CAA validations
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CAA validations
Anyone knows the answer to that?
I have an ICAO ATPL (EU)and operate fo years now as f/o for a uk airline, under UK CAA VALIDATION which I renew every year. My validation is to operate as co-pilot.
Although I have thousands of hours , I have very very little command time (because I started very young on jets). Cant get JAR ATPL conversion (no 1500h cmd) . In order to get a validation for commander I know I need 1500hr command as well. Could these hours be PIC under supervision hours on multi-pilot ops? . They cannot be PIC u/s for JAA ATPL. Can they be for a PIC validation I wonder.
It is very unfair I reckon , to be living in Britain for all these years , see people from all over europe coming over , forming huge queues in CAA gatwick, getting JAR licences simply because they have command time, without having any intention to work here. On the other end are some of us living and working here -struggling to get in touch with Licencing- who are basically deprived of the right to get a command irrespective of large airline experience with a reputable UK operator.
Anyway , if anyone has a clue , please respond, thanks
I have an ICAO ATPL (EU)and operate fo years now as f/o for a uk airline, under UK CAA VALIDATION which I renew every year. My validation is to operate as co-pilot.
Although I have thousands of hours , I have very very little command time (because I started very young on jets). Cant get JAR ATPL conversion (no 1500h cmd) . In order to get a validation for commander I know I need 1500hr command as well. Could these hours be PIC under supervision hours on multi-pilot ops? . They cannot be PIC u/s for JAA ATPL. Can they be for a PIC validation I wonder.
It is very unfair I reckon , to be living in Britain for all these years , see people from all over europe coming over , forming huge queues in CAA gatwick, getting JAR licences simply because they have command time, without having any intention to work here. On the other end are some of us living and working here -struggling to get in touch with Licencing- who are basically deprived of the right to get a command irrespective of large airline experience with a reputable UK operator.
Anyway , if anyone has a clue , please respond, thanks
PPRuNe Handmaiden
I am not sure exactly where you're coming from.
What is the basis of your validation? Is it from a UK CPL? What ICAO licence do you have?
A possible way is to go back to the country who issued your ATPL, get them to issue you with a JAR one and then see the CAA.
I was under the impression that the validation gave you a year to then do the appropriate JAR exams. I haven't heard of someone getting a validation recently, before the UK went JAR there were a few foreigners flying over here on validations but they still had to do the UK CAA ATPL exams in that year Once they had the UK CAA ATPL (and all the hours) they could then swap it for a JAR ATPL (after paying a fee of course)
You don't need 1500 hours in command to get a JAR ATPL. Just 1500 hours based on the requirements as spelled out in LASORS. (CAA document). (PIC, Dual, PIC U/S, P2 all counted)
If you have a foreign ICAO ATPL with 1500 hours in command on +30 tonne aircraft with a total time of +3000 hours then that is a different thing. (You need to do 2 exams and get a check ride done with the CAA observing)
Not quite sure what the beef is with the European folk coming here to get their licence and go home again???
What is the basis of your validation? Is it from a UK CPL? What ICAO licence do you have?
A possible way is to go back to the country who issued your ATPL, get them to issue you with a JAR one and then see the CAA.
I was under the impression that the validation gave you a year to then do the appropriate JAR exams. I haven't heard of someone getting a validation recently, before the UK went JAR there were a few foreigners flying over here on validations but they still had to do the UK CAA ATPL exams in that year Once they had the UK CAA ATPL (and all the hours) they could then swap it for a JAR ATPL (after paying a fee of course)
You don't need 1500 hours in command to get a JAR ATPL. Just 1500 hours based on the requirements as spelled out in LASORS. (CAA document). (PIC, Dual, PIC U/S, P2 all counted)
If you have a foreign ICAO ATPL with 1500 hours in command on +30 tonne aircraft with a total time of +3000 hours then that is a different thing. (You need to do 2 exams and get a check ride done with the CAA observing)
Not quite sure what the beef is with the European folk coming here to get their licence and go home again???
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Thanks for the reply redsnail.
My validation is based on a ICAO ATPL and was not originally issued recently but 6 years ago.
See I was unfortunate enough to move to England right at the begining of the JAR FCL transition and although they were happy to issue me with an old style UK CAA validation (which they still honor every year thank god), they were not issuing UK CAA ATPLs any more.
They offered me the option of applying for the JAR ATPL , but since I did not have 1500hrs pic in 30K+ they changed their mind and gave me 2 options really 1) do the full 14 subject ATPL exams 2) wait until my country issues JAR licences ( as you suggested) and follow the "mutual recognition" path.
Although my country achieved JAR-FCL status , by the time the actually issue them my command opportunity could be lost.
Sitting through the ATPL exams all over again for third time (I have additionally FAA atpl) is out of the question as a matter of principal, time , and money (if that is what you are suggesting).
I dont find anything wrong with our colleagues trying to get a JAR licence over here without planning to work here, neither with the CAA trying to raise extra revenue from them . The point I was trying to make is that the CAA tries to make the extra dosh without having the capacity to deal with the local pilots AND the pilots who work on other countries. (anyone who has tried to ring CAA licencing the last 5 years knows exactly what I am talking about , 25min waiting is the best I have achieved)
My validation is based on a ICAO ATPL and was not originally issued recently but 6 years ago.
See I was unfortunate enough to move to England right at the begining of the JAR FCL transition and although they were happy to issue me with an old style UK CAA validation (which they still honor every year thank god), they were not issuing UK CAA ATPLs any more.
They offered me the option of applying for the JAR ATPL , but since I did not have 1500hrs pic in 30K+ they changed their mind and gave me 2 options really 1) do the full 14 subject ATPL exams 2) wait until my country issues JAR licences ( as you suggested) and follow the "mutual recognition" path.
Although my country achieved JAR-FCL status , by the time the actually issue them my command opportunity could be lost.
Sitting through the ATPL exams all over again for third time (I have additionally FAA atpl) is out of the question as a matter of principal, time , and money (if that is what you are suggesting).
I dont find anything wrong with our colleagues trying to get a JAR licence over here without planning to work here, neither with the CAA trying to raise extra revenue from them . The point I was trying to make is that the CAA tries to make the extra dosh without having the capacity to deal with the local pilots AND the pilots who work on other countries. (anyone who has tried to ring CAA licencing the last 5 years knows exactly what I am talking about , 25min waiting is the best I have achieved)
PPRuNe Handmaiden
I don't work in the CAA (I wish I did... 
go and rattle some cages)
You are caught between a rock and a hard place. I gather you've spoken to your company about where you stand?
Is it possible for you to fly over to the original country and get your JAR ATPL issued there? That looks like your best bet. Doing the 14 exams will take a couple of months...
Have you gone and seen the CAA in Gatwick?
Phoning them is next to useless unless you can get someone on the "inside" on your side and you phone them direct.
Have you emailed them? Sometimes that helps.
Other than that I cannot think of a way around it.
go and rattle some cages)You are caught between a rock and a hard place. I gather you've spoken to your company about where you stand?
Is it possible for you to fly over to the original country and get your JAR ATPL issued there? That looks like your best bet. Doing the 14 exams will take a couple of months...
Have you gone and seen the CAA in Gatwick?
Phoning them is next to useless unless you can get someone on the "inside" on your side and you phone them direct.
Have you emailed them? Sometimes that helps.
Other than that I cannot think of a way around it.
