Does anyone knows what happed to BAE Systems
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Does anyone knows what happed to BAE Systems
I know that BAE was sold. One of the guys who bought part of it is Oscar Sordo ( the chief of finances). But I do not know what is the new name of the FTO and how is FTO doing.
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The General manager (Peter Sadler), Head of Training(Bob Anderson), and Oscar were all involved in a management buy out.
So whilst the BAE name has officially left the school, as far as I'm aware nothing much has changed, other than a few staff having left due to restructuring.
The students I know who are still out there still seem to be enjoying it. It is now called Flight Training Europe. (Basically the same as before but with the BAE Systems part removed.)
So whilst the BAE name has officially left the school, as far as I'm aware nothing much has changed, other than a few staff having left due to restructuring.
The students I know who are still out there still seem to be enjoying it. It is now called Flight Training Europe. (Basically the same as before but with the BAE Systems part removed.)
Last edited by zerouali; 20th Feb 2004 at 06:18.
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Thanki you.
Do you know under wich authority are they working ( CAA or the spanish one DGAC)?
I know there wasnt many students a few mounths ago. Do you know how many do they have now?
Do you know under wich authority are they working ( CAA or the spanish one DGAC)?
I know there wasnt many students a few mounths ago. Do you know how many do they have now?
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peb
That is the sort of speculation that you are not qualified to make unless you know the financial details of the takeover and running of the company. Even if the capacity is greater, 45 students at a time is enough for a viable school, given correct staffing and aircraft levels and the right leasing agreements. Such rumour mongering can only damage the reputation of the school unfairly.
This is from an employee of a competitor of FTE, who wishes them well.
That is the sort of speculation that you are not qualified to make unless you know the financial details of the takeover and running of the company. Even if the capacity is greater, 45 students at a time is enough for a viable school, given correct staffing and aircraft levels and the right leasing agreements. Such rumour mongering can only damage the reputation of the school unfairly.
This is from an employee of a competitor of FTE, who wishes them well.
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I am. Of Bournemouth Commercial Flight Training, a competitor of FTE in that we both train people for JAA commercial licences. Many of my 3000-odd posts have been talking about the flight training industry or helping people out with their groundschool, and have never hidden my identity (I do not use my real name, but many people here have met me personally and know it. I often mention that I teach groundschool, and especially General Navigation. I am the only one here who teaches that subject. If you call my employer it is not hard to find out who I am, or even to talk to me!).
However I know very little about Jerez in the last couple of years. I don't know their staffing levels or what financial burdens they have on ongoing leases, or what their financial backing is like. I cannot say if they are viable with 45 students, but then neither can peb unless he has more information than he is letting on.
However I know very little about Jerez in the last couple of years. I don't know their staffing levels or what financial burdens they have on ongoing leases, or what their financial backing is like. I cannot say if they are viable with 45 students, but then neither can peb unless he has more information than he is letting on.
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A few things:
I sorry but I have say it that was my OPINION that they are not going to last long. I think that I can think by self.
I can tell you like BAE Sytems has a capacity of 150 people and if they have 45 people I do not think that sounds good. They have more staff than students or around.
I also know that BAE tryed to sell the FTO to an other spanish FTO (I going even to give you names) call AeroMadrid. But the problem was that they wanted to sell it with the loans includeded. And AeroMadrid reject it. So the finacial situation do not sound good to me because they should have them still.
I aslo that in Noverber every one thought that the FTO was closing down, even their own staff.
And not trying to damage to anyone I just give the facts that I know and my opinion. Everyone can think by them self.
I do not have anything to do with BAE.
By the way do you know what happend to them with Air Kalifa? I do.
How manys companys are sending people to do their training there?
I sorry but I have say it that was my OPINION that they are not going to last long. I think that I can think by self.
I can tell you like BAE Sytems has a capacity of 150 people and if they have 45 people I do not think that sounds good. They have more staff than students or around.
I also know that BAE tryed to sell the FTO to an other spanish FTO (I going even to give you names) call AeroMadrid. But the problem was that they wanted to sell it with the loans includeded. And AeroMadrid reject it. So the finacial situation do not sound good to me because they should have them still.
I aslo that in Noverber every one thought that the FTO was closing down, even their own staff.
And not trying to damage to anyone I just give the facts that I know and my opinion. Everyone can think by them self.
I do not have anything to do with BAE.
By the way do you know what happend to them with Air Kalifa? I do.
How manys companys are sending people to do their training there?
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peb,
a few facts:
In November we all knew that Peter Sadler (the GM) had put forward a bid by his consortium of 3 (including himself, Bob Anderson and Oscar Sordo), we knew that this was the prefered bid and we knew that there was a better than even chance of the deal going through. Sure, some people thought that the deal would not go through - but it was by no means the universal opinion. In fact, the majority of us thought he WOULD succeed but we suspected that some of us would lose our jobs afterwards.
The gang of three are confident that they can make a successful go of it, that they are in a stable enough financial position to ride out the current slump and exploit the inevitable upturn. After all, why else would they have put their own money into the business?
The rumour was that Aeromadrid were only ever interested in asset stripping the company and it is my view that the current management are the company's best chance of surviving and expanding.
