Cardiff Wales Flying Club (CWFC) Bankrupt
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Good News!!Private Owners - You can now access your aircraft through the White Building
There is a small administration charge of £300 per annum to allow you the honour of walking through the Academy.
If you fly once a month that's only £25 per visit
But don't worry - the car park's free, at the moment
For a group of 4 that's only £1200 pa
Bad News!!I had to have an interview with the new CFI to get my old job back.
My services are no longer required
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I don't think many of the private owners will be too impressed. with that, after all they have been used to being subsidised by the hard done by students for a long time now. 
On the other hand for those requiring access more than 3 times a month it is the best deal on the airfield at the moment.
Sorry to hear about the job, you could try Swansea
On the other hand for those requiring access more than 3 times a month it is the best deal on the airfield at the moment.
Sorry to hear about the job, you could try Swansea
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CWFC.instructor
Im sure that day will come sooner than you think. If you start saving now perhaps you'll one day be able to afford to join the new CAA and even try out a steak.
Like Main Man said theres always Swansea. Who knows you might even meet a few of your old students who can't afford to join.
Lets hope they don't price themselves out of the Market cos that is what happened to CWFC last year. The probably lost around half thier students and i'd hate to think how many PPLs.
Im sure that day will come sooner than you think. If you start saving now perhaps you'll one day be able to afford to join the new CAA and even try out a steak.
Like Main Man said theres always Swansea. Who knows you might even meet a few of your old students who can't afford to join.
Lets hope they don't price themselves out of the Market cos that is what happened to CWFC last year. The probably lost around half thier students and i'd hate to think how many PPLs.
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So are these rumours true about the £300 a year joining fee?
That is outragous just to get access to privately owned aeroplanes!!!
By the way main man says the private owners have been subsidised by hard done by students. How do you work that one out? Even though I fly a privately owned aircraft I, as well as all of the other private owner / group flyers paid the same £300 last October for membership as everyone else did.
Previous to that there was a reduced membership fee, but the EGM last year put pay to that.
I can see a mass walk out by private members in due course...
That is outragous just to get access to privately owned aeroplanes!!!
By the way main man says the private owners have been subsidised by hard done by students. How do you work that one out? Even though I fly a privately owned aircraft I, as well as all of the other private owner / group flyers paid the same £300 last October for membership as everyone else did.
Previous to that there was a reduced membership fee, but the EGM last year put pay to that.
I can see a mass walk out by private members in due course...
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Wow these rumours don't half spread.
Wonder if everyone will have to pay for their security passes from the airport as well.
No wonder not so many people can afford to fly on a regular basis when you have to fork out so much dosh to start off with.
I hear that Mel, and Debs aren't in the running for the Cafe jobs either. Now that will be a real shame cos it was always good to see them eagerly awaiting to take my order.....
Wonder if everyone will have to pay for their security passes from the airport as well.
No wonder not so many people can afford to fly on a regular basis when you have to fork out so much dosh to start off with.
I hear that Mel, and Debs aren't in the running for the Cafe jobs either. Now that will be a real shame cos it was always good to see them eagerly awaiting to take my order.....
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Well prior to that you all had it very good for a long time at £30 per year. Even then a number of the private owners aligned themselves with the now succesful destroy CWFC campaign. If only they had the forsight to see what it would cost them in the end.
£300 is a reasonable commercial fee for access through his business premises. Interesting that some people still describe CAA as a club on here, very soon they will realise that the club has gone for good and that the market forces of supply and demand now rule.
Gary has obviously quickly assessed the business benefit of giving private members subsidised access Via his lease and concluded there is none.
£300 is a reasonable commercial fee for access through his business premises. Interesting that some people still describe CAA as a club on here, very soon they will realise that the club has gone for good and that the market forces of supply and demand now rule.
Gary has obviously quickly assessed the business benefit of giving private members subsidised access Via his lease and concluded there is none.
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A clean sweep is what is called for, top to bottom with nothing left untouched.
Still don't understand how he can commence training next week, what about all those procedures that need writing?
Still don't understand how he can commence training next week, what about all those procedures that need writing?
