aircraft for primary PPL training? Or did I take your views the wrong way?
Best wishes,
Charlie Zulu.
PS. I totally agree about Mel and Debbs bacon sandwiches! I've had withdrawal symptoms already and its not been a fortnight yet!
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Main Man
In one of your postings you noted The overdraft was at about £15K in Jan 2003.To my recollection in the previous 2 months the club sold 1000 trial flights some 1hour some 1/2 hour with a total revenue of some £110K given that the bank balance was £15K in the red in Jan where do you supose the other £95K went to?
In one of your postings you noted The overdraft was at about £15K in Jan 2003.To my recollection in the previous 2 months the club sold 1000 trial flights some 1hour some 1/2 hour with a total revenue of some £110K given that the bank balance was £15K in the red in Jan where do you supose the other £95K went to?
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You conveniently over state the gross revenue and certainly the net revenues from aviator package sales were far less.
At the point of handover the current account was actually in the black and most short term debt had been settled up in full.
Prior to this the peak overdraft was about £15K against a £20K facility.
All revenue and costs were fully accounted for and are available for inspection.
Are you suggesting that a fraud has occured? if so I an others would appreciate some clarity rather than just a veiled accusation.
Some time back AM was formally invited to stop making such accusations or call in the fraud squad if he was convinced one had occurred. Needless to say he did not call in the fraud squad. but sadly many seem to feel the need to keep making the hollow accusations.
At the point of handover the current account was actually in the black and most short term debt had been settled up in full.
Prior to this the peak overdraft was about £15K against a £20K facility.
All revenue and costs were fully accounted for and are available for inspection.
Are you suggesting that a fraud has occured? if so I an others would appreciate some clarity rather than just a veiled accusation.
Some time back AM was formally invited to stop making such accusations or call in the fraud squad if he was convinced one had occurred. Needless to say he did not call in the fraud squad. but sadly many seem to feel the need to keep making the hollow accusations.
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distaff_beancounter
You seem to be very well informed and I beg you for your help and advice in this matter. Myself and many of my new found flying friends were encouraged to deposit several thousands of pounds into the now defunct CWFC during the weeks leading up to the recent bankruptcy of the club.
We are all about to meet with a solicitor and discuss a plan of action especially as Tomahawk G-BTAS and other club assets were transferred in the eleventh hour.
A.M. (CFI/MANAGER) has now gone off to fly a 737 which we all yearn to do, but we wouldn’t close the door on our mates in the process as he has done (but now he has no mates at all) What an absolute Barstourd!!!!!
I’ve read all sorts of Krap on here and listened to A.M. M.L. K.H. etc.. but at the end of the day I now don’t believe any of what they have been saying, they are all a bunch of deceitful little rats.
A.M. convinced me recently to deposit two bloody grand into my flying account, telling me that I could now have cheaper flying, knowing that he was closing the doors in favour of his big shiny jet.
PLEASE, PLEASE help me! How can I get my money back? I’m trying to fund a career in aviation and every penny counts, that Barstourd has stolen my dreams!
traumahawk71 “Bring in the Fraud Squad so that the real picture can emerge.” Well, Well, Well. Would you believe that the new owner of our Tomahawk is VERY, VERY closely associated with the fraud squad, so they probably won’t get involved in this obvious fraud…….GOT IT!!!!
Yep, you guessed right, he’s a copper!! So there’s no chance of an official investigation into this MINOR 20K FRAUD! Or is that why it was threatened on this forum? GO AHEAD Barstourds!
Just out of interest, what about the CWFC Officials(s) who illegally transferred this club asset(s) to ML, aren’t they also responsible and exposed to possible legal action? What we don’t know of course is whether or not they too are members of the protected elite POLICE FORCE!
Here’s hoping for true justice.
7vrnrd, why are you trying to divert the wrong doings of today with monotonous fabrication of events from two years ago? Good try but we’re not happy and won’t allow the new committee/managers to hide away! Oh, and why have we not seen any accounts for nearly two years? And tell me exactly what the committee has achieved for CWFC during the past two years?
I too wish the new owner of the White building good luck, he needs it!
You seem to be very well informed and I beg you for your help and advice in this matter. Myself and many of my new found flying friends were encouraged to deposit several thousands of pounds into the now defunct CWFC during the weeks leading up to the recent bankruptcy of the club.
We are all about to meet with a solicitor and discuss a plan of action especially as Tomahawk G-BTAS and other club assets were transferred in the eleventh hour.
A.M. (CFI/MANAGER) has now gone off to fly a 737 which we all yearn to do, but we wouldn’t close the door on our mates in the process as he has done (but now he has no mates at all) What an absolute Barstourd!!!!!
I’ve read all sorts of Krap on here and listened to A.M. M.L. K.H. etc.. but at the end of the day I now don’t believe any of what they have been saying, they are all a bunch of deceitful little rats.
A.M. convinced me recently to deposit two bloody grand into my flying account, telling me that I could now have cheaper flying, knowing that he was closing the doors in favour of his big shiny jet.
PLEASE, PLEASE help me! How can I get my money back? I’m trying to fund a career in aviation and every penny counts, that Barstourd has stolen my dreams!
traumahawk71 “Bring in the Fraud Squad so that the real picture can emerge.” Well, Well, Well. Would you believe that the new owner of our Tomahawk is VERY, VERY closely associated with the fraud squad, so they probably won’t get involved in this obvious fraud…….GOT IT!!!!
Yep, you guessed right, he’s a copper!! So there’s no chance of an official investigation into this MINOR 20K FRAUD! Or is that why it was threatened on this forum? GO AHEAD Barstourds!
