When do you learn what, on the way to the flight deck?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Farnham
Age: 42
Posts: 110
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
When do you learn what, on the way to the flight deck?
Hi All.
I'm about to start down in Jerez, having been lucky enough to be selected to join the Britannia scheme - I was just trying to work out roughly what's going to happen to me over the next 2 years or so, and was wondering if anyone had any ideas:
The Jerez course spits you out the end with (I guess) a CPL, which will have taught you to fly twin engines (possibly a teeny bit of jets), and therefore know the basics of general flight (how to turn, take off, land, not stall etc.)
Where I get a bit confused is where you learn things like (in no particular order:
- how to do a walkround (?type rating)
- how to evacuate an a/c (?type rating)
- how rostering and scheduling works (?after type rating but before line training)
- what kind of thing to say on the PA (?line training)
- how to plan a flight (basics in CPL, but company specific stuff during line training)
- when you turn the seatbelt signs off (?line training)
- etc...
I.e. what would be the general content of each of flight training school, type rating, line training with the airline, then being let loose on the a/c (I guess you have to have had all the training you need before you're 'freed' from the training captain).
One last point - will an airline typically give you loads of its own groundschool between type rating and line training?
Thanks in advance for any comments.
Cheers
NW3
I'm about to start down in Jerez, having been lucky enough to be selected to join the Britannia scheme - I was just trying to work out roughly what's going to happen to me over the next 2 years or so, and was wondering if anyone had any ideas:
The Jerez course spits you out the end with (I guess) a CPL, which will have taught you to fly twin engines (possibly a teeny bit of jets), and therefore know the basics of general flight (how to turn, take off, land, not stall etc.)
Where I get a bit confused is where you learn things like (in no particular order:
- how to do a walkround (?type rating)
- how to evacuate an a/c (?type rating)
- how rostering and scheduling works (?after type rating but before line training)
- what kind of thing to say on the PA (?line training)
- how to plan a flight (basics in CPL, but company specific stuff during line training)
- when you turn the seatbelt signs off (?line training)
- etc...
I.e. what would be the general content of each of flight training school, type rating, line training with the airline, then being let loose on the a/c (I guess you have to have had all the training you need before you're 'freed' from the training captain).
One last point - will an airline typically give you loads of its own groundschool between type rating and line training?
Thanks in advance for any comments.
Cheers
NW3
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: UAE
Age: 44
Posts: 465
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
hi,
Frustrating when no one replies to your post so i thought i may suggest that it get moved to either the sponorship or questions forum as this one is for wannabes which you really aint any more you lucky git!
Think most of the things you ask are standard operating procedures which vary from company to company so will be line training. Walk around is mainly the same you learn in flight school but just adapted to a bigger plane and as for pa's not sure but i do know you get some books on it!
Before the green eyed monster looms its ugly head i shall leave now! Not sure if any of the above is correct but talking to pilots at work its the impression i get but just dont quote me on any of it.
Keep us all updated on what your up too and how your getting on! Congrats again and good luck!
kempus
Frustrating when no one replies to your post so i thought i may suggest that it get moved to either the sponorship or questions forum as this one is for wannabes which you really aint any more you lucky git!
Think most of the things you ask are standard operating procedures which vary from company to company so will be line training. Walk around is mainly the same you learn in flight school but just adapted to a bigger plane and as for pa's not sure but i do know you get some books on it!
Before the green eyed monster looms its ugly head i shall leave now! Not sure if any of the above is correct but talking to pilots at work its the impression i get but just dont quote me on any of it.
Keep us all updated on what your up too and how your getting on! Congrats again and good luck!
kempus
Why do it if it's not fun?
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Bournemouth
Posts: 4,779
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'll add my bit, although since I haven't done a type rating and I don't work for an airline (and in fact I haven't even done an integrated course), a lot of this is what I think probably happens.
Basically, you will do the following:
1) PPL - or an integrated equivalent - on a single-engined aircraft.