Remember, although sturdent numbers are low, the restructuring has reduced staff numbers, too, so costs are down.
I was one of those who was "restructured" out of the company, but bear them no ill will, wish them well and would be willing to consider rejoining them if things pick up.
As for Khalifa, well, who knows the real story? However, we had that business for a crucial period post September 11 and without it, who knows what would have happened?
a few facts:
In November we all knew that Peter Sadler (the GM) had put forward a bid by his consortium of 3 (including himself, Bob Anderson and Oscar Sordo), we knew that this was the prefered bid and we knew that there was a better than even chance of the deal going through. Sure, some people thought that the deal would not go through - but it was by no means the universal opinion. In fact, the majority of us thought he WOULD succeed but we suspected that some of us would lose our jobs afterwards.
The gang of three are confident that they can make a successful go of it, that they are in a stable enough financial position to ride out the current slump and exploit the inevitable upturn. After all, why else would they have put their own money into the business?
The rumour was that Aeromadrid were only ever interested in asset stripping the company and it is my view that the current management are the company's best chance of surviving and expanding.
Remember, although sturdent numbers are low, the restructuring has reduced staff numbers, too, so costs are down.
I was one of those who was "restructured" out of the company, but bear them no ill will, wish them well and would be willing to consider rejoining them if things pick up.
As for Khalifa, well, who knows the real story? However, we had that business for a crucial period post September 11 and without it, who knows what would have happened?
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I really hope that they change the way that they were doing things. I mean before they want it to have 90% sponsors ( I think that is one of reasons why BAE crash) and they didnt take much care of the self sponsor people. Self sponsor was second cateory students. I hope that they reallize that is not the right way to get thinks working.
Last edited by peb; 21st Feb 2004 at 05:02.
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Peb it seems you work for aeromadrid and you know everything from bae fte or whatever is called.Nevertheless I would like to know how is aeromadrid doing ? From what you read in some forums they are not in the brightest position.
Not paying instructors firing many of the ones making 180€ a month( Thats called fairness) , not exploiting a FFS nearly 24 hours a day ( That s called overcapacity) and many other things.
Aeromadrid had a great reputation, they became greedy and thats what happens.
Not paying instructors firing many of the ones making 180€ a month( Thats called fairness) , not exploiting a FFS nearly 24 hours a day ( That s called overcapacity) and many other things.
Aeromadrid had a great reputation, they became greedy and thats what happens.
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BAE is looking for lucrative airline contracts and that is why they got rid of Jerez and kept Adelaide.
Adelaide trains CX/QF/EK/CI and recently CAAC cadets. There is a lot of money there...
If Jerez, had similar Long terms contracts with well established carriers like the ones above, i am sure it would still be under the BAE wing.
regardless of the outcome of this new change at Jerez, there is a lot of adapting to be done.
Self sponsored cadets VS Airline sponsored cadets.
This could pop up a new can of worms ...
C
Adelaide trains CX/QF/EK/CI and recently CAAC cadets. There is a lot of money there...
If Jerez, had similar Long terms contracts with well established carriers like the ones above, i am sure it would still be under the BAE wing.
regardless of the outcome of this new change at Jerez, there is a lot of adapting to be done.
Self sponsored cadets VS Airline sponsored cadets.
This could pop up a new can of worms ...
C
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Just to muddy the waters a little more....
The comments being made about self sponsored student being pushed out seem a little unfair to say the least. I admit I left over a year ago, but I completed my course there where the majority of my class were airline sponsored. There was no preferential treatment that I saw at all. I finished slightly late due to weather, but didnt pay any extra accomodation. When it came to the IR, there was obviously going to be a problem with students being ready to fit the slots with the examiner (as he comes from the UK for a week or so) so the solution was.... to delay the airline cadets and put all the self sponsored through.
I'm not saying there were no problems, but by speaking to the management about them (which I, and other colleagues did) they were sorted, or at least a compromise met.
As for the Airline contracts... well there are few out there at all, or the ones that are are not for many students (bar the easy/ctc scheme) at the moment. This merely reflects the market. Pre 9/11 BAE had BA, Aer Lingus, Mytravel, Brittania doing JOC (who have students there now I think), Air Malta and the GAPAN student. All in all not a bad array. How things will pan out in the future I cannot say, or even how they have changed in the last year. The one thing I can say is that while I was there, it was good, in fact I would say great. I have no regrets about going there and in fact, given the chance would go again!
p.s before the obvious accusations, I have absolutely no affiliation with Jerez.
The comments being made about self sponsored student being pushed out seem a little unfair to say the least. I admit I left over a year ago, but I completed my course there where the majority of my class were airline sponsored. There was no preferential treatment that I saw at all. I finished slightly late due to weather, but didnt pay any extra accomodation. When it came to the IR, there was obviously going to be a problem with students being ready to fit the slots with the examiner (as he comes from the UK for a week or so) so the solution was.... to delay the airline cadets and put all the self sponsored through.
I'm not saying there were no problems, but by speaking to the management about them (which I, and other colleagues did) they were sorted, or at least a compromise met.