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"A clean sweep is what is called for, top to bottom with nothing left untouched."
Well MAIN MAN you say a clean sweep, it seems that having this attitude and sweeping technique has cost them students and instructors.
To be honest i am in limbo at the moment as its not really clear what the hell is going on over there!
Are we the students allowed to go and see the club and chat to the CFI or do we have to wait until we start seeing activity over there, will the students have to pay £300 mebership as appose to the £130 or whathever it was originally.
Wish something was put in officially!! from what i can gather from friends they are losing students by the day to other clubs!
Seems to me that the CFI is trying hard to get rid of the CWFC name but in all honesty it seems he is just painting over the cracks and not filling them in, and eventually the cracks will break through!
SDM
Well MAIN MAN you say a clean sweep, it seems that having this attitude and sweeping technique has cost them students and instructors.
To be honest i am in limbo at the moment as its not really clear what the hell is going on over there!
Are we the students allowed to go and see the club and chat to the CFI or do we have to wait until we start seeing activity over there, will the students have to pay £300 mebership as appose to the £130 or whathever it was originally.
Wish something was put in officially!! from what i can gather from friends they are losing students by the day to other clubs!
Seems to me that the CFI is trying hard to get rid of the CWFC name but in all honesty it seems he is just painting over the cracks and not filling them in, and eventually the cracks will break through!
SDM
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I had to have an interview with the new CFI to get my old job back.
DTI-tupe
Perhaps the new owner has overlooked these regulations.
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From the site you gave a link to:
---- Start Quote ----
The Regulations preserve employees' terms and conditions when a business or undertaking, or part of one, is transferred to a new employer. Any provision of any agreement (whether a contract of employment or not) is void so far as it would exclude or limit the rights granted under the Regulations.
The Regulations have the effect that:
Employees employed by the previous employer when the undertaking changes hands automatically become employees of the new employer on the same terms and conditions. It is as if their contracts of employment had originally been made with the new employer. Thus employees' continuity of employment is preserved, as are their terms and conditions of employment under their contracts of employment (except for certain occupational pension rights).
Representatives of employees affected have a right to be informed about the transfer. They must also be consulted about any measures which the old or new employer envisages taking concerning affected employees.
---- End Quote ----
I can see where you are coming from but this isn't a clear case of when one employer has taken over an existing company.
The other company has ceased trading, has it not? Therefore this new company has a clean slate?
To try and crush some of these rumours, I'm going to go and speak to Gary today and ask about membership, fee for cards (if any) etc.
I am not defending him here, but the problem Gary has, as far as I can see, is that there isn't a list of membership details in the club or from anyone. The nearest he will have is the email list but that only includes a few dozen of us.
We are all welcome to visit the place and talk to the CFI, I was there all day yesterday, except when I was flying. John Davies (the new CFI) is a very pleasant chap.
---- Start Quote ----
The Regulations preserve employees' terms and conditions when a business or undertaking, or part of one, is transferred to a new employer. Any provision of any agreement (whether a contract of employment or not) is void so far as it would exclude or limit the rights granted under the Regulations.
The Regulations have the effect that:
Employees employed by the previous employer when the undertaking changes hands automatically become employees of the new employer on the same terms and conditions. It is as if their contracts of employment had originally been made with the new employer. Thus employees' continuity of employment is preserved, as are their terms and conditions of employment under their contracts of employment (except for certain occupational pension rights).
Representatives of employees affected have a right to be informed about the transfer. They must also be consulted about any measures which the old or new employer envisages taking concerning affected employees.
---- End Quote ----
I can see where you are coming from but this isn't a clear case of when one employer has taken over an existing company.
The other company has ceased trading, has it not? Therefore this new company has a clean slate?
To try and crush some of these rumours, I'm going to go and speak to Gary today and ask about membership, fee for cards (if any) etc.
I am not defending him here, but the problem Gary has, as far as I can see, is that there isn't a list of membership details in the club or from anyone. The nearest he will have is the email list but that only includes a few dozen of us.
We are all welcome to visit the place and talk to the CFI, I was there all day yesterday, except when I was flying. John Davies (the new CFI) is a very pleasant chap.