2) CPL/IR, including, at some point, a multi-engine rating on a light twin-engined aircraft.
3) Type rating - which may or may not be tailored to an airline's requirements
4) Line training with an airline
You will learn what is relevant at each stage. So, to go through your list one by one:
a) Walkaround - you will learn to do a walkaround on a single-engined aircraft from one of your very first lessons. Each time you move to a new aircraft, you will learn the walkaround for that aircraft - so at the very least you will learn the walkaround for the basic aircraft you use for your initial training, possibly for a more complex single-engined aircraft, then for the twin-engined aircraft, and then for whichever aircraft you get a type-rating for.
b) Evacuation - exactly the same as the walkaround, except that evacuation from most light aicraft is exactly the same, so you will probably cover this in your very first lesson, and won't need to learn a new procedure until you do a type-rating.
c) Rostering/scheduling sounds like the kind of thing you will learn about on the line.
d) PA and seatbelt signs are all airline-specific. This, I would think, will be covered to some extent during the type rating, but unless the type rating is tailored to the specific airline it may have to be re-learnt during line training.
e) Flight planning varies depending on the type of flight. You will learn to plan a visual flight for your PPL (or integrated equivalent), and will refine the methods used for the CPL. Planning an instrument flight is different, and will be covered on your instrument rating. And once you move to jets, the differences in altitude and speed would, I would imagine, introduce some new planning issues which would be covered on your first type rating.
Any corrections from those who have been there, done that are, of course, welcome!
FFF
-------------
Basically, you will do the following:
1) PPL - or an integrated equivalent - on a single-engined aircraft.
2) CPL/IR, including, at some point, a multi-engine rating on a light twin-engined aircraft.
3) Type rating - which may or may not be tailored to an airline's requirements
4) Line training with an airline
You will learn what is relevant at each stage. So, to go through your list one by one:
a) Walkaround - you will learn to do a walkaround on a single-engined aircraft from one of your very first lessons. Each time you move to a new aircraft, you will learn the walkaround for that aircraft - so at the very least you will learn the walkaround for the basic aircraft you use for your initial training, possibly for a more complex single-engined aircraft, then for the twin-engined aircraft, and then for whichever aircraft you get a type-rating for.
b) Evacuation - exactly the same as the walkaround, except that evacuation from most light aicraft is exactly the same, so you will probably cover this in your very first lesson, and won't need to learn a new procedure until you do a type-rating.
c) Rostering/scheduling sounds like the kind of thing you will learn about on the line.
d) PA and seatbelt signs are all airline-specific. This, I would think, will be covered to some extent during the type rating, but unless the type rating is tailored to the specific airline it may have to be re-learnt during line training.
e) Flight planning varies depending on the type of flight. You will learn to plan a visual flight for your PPL (or integrated equivalent), and will refine the methods used for the CPL. Planning an instrument flight is different, and will be covered on your instrument rating. And once you move to jets, the differences in altitude and speed would, I would imagine, introduce some new planning issues which would be covered on your first type rating.
Any corrections from those who have been there, done that are, of course, welcome!
FFF
-------------
Join Date: Feb 2000
Posts: 292
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
NW3 hope you enjoy your time at Jerez.
The question you ask and the way you've phrased it show me to some extent why you've got yourself a sponsorship. You've shown a genuine interest in the "big picture" and realise that when you come out with your shiny new F-ATPL/IR you are in many ways only at the beginning of a very steep learning curve. But enough praise from me!
The stuff you're talking about will be covered to some extent by the airline when you join. But you will essentially be "green", and expected to use your own initiative to find out what you need to know about crewing, scheduling etc.
On the type rating course you'll do two to three weeks groundschool covering all the systems on the aircraft with exams. Then into the sim for about twelve (varies between operators) 4 hour sessions teamed up usually with another trainee f/o. You'll fly all the profiles, eg take-offs, SIDs, engine failures, approaches of all kinds, emergency descents, hydraulic failures, and all sorts of non-normals, etc etc. At the end of this a skill test - a bit like an expanded IR with emergencies.