As for the Airline contracts... well there are few out there at all, or the ones that are are not for many students (bar the easy/ctc scheme) at the moment. This merely reflects the market. Pre 9/11 BAE had BA, Aer Lingus, Mytravel, Brittania doing JOC (who have students there now I think), Air Malta and the GAPAN student. All in all not a bad array. How things will pan out in the future I cannot say, or even how they have changed in the last year. The one thing I can say is that while I was there, it was good, in fact I would say great. I have no regrets about going there and in fact, given the chance would go again!
p.s before the obvious accusations, I have absolutely no affiliation with Jerez.
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I believe that Airlingus is not sending people any more from two years ago.
I see you were lucky in that there wanst any differents with the sponsor guys ( I mean by this all the airline, GAPAN ect). But I know that didnt happen in every case for sure.
I see you were lucky in that there wanst any differents with the sponsor guys ( I mean by this all the airline, GAPAN ect). But I know that didnt happen in every case for sure.
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This has certainly been interesting reading. Our friend here, "peg", is obviously related under goodness knows what tedious terms, to the Spanish FTO AeroMadrid. Having read several of her posts where she has been kind enough to give us highly detailed information about the cost and availability of courses at AeroMadrid, she now seems to know in fine detail the BAE situation. Umm...interesting.
Honestly "peg", try to be fair. I've said it before and I'll say it again. This is not a forum for FTO advertising. Try to be fair to those people who have worked and still work at BAE. And to current management.
You might not think much of the FTE management, but why don't you check out management with Mr.Crespo, at your lovely AeroMadrid. Down from 3 integrated courses a year with over 40 students per course, to 1 intergrated course with only 10 students. Half of the fleet of aircraft for sale!!! No longer the best client for our friends at CLH.
And latest news: Aeromadrid is about to start handing back some of its rented classrooms to AENA (Spanish airport authority) due to lack of business.
Hey there Peg. You might need to start looking for another job!!
I'm trying not to get personal here, but it's not easy!!
I've read some of your posts that are actual lies. It's amazing. You even had the courage to say that a certain FTO in Madrid was in a court case with its students. (I checked up on that myself). Totally untrue. And here you are, at it again. Come on, give us a break please.
And just repeating some of your words from one of your posts: "In my opinion, I don't think they're going to last long..." Umm...what about you?
Honestly "peg", try to be fair. I've said it before and I'll say it again. This is not a forum for FTO advertising. Try to be fair to those people who have worked and still work at BAE. And to current management.
You might not think much of the FTE management, but why don't you check out management with Mr.Crespo, at your lovely AeroMadrid. Down from 3 integrated courses a year with over 40 students per course, to 1 intergrated course with only 10 students. Half of the fleet of aircraft for sale!!! No longer the best client for our friends at CLH.
And latest news: Aeromadrid is about to start handing back some of its rented classrooms to AENA (Spanish airport authority) due to lack of business.
Hey there Peg. You might need to start looking for another job!!
I'm trying not to get personal here, but it's not easy!!
I've read some of your posts that are actual lies. It's amazing. You even had the courage to say that a certain FTO in Madrid was in a court case with its students. (I checked up on that myself). Totally untrue. And here you are, at it again. Come on, give us a break please.
And just repeating some of your words from one of your posts: "In my opinion, I don't think they're going to last long..." Umm...what about you?
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Sorry buy I do not work or study in AeroMadrid or Bae. I give the information that I has got about any place.
Do you know how to read? My nick name is peb. And Im male. I think you got cofused with some else.
What ever you said. I didnt hear that about AeroMadrid but can be true. I have been told that they are paying three euros less per hour to the grond instructors. But I still think that is one of the best with AmericanFlyers and AirdMed.
Do you have any personal problem with me? Because I do not have it with you and Im not going to play that game that you are trying to take me in. I do not know have a clue who you are and Im not interested either.
See ya
Do you know how to read? My nick name is peb. And Im male. I think you got cofused with some else.
What ever you said. I didnt hear that about AeroMadrid but can be true. I have been told that they are paying three euros less per hour to the grond instructors. But I still think that is one of the best with AmericanFlyers and AirdMed.
Do you have any personal problem with me? Because I do not have it with you and Im not going to play that game that you are trying to take me in. I do not know have a clue who you are and Im not interested either.
See ya
Last edited by peb; 22nd Feb 2004 at 02:27.
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No personal problem Peg. It's just that I know many people who work at almost all the FTOs in Madrid Cuatro Vientos and what I've read seems unfair.
You must be carefull when you make comments. You are entilted to say whatever you like, but it's good education not to write things that can be insulting or do damage when you are not sure whether they are true.
Of course it is very advisable to warn people about FTOs that are not up to scratch, but what you say must be true. And quite simply, that is not the case.
This is not personal and I have no intention of making it a personal issue as long as what I read is true and honest.
You must be carefull when you make comments. You are entilted to say whatever you like, but it's good education not to write things that can be insulting or do damage when you are not sure whether they are true.
Of course it is very advisable to warn people about FTOs that are not up to scratch, but what you say must be true. And quite simply, that is not the case.
This is not personal and I have no intention of making it a personal issue as long as what I read is true and honest.