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SDM I've had enough too, so I'm off over the bridge to aeros at filton, just called them, it's £50 membership so I'm getting an extra 2 1/2 hours flying per year
It ssems that quite a few ex CWFC pilots/students are already there
It ssems that quite a few ex CWFC pilots/students are already there
Flies for fun
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distaff_b: If the previous undertaking has folded and a new company has started then TUPE doesn't apply. TUPE only applies when an undertaking has been transferred ie; the EXISTING business is sold or transferred. In this instance it APPEARS that the EXISTING business has folded and a NEW business has started.
In all honesty, it is best to forget about the old club, the new one is the ONLY one now. It's hard to swallow but true, there is virtually no possibility of there being any sort of investigation into the affairs of the old club and about no chance at all of ever getting any advance payments back. The fact is that a liquidator will be appointed to tidy up the remnants. Those who had jobs with the old set up can try for re-employment although they have no rights to employment. Generally, life will go on and some people will have learned lessons. The PPRuNe advice again stands as good as ever - "Don't pay up front " Sad but true!
In all honesty, it is best to forget about the old club, the new one is the ONLY one now. It's hard to swallow but true, there is virtually no possibility of there being any sort of investigation into the affairs of the old club and about no chance at all of ever getting any advance payments back. The fact is that a liquidator will be appointed to tidy up the remnants. Those who had jobs with the old set up can try for re-employment although they have no rights to employment. Generally, life will go on and some people will have learned lessons. The PPRuNe advice again stands as good as ever - "Don't pay up front " Sad but true!
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TUPE
Charlie Zulu & Sensible
Firstly I should make it clear that I am an accountant and not a solicitor.
CWFC did cease trading, but it has not gone into receivership or liquidation. If it had gone into liquidation, then, as I understand it, there is a greater chance of TUPE not applying.
Purely from what I have read on this thread, another company or person(s) has taken over a substantial part of the assets, premises, business and customers of CWFC.
From my experience, TUPE may apply in these circumstances. But I say 'may' rather than 'will'.
Please bear in mind, the whole concept of TUPE came about, specifically to stop the situation whereby one business ceased, a 'Phoenix' business started shortly afterwards, but all the employees were left high and dry and jobless. It is now fairly difficult to structure such a new business in a way that does avoid TUPE applying.
That is about the extent of my knowledge/experience of TUPE.
So, where is the 'Flying Lawyer' when we need him?
Firstly I should make it clear that I am an accountant and not a solicitor.
CWFC did cease trading, but it has not gone into receivership or liquidation. If it had gone into liquidation, then, as I understand it, there is a greater chance of TUPE not applying.
Purely from what I have read on this thread, another company or person(s) has taken over a substantial part of the assets, premises, business and customers of CWFC.
From my experience, TUPE may apply in these circumstances. But I say 'may' rather than 'will'.
Please bear in mind, the whole concept of TUPE came about, specifically to stop the situation whereby one business ceased, a 'Phoenix' business started shortly afterwards, but all the employees were left high and dry and jobless. It is now fairly difficult to structure such a new business in a way that does avoid TUPE applying.
That is about the extent of my knowledge/experience of TUPE.
So, where is the 'Flying Lawyer' when we need him?
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Spitfire747, that may not be the case. There was recently an Inland Revenue and Employment Tribunal decision on the case of a self employed flying instructor, in which the two outfits disagreed on whether the individual in question was employed or self employed, and so they ended up being treated differently by different Government bodies. It might be that you think you were self employed but with a bit of spade-work, you may find that you were not. (Taxation :PubTolley Publishing Vol 153 Page 547 26 August 2005)
I suspect that the real issue is as has already been covered, has the new outfit taken over the other, or is it a totally unconnected set-up. If it is the latter, I suspect you have nothing. Just because a business with a similar trade occupies the building of a previous company does not mean they are connected or that one has taken over the other.
Strange but true
I suspect that the real issue is as has already been covered, has the new outfit taken over the other, or is it a totally unconnected set-up. If it is the latter, I suspect you have nothing. Just because a business with a similar trade occupies the building of a previous company does not mean they are connected or that one has taken over the other.
Strange but true