CPL Skills Test - New Content?
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I understand that they have removed the IMC diversion leg. That's the bit where the examiner decides that you've suddenly gone into cloud and you have to navigate to a nominated alternate under the hood, using the aircraft's navigation equipment. It wasn't that bad and I think it has just been taken out without being replaced by anything.
In my case, for "nominated alternate" read "tiny insignificant grass strip in the middle of a great deal of other grass, all the same colour and texture in a landscape devoid of any features whatsoever"
Hufty
In my case, for "nominated alternate" read "tiny insignificant grass strip in the middle of a great deal of other grass, all the same colour and texture in a landscape devoid of any features whatsoever"
Hufty
Why do it if it's not fun?
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It wasn't that bad and I think it has just been taken out without being replaced by anything
It used to be that a UK CPL gave you automatic IMC-rating privileges.... therefore, it was appropriate to include IMC flying in the test. With JAR, these privileges were removed, but the relevant parts of the test weren't. The changes to the test are simply to bring the test into line with the privileges of the license, and seem to make perfect sense to me.
Personally, I found the IMC part the hardest part of the CPL, despite already having an IMC rating - not the actual flying, but the navigating. Good riddance, I reckon!
FFF
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As discussed - out goes the IFR navigation element.
Now:
Departure, set heading on VFR nav leg (should be approx 20 minutes duration in whatever class of aircraft you use). No radio aids.
At or before destination, told of VFR diversion leg - most examiners keeping this fairly short (the old IFR leg was around 20 mins also, but not this new VFR one). All radio aids are available other than "direct to" or "moving map" function of GPS. RNAV (KNS80, for example, CAN be tracked direct if you know how to move a VOR to your diversion point). No Loran. Short section of radio nav tracking - NDB or VOR, direct or intercept, towards or away/backtrack.
Modular CPL applicants need to get to, and positively identify (biggest cause of failure), at least one of the two points (destination or diversion). Oxford integrated guys (at least) are required, by their syllabus, to positively identify both places.
At end of diversion, instrument flying. Start with level 180 degree turn, then mixture of straight climbs, straight decsents, level turns, climbing turns, descents at nominated IAS and Rate of Descent (may include a turn at rate 1), speed changes whilst in straight and level. Position fix using radio aids.
Limited panel: Speed changes whilst straight and level, level turns, unusual attitude recovery. End of instruments!!
General handling: Stalls (three of), steep turns, recovery from spiral descent, steep gliding turns, climbs at Vx and Vy.
Circuits: Normal landing (full flap), Flapless, Glide, Low level (Bad w/x) circuit and short field landing.
Emergencies: PFL, EFATO and in flight engine fire. Others depending on examiners mood.
Elect to do test in a multi engine aircraft will also add EFATO, Single engine go around and single engine landing (but will cancel need for PFL).
All the rules in CAA Document 3. Version 6 being the latest.
Whole thing - about 2 to 2 1/2 hours.
Now:
Departure, set heading on VFR nav leg (should be approx 20 minutes duration in whatever class of aircraft you use). No radio aids.
At or before destination, told of VFR diversion leg - most examiners keeping this fairly short (the old IFR leg was around 20 mins also, but not this new VFR one). All radio aids are available other than "direct to" or "moving map" function of GPS. RNAV (KNS80, for example, CAN be tracked direct if you know how to move a VOR to your diversion point). No Loran. Short section of radio nav tracking - NDB or VOR, direct or intercept, towards or away/backtrack.
Modular CPL applicants need to get to, and positively identify (biggest cause of failure), at least one of the two points (destination or diversion). Oxford integrated guys (at least) are required, by their syllabus, to positively identify both places.
At end of diversion, instrument flying. Start with level 180 degree turn, then mixture of straight climbs, straight decsents, level turns, climbing turns, descents at nominated IAS and Rate of Descent (may include a turn at rate 1), speed changes whilst in straight and level. Position fix using radio aids.
Limited panel: Speed changes whilst straight and level, level turns, unusual attitude recovery. End of instruments!!
General handling: Stalls (three of), steep turns, recovery from spiral descent, steep gliding turns, climbs at Vx and Vy.
Circuits: Normal landing (full flap), Flapless, Glide, Low level (Bad w/x) circuit and short field landing.
Emergencies: PFL, EFATO and in flight engine fire. Others depending on examiners mood.
Elect to do test in a multi engine aircraft will also add EFATO, Single engine go around and single engine landing (but will cancel need for PFL).
All the rules in CAA Document 3. Version 6 being the latest.
Whole thing - about 2 to 2 1/2 hours.
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This site is notorious for dis-information and this thread is obviously no exception. I recommend you download the source document from the CAA website (Standards Document 3, whichever version was effective from 1 Dec 03). The change to the navigation is the removal of the requirement to conduct part of the diversion leg in simulated IMC. FFF is right when he states that this was a hangover from the old national CPL skill test. The JAR-FCL CPL (without an IR) confers no IFR privileges, so it is not right to train for and test continued navigation in IMC on a simulated public transport flight when the would be licence holder is not permitted to do so. But there is no change to the approximate length of either of the navigation legs and the applicant must still be able to identify both original destination and diversion point. (Where did the different requirements for integrated and modular students come from Keygrip? Nothing in Stds Doc 3 about it.) There is still an element of instrument flying because the JAA (and the AAIB) insist on it as a safety module. Unqualified pilots still enter IMC, lose control and/or fly into the ground on an alarmingly regular basis. So, the examiner simulates inadvertent entry into IMC and the applicant is expected to demonstrate basic instrument skills and take appropriate measures to continue the flight safely whilst attempting to regain VMC. This may include a turn through 180 degrees towards the last known area of "good weather", a climb to minimum safe altitude if this is not immediately successful, obtaining a radar service from ATC etc. Full panel and limited panel instrument flying are flown as before and a fix must be taken as some stage whilst still in simulated IMC. One final point, the abnormal/emergency section requires more than just an engine fire, PFL and EFATO. There is a requirement for some form of equipment malfunction or system failure, which is introduced at the examiner's discretion. Typically this could be an alternator failure, or radio failure, or the gear fails to lower on the normal system. In summary, read the document. Don't rely on rumour.