Just out of interest, what about the CWFC Officials(s) who illegally transferred this club asset(s) to ML, aren’t they also responsible and exposed to possible legal action? What we don’t know of course is whether or not they too are members of the protected elite POLICE FORCE!
Here’s hoping for true justice.
7vrnrd, why are you trying to divert the wrong doings of today with monotonous fabrication of events from two years ago? Good try but we’re not happy and won’t allow the new committee/managers to hide away! Oh, and why have we not seen any accounts for nearly two years? And tell me exactly what the committee has achieved for CWFC during the past two years?
I too wish the new owner of the White building good luck, he needs it!
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Where's_my_2Grand
As I said I know nothing about CWFC other than what I have read on Prune. But over the years that I have been involved in General Aviation, I have seen many FTOs both, large & small, go bust, leaving students out of pocket.
In nearly all cases when an FTO goes bust, it is a limited company & a liquidator is appointed. A liquidator is legally obliged to look into the actions of the directors in the period prior to the insolvency. Therefore all creditors, which includes students who have paid deposits, can make thier complaints to the liquidator. A liquidator would certainly look into any sales of assets just prior to the insolvency to see if they were made at under value or to connected persons.
So, if anything serious has occured, in certain cicumstances the directors can be surcharged. This means that the directors have to pay money to the liquidator which goes into the funds available to the creditors.
In the case of CWFC it appears that there are two limited companies, with just one individual director between them. But from the posts on this thread, I get the impression that the companies' affairs were being run by a club committee. Even if this was so, the rules for running limited companies still apply.
It appears that accounts were prepared & audited. Most paperwork at Companies House seems correct & up to date. Except the accounts for Cardiff Wales Aviation Services Ltd for Year Ended 31st March 2003 are overdue for filing at Companies House. As regards the register of charges, it appears that the director forgot to send in 'memorandum of satisfaction' in respect of loans on aircraft that had been paid off, or for aircraft sold. All the loans that I listed in my previous post are currently shown as still outstanding.
If there are any creditors who feel hard done by, then their best course of action would be to get a liquidator appointed to both companies as soon as possible. The simplest way of doing this is to ask the director (or committee?) to take the route of a 'creditors voluntary liquidation'. Otherwise the creditors would have to make an application to the High Court for a winding up order.
If you feel strongly about this, I would suggest that you talk to any other creditors that you know of, and decide whether you want to get together to take any further action.
Please bear in mind that even if you do get a liquidator appointed, there is still no guarantee that you will get any money back. This is because in a liquidation the proceeds from the sale of assets is distributed in an order set out in the Insolvency Act. It is broadly as follows:-
-- Liquidators fees & expenses
-- Secured creditors, which is usually banks and finance companies who have lent money to the company against a charge registered at Companies House
-- Prefential creditors - such as employees for unpaid wages, Customs & Excise for VAT, Inland Revenue for PAYE/NIC
-- Unsecured creditors, including students who have paid deposits
In this case, it may well be that no money trickles down as far as to the unsecured creditors. So while you may feel agrieved & wish to take action, you still may not get any money back.
As I said I know nothing about CWFC other than what I have read on Prune. But over the years that I have been involved in General Aviation, I have seen many FTOs both, large & small, go bust, leaving students out of pocket.
In nearly all cases when an FTO goes bust, it is a limited company & a liquidator is appointed. A liquidator is legally obliged to look into the actions of the directors in the period prior to the insolvency. Therefore all creditors, which includes students who have paid deposits, can make thier complaints to the liquidator. A liquidator would certainly look into any sales of assets just prior to the insolvency to see if they were made at under value or to connected persons.
So, if anything serious has occured, in certain cicumstances the directors can be surcharged. This means that the directors have to pay money to the liquidator which goes into the funds available to the creditors.
In the case of CWFC it appears that there are two limited companies, with just one individual director between them. But from the posts on this thread, I get the impression that the companies' affairs were being run by a club committee. Even if this was so, the rules for running limited companies still apply.
It appears that accounts were prepared & audited. Most paperwork at Companies House seems correct & up to date. Except the accounts for Cardiff Wales Aviation Services Ltd for Year Ended 31st March 2003 are overdue for filing at Companies House. As regards the register of charges, it appears that the director forgot to send in 'memorandum of satisfaction' in respect of loans on aircraft that had been paid off, or for aircraft sold. All the loans that I listed in my previous post are currently shown as still outstanding.
If there are any creditors who feel hard done by, then their best course of action would be to get a liquidator appointed to both companies as soon as possible. The simplest way of doing this is to ask the director (or committee?) to take the route of a 'creditors voluntary liquidation'. Otherwise the creditors would have to make an application to the High Court for a winding up order.
If you feel strongly about this, I would suggest that you talk to any other creditors that you know of, and decide whether you want to get together to take any further action.
Please bear in mind that even if you do get a liquidator appointed, there is still no guarantee that you will get any money back. This is because in a liquidation the proceeds from the sale of assets is distributed in an order set out in the Insolvency Act. It is broadly as follows:-
-- Liquidators fees & expenses
-- Secured creditors, which is usually banks and finance companies who have lent money to the company against a charge registered at Companies House
-- Prefential creditors - such as employees for unpaid wages, Customs & Excise for VAT, Inland Revenue for PAYE/NIC
-- Unsecured creditors, including students who have paid deposits
In this case, it may well be that no money trickles down as far as to the unsecured creditors. So while you may feel agrieved & wish to take action, you still may not get any money back.
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Called in on the club today. Gary is realy going to town. Cleared upstairs, and in the proccess of re-painting.
Nice to have seen you today traumahawk71. Keep in touch.
Nice to have seen you today traumahawk71. Keep in touch.
