Revised JAA Minimum Requirements
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Revised JAA Minimum Requirements
Please forgive me if I'm listing a question that has been asked a million times but I can't seem to find a straight answer anywhere.
I'm looking into self sponsorship to gain a JAA CPL. A friend of mine is an instructor and has offered me a once in a lifetime opportunity. Unfortunately I'm not a millionaire so my goal is to obtain a frozen CPL with the absolute minimum hours and requirements. I know that the JAA requirements have changed recently and I'm not sure exactly what I need to do to meet the minimum requirements. I believe that the CPL and the ATPL have now been merged and it's only the matter of experience that now separates them.
The way I'm planning on going is to do 150 hours with my friend which would include my PPL, Night & IMC Rating. Then to go out to the USA and carry out a Multi Engine Rating, Ground School and finally an Instrument Rating.
I would appreciate any help that anybody could offer me about what I am trying to achieve, in particular any information regarding the minimum JAA Requirements.
Thanks for any help in advance.
Haggis.
I'm looking into self sponsorship to gain a JAA CPL. A friend of mine is an instructor and has offered me a once in a lifetime opportunity. Unfortunately I'm not a millionaire so my goal is to obtain a frozen CPL with the absolute minimum hours and requirements. I know that the JAA requirements have changed recently and I'm not sure exactly what I need to do to meet the minimum requirements. I believe that the CPL and the ATPL have now been merged and it's only the matter of experience that now separates them.
The way I'm planning on going is to do 150 hours with my friend which would include my PPL, Night & IMC Rating. Then to go out to the USA and carry out a Multi Engine Rating, Ground School and finally an Instrument Rating.
I would appreciate any help that anybody could offer me about what I am trying to achieve, in particular any information regarding the minimum JAA Requirements.
Thanks for any help in advance.
Haggis.
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Haggis,
I don't know how it is in the UK but here in Australia