Last edited by Black Jake; 14th Feb 2004 at 16:23.
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Well, I stick with what I said.
Navigation leg two has been substantially reduced by many examiners as the workload required during that leg has been reduced by the reshuffle in the test profile.
The navigation has been assessed on leg one. No need to repeat it. No need to waste flight time at the candidates expense.
The profile does NOT require positive I.D. of both places - examiner MAY elect to carry out the diversion BEFORE getting to the nominated destination, so how the **** does the candidate positively identify it??
Where the difference in modular and integrated?? I didn't say there was - I said OXFORD has mandated IN THEIR SYLLABUS that the candidate identifies both places. They (Oxford) have also mandated IN THE SYLLABUS that the test should take two hours thirty minutes, whereas a modular guy (or, in theory, any other integrated candidate whose company syllabus does not dictate otherwise) need only fly as long as is required to jump through each and every hoop on the list of MANDATORY items.
The abnormal/emergency section do not REQUIRE a systems failure or whatever - it is OPTIONAL at the discretion of the examiner.....but a damned good idea.
I'll grant you, BJ, that the "IMC checks" should be carried out almost as you say - but this may involve a DESCENT to MSA, not just a climb.
I also say again - read Standards Document 3 (although it, alone, does not suggest that you may use RNAV to support your divert planning).
Navigation leg two has been substantially reduced by many examiners as the workload required during that leg has been reduced by the reshuffle in the test profile.
The navigation has been assessed on leg one. No need to repeat it. No need to waste flight time at the candidates expense.
The profile does NOT require positive I.D. of both places - examiner MAY elect to carry out the diversion BEFORE getting to the nominated destination, so how the **** does the candidate positively identify it??
Where the difference in modular and integrated?? I didn't say there was - I said OXFORD has mandated IN THEIR SYLLABUS that the candidate identifies both places. They (Oxford) have also mandated IN THE SYLLABUS that the test should take two hours thirty minutes, whereas a modular guy (or, in theory, any other integrated candidate whose company syllabus does not dictate otherwise) need only fly as long as is required to jump through each and every hoop on the list of MANDATORY items.
The abnormal/emergency section do not REQUIRE a systems failure or whatever - it is OPTIONAL at the discretion of the examiner.....but a damned good idea.
I'll grant you, BJ, that the "IMC checks" should be carried out almost as you say - but this may involve a DESCENT to MSA, not just a climb.
I also say again - read Standards Document 3 (although it, alone, does not suggest that you may use RNAV to support your divert planning).
Keygrip!! - Calm down lad! Nil illegitum carborundum. It is clear that Black Jake is talking from an orifice other than that below her nose. Quite apart from her lack of familiarity with the appropriate Standards Doc, she obviously has a flawed understanding of AAIB opinion.
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Just to add my six penn'orth.
There is still a requirement to fix your position using radio aids while IMC - it's just been moved from the nav phase into the IF airwork phase for the reasons already stated - the JAA CPL gives no IF privileges. However, the IFR fix is still part of Section 3 (En-route) so if it goes wrong it's the nav that you'll be repeating plus a bit of IMC at the end to re-do the fix.
The second leg of the navex IS worth doing - it tests the ability to plan in the air rather than just follow a preplanned, pre-studied route.
Whatever Oxford choose to teach in their syllabus, the test is done by an examiner who, for integrated courses can be an OAT instructor, but who is working on behalf of the CAA and so should be following the same guidelines as any other FE CPL - OATS can't lay down what happens on a CPL Skills Test!
The reason the IF work is still in the test is primarily because ICAO requires it for any ICAO compliant CPL.
There is still a requirement to fix your position using radio aids while IMC - it's just been moved from the nav phase into the IF airwork phase for the reasons already stated - the JAA CPL gives no IF privileges. However, the IFR fix is still part of Section 3 (En-route) so if it goes wrong it's the nav that you'll be repeating plus a bit of IMC at the end to re-do the fix.
The second leg of the navex IS worth doing - it tests the ability to plan in the air rather than just follow a preplanned, pre-studied route.
Whatever Oxford choose to teach in their syllabus, the test is done by an examiner who, for integrated courses can be an OAT instructor, but who is working on behalf of the CAA and so should be following the same guidelines as any other FE CPL - OATS can't lay down what happens on a CPL Skills Test!
The reason the IF work is still in the test is primarily because ICAO requires it for any ICAO compliant CPL.
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As one who is imminently about to start the CPL I find this rather interesting (and pleasant) news. Question though..... until now hasn't a sizable chunk of the 25 hour course been taken up with IMC navigation ? With the requirement removed I guess this leaves time to concentrate on other things. No-one has mentioned a decrease to the 25 hour requirement.
