Easiest £35,000 I ever borrowed

[Iceman1976]

CAptain Ratpup, you posts make interesting reading, but in your other post you had a nice bank job and now you have jacked it in! you didnt say it was poor pay in your other post! you said it was ok!.

3 main points come to mind, which I dont know if you discussed with the bank but It would be good to hear your answers:

1. What are the repayments on 35k and over what period?

2. How are you going to pay it back in 2006 if you havent got a pilots job?. are you gonna go back to work for the bank for "poor pay"? Judging by your earlier post, telling us how much you had to fork out per month and what you earned, the bank could be deemed to be irresponsible, lending you that kinda money. Whos gonna cover your bills whilst you are at a flying school?

3. What are your chances of getting a pilots job, and how are you going to find one?

Did the bank ask you these questions? you didnt mention it before.


ps...WWW made some fantastic points there, and i would agree that is it worth taking out a loan over ten years, and have that kinda ball and chain around your neck! considering what u will earn. but having said that, everyone is not in a position to save, due to monthly outgoings etc.

[Kempus]

hi,

Well just had a knock back about a loan because i could not offer enough "personal financial comitment".

What exactly does this mean? If i had the finacial comitment i would not be going for the loan in the first place. I rent so dont have a house to put up but have got the chance of a career break at work to go back to if i dont get a job straight away and have sat tests and been accepted on the Astraeus TRSS type course. What do i do now? was the living expenses part that seem to catch me out as they were interested until i mentioned it!

Any ideas?

kempus

[tom24]

£53k ish is a lot of money to ask for. In my experiences with the studies loan they seemed to encourage the extra borrowing for further living expenses!

If you saw HSBC, then i suggest you try other branches.

Out of interest, what branch did you go to?

Can a relative put up security? Though it is a massive favour to ask.

[Kempus]

hi,

went to the glasgow branch (profile a little out of date) and they were interested but as i said it was the living expenses part.

I've a relative willing to be gaurantor but to secure against property is too much beside the mortgage lenders have first call on the house.

There maybe an option of going part time for the first 9 months up too the CPL/IR stage which would cut the 10k a year HSBC say i need to live on. As far as i'm aware there is a young lady on the course already doing it this way, may have to get in touch with her somehow!

kempus

[jamespollard]

insider dealing.....

i used to be a manager for HSBC before quitting to do the FATPLs.

With regards to the Prof Studies loan, make sure you have a back up plan. Most lenders will want a safety net either in the way of security or another profession that you can fall back on incase another 911 happens and you have no way of paying the loan back, other than as a pilot.
Life and Critical Illness is normally mandatory and its a good idea to get more than the amount you borrow as the rates are cheaper and the interest will accrue whilst the loan is not being paid over the 2 year grace period.
Before you get the HSBC loan, get a Career Development Loan first as this is interest free for the first 2 years. When the payments start on the Career Development Loan the best thing to do is refinance it via a personal loan as the interest rate is about 8.5% and you can do better than this.
HSBC will want you to provide some funds to the training they will not lend 100% unless you have excellent track records with them or good security.
IF you secure the loan against your house or parents ensure that you get independant legal advice first so you know what you are entering into. The law regarding the loan differs from that of mortgage law and you dont have the same rights if you are unable to pay it back
Go to a big branch also as smaller branches dont have sufficient lending authority to agree the loans - only certain managers can sign off these deals.
happy landings

[Kempus]

Hi,

Now with this loan my parents have offered to go gaurantor but will not secure the loan against property. I have made several calls to the Kidlington branch as i guess they are familiar to this kind of loan but after leaving numerous messages i have failed to get a call back (good customer service????) so what is the differencebetween having it secured and having a guarantor?

Anyone with experience of this?

kempus

[Kempus]

Still never got a call back so gave them a ring.

"what are you calling us for?" "We only deal with OAT students"

thats how the conversation went at the kidlington branch today when asking for advice!

kempus

[EGAC_Ramper]

Well only thing is to try other branches namely the larger ones.Belfast branch I went to I have had no problems but like yourself the phones can be darn annoying if trying to sepak to someone in particular.


Regards

[jamespollard]

hiya
secured means that if the loan is defaulted or cannot be serviced in terms of repayments or covering the interest that the house could be repossessed.
guarantor means that the loan payments and not the whole amount are covered. so if on a monthly basis you cannot pay the debt, then the guarantor would have to pay this amount.
the bank may let you have some of the loan unsecured and some either secured or guaranteed.
i cannot over emphasis, having been a bank manager, that you should get independant legal advice before securing 50000 against someone elses house.
i have seen these loans go wrong, but the majority are paid back.

[skyman68]

this is foolish! sorry for my bad english.
actually Europe and UK is plenty of unemployed pilots with turbojet experience and you think by taking money from a bank, you will get a job and refund your loan...ah ah ah!

my parent asked me if i wanted to borrow more money for a type rating, and I said no.
do not borrow moeny, go on a modular training and start first with a PP in the US, or canada, or whatever.

[Aerobat Boy]

And so because one chap says that borrowing money is not the right way to do what you want for the rest of your life, he has to be right ? Wrong !!

If you want to borrow the money mate you borrow it. You could be dead in 5 years time or dying from some horrible illness. Borrow the money, realise your dream and then live each day as it comes because you never know what's around the corner.

Who wants to save for 3-5 years when you could do it now ! Who knows what might happen. Yes you could be impoverished but damned happy. I tried to save for advanced courses and you can do it if you switch off the part of your brain that has to deal with the same boring, crushingly depressing work, jobs, company, people, place, country day in day out. Physchologically, I think you are doing the best thing.