Somewhere around this time you'll do smoke drills in a cabin mock-up, evacuation down the proper slides, fire training and dinghy drills in the pool. All this usually with cabin crew trainers, and often with experienced Captains and f/o's doing their recurrent training (except the dinghy drills, which only need to be done once on joining).
Also a performance course in here somewhere to. This will teach you to use company performance charts and get max take-off weight and V speeds for all sorts of runway and aircraft configs.
Then you'll start your line training, still feeling very very very green. This is when you'll get down to the nitty gritty of actually performimg as a part of the crew, and really learning to fly and operate the aircraft for real.
All of this will feel like a huge rush, and you'll most likely suffer from information overload, but it all works out in the end. After about six months on line you'll really start to settle down into the way of the job, and there'll be less situations which seem totally new to you.
Airlines will definitely not spoon feed you, so you'll find a lot of it's up to you. The answers are usually somewhere in the company manuals. If not there, then ask someone. And the rest comes down to a lot of experience. That's why it generally takes a lot of time to get into the left hand seat. You'll find stages in your career when you think you know it all - 100 hours, getting your IR, six months on type and 1000 hours spring to mind. Then around 3000 hours when you're itching to get a command. Then about 1000 hours of command time etc. It's when you look back at these milestones that you realise you had so much more to learn but didn't know it at the time. That's my experience anyway.
Main thing is, don't worry about all this at the moment, just climb the ladder one rung at a time, and really enjoy your time at Jerez.
The best of luck.
The question you ask and the way you've phrased it show me to some extent why you've got yourself a sponsorship. You've shown a genuine interest in the "big picture" and realise that when you come out with your shiny new F-ATPL/IR you are in many ways only at the beginning of a very steep learning curve. But enough praise from me!
The stuff you're talking about will be covered to some extent by the airline when you join. But you will essentially be "green", and expected to use your own initiative to find out what you need to know about crewing, scheduling etc.
On the type rating course you'll do two to three weeks groundschool covering all the systems on the aircraft with exams. Then into the sim for about twelve (varies between operators) 4 hour sessions teamed up usually with another trainee f/o. You'll fly all the profiles, eg take-offs, SIDs, engine failures, approaches of all kinds, emergency descents, hydraulic failures, and all sorts of non-normals, etc etc. At the end of this a skill test - a bit like an expanded IR with emergencies.
Somewhere around this time you'll do smoke drills in a cabin mock-up, evacuation down the proper slides, fire training and dinghy drills in the pool. All this usually with cabin crew trainers, and often with experienced Captains and f/o's doing their recurrent training (except the dinghy drills, which only need to be done once on joining).
Also a performance course in here somewhere to. This will teach you to use company performance charts and get max take-off weight and V speeds for all sorts of runway and aircraft configs.
Then you'll start your line training, still feeling very very very green. This is when you'll get down to the nitty gritty of actually performimg as a part of the crew, and really learning to fly and operate the aircraft for real.
All of this will feel like a huge rush, and you'll most likely suffer from information overload, but it all works out in the end. After about six months on line you'll really start to settle down into the way of the job, and there'll be less situations which seem totally new to you.
Airlines will definitely not spoon feed you, so you'll find a lot of it's up to you. The answers are usually somewhere in the company manuals. If not there, then ask someone. And the rest comes down to a lot of experience. That's why it generally takes a lot of time to get into the left hand seat. You'll find stages in your career when you think you know it all - 100 hours, getting your IR, six months on type and 1000 hours spring to mind. Then around 3000 hours when you're itching to get a command. Then about 1000 hours of command time etc. It's when you look back at these milestones that you realise you had so much more to learn but didn't know it at the time. That's my experience anyway.
Main thing is, don't worry about all this at the moment, just climb the ladder one rung at a time, and really enjoy your time at Jerez.
The best of luck.