Different people, different ways of doing things. There's not a right or wrong way to do things, but there is a way that suits YOU and not the other guy !

You go for it and do what you feel is right. You'll love every minute of it if it meens you're going to get your dream !

[scallaghan]

I am saving rather then getting a loan

Hi

I went to HSBC and didnt think much of them. The person who saw me had to ring several departments to find out that they did a career loan for pilots.

To be honest I didnt think any of the banks offered good solutions. I even considered those sponsorship scheme but didnt like some of those either.

I completed my PPL back in Jan and have been doing Bristol ground school along with flying at weekends to build my hours.

Starting to save like mad, more so after christmas and am doing my night rating. Also starting to consider a CAA IMC rating to get a good ground for the JAA IR later on in my training.

Best to take you time, get a good grounding on the studies stage by stage and not get a large loan.

Cheers

Sean

[mattd2k]

HSBC in Brighton/Sussex area

Without hijacking this thread, I was wondering if anyone who has been successful in applying for a Professional Studies Loan with HSBC has done so with any of the branches in the Brighton/Sussex area?

Were the staff clued up on the loan? I am currently doing my CPL in Florida, but am back in Shoreham in the New Year and think I may need to pay them a visit to see if they can help with some financing for my IR.

Any information would be appreciated.
Matt

[EGAC_Ramper]

Although I'm going through the Belfast branch please feel free to PM me for details on the process I am going through,have been approved and sorting out the final details.


Regards

[MorningGlory]

I read earlier in this post that a young enthusiastic guy has just got a £35K loan from HSBC, and then what WWW had to say with caution about repayments.

First of all £35K WILL NOT pay for all your modular training and living costs if you're not working during this time, no matter which school you go to or which ever country you part train for your JAR license.

Three years ago I started hour building in the states (already had a ppl), then continued the rest up to MCC part time while working. Even with being prudent, and working while training, my total all in costs for a JAA frozen ATPL and MCC was £55K. Be careful with regard to what the schools tell you, they are very convincing when you have really no idea yet how it all works..

With regard to repayments, I can assure you WWW, is not wrong. I'm now lucky enough to be flying a jet for a living and earning a good income, however, as WWW said, I'm paying a third of my income in training loan repayments, and drive a ten year old banger... Be careful my friend!

MG.

[Grass strip basher]

Having worked in the world of finance for the past 5 years I am gobsmacked at the amounts of money wannabees are willing to borrow to chase their dream (£50-100,000.... geeez! )

WWW hit it right on the head... the repayments alone IF (and thats a big IF) you get a job will mean living at or on the bread line for years..... oh yeah but that doesn't matter because you are "flying"!

Geeez take the blinkers off and listen to some of the guys who post on Pprune who have been there/done that and are kind enough to spend their time and effort warning you of some of the potential pit falls.

Borrowing that amount of money = bonkers in my book..... go out get a job save a bucket load of money and use that to fund at least part of your training.... yeah you'll have to make sacrifices but you don't get anything in life unless you work at it... patience is a virtue as they say, and if you want it bad enough it will happen without your local branch of HSBC owning your ass for years to come

[scallaghan]

I agree with the above comment. Best save cash.

Also someone mentioned if they visited a HSBC brancn in Sussex.

I live in West Sussex and when I was investigating the bank financing visited a local HSBC. I didnt find them that helpful, the member of staff I met was not aware of any scheme's for pilots had to make several phone calls to a head office.

Personally I am saving at work, hour building when possible and studying in the evenings for those modular ATPL exams.

Trying to avoid the bank

The question I have is whether it is really worth going from a PPL to f/ATPL. Reason I ask this is I see many flying instructors from a few years ago wanting airline work but not able to get it and not getting paid a great deal of cash.

If its about flying you enjoy, perhaps a PPL, IMC rating and a share in a PFA plane is the way to go. Personally I am border line at present but thought I would make that decision after seeing how I get on with the ATPL exams and reviewing the situation then.

Also I saw the chap in one of the above threads is also near Shoreham. I believe EFT (European Flight Training) are running out of that airport. I heard they are starting up U.K side CPL and IR training. I know at the moment some of their students from the U.S side finish their IR at Shoreham in the sim and last few hours in a twin.

I was considering using them to do my whole IR training here in the U.K and live nearby so I didnt to live down in Bournemouth.

I believe they take some of their students over to France for approaches and also down the Bournemouth.

[crazypilot]

Hi All,

I seem to be in the same boat as many here - always wanted to be a pilot, have a PPL (since I was 18, now 22) and currently in an office job which, even though it is totally to do with aviation, just does my head in through the shear boredom each day. Had an interview with an airline last week for a much more interesting job but unfortunately didn't get it. So still stuck here. Current salary ain't great - been with the company for the whole of 2 months since graduating from my MSc and have a hell of a lot of student loan to start repaying so taking out another loan just isn't an option at the moment.

I do sincerely hope that someday I will be able to start training properly to become a commercial pilot and just currently really envy one of my mates who became a pilot when he was 18 (10 years ago) on a cadet scheme, now earns a fortune, yet moans that his job is boring...he should see what I have to do on a daily basis.

Anyway, can I ask, what age did most of you guys now flying for airlines originally start up with it all - if you were me (at 22 yrs old), when would you realistically say to go for it before it is too late? My friend says not to bother - it's alright for him to say, but there is no way I can stick an office job for too long...

Cheers

CP

[MorningGlory]

You've got all the time in the world, don't be so impatient, I didn't even start my PPL until I was 24!

[crazypilot]

MorningGlory

Did you follow on with your ATPL straight after completing your PPL - i.e. when did you begin commercial pilot training?

Impatient --- with ADD, that's my middle-name !

Cheers

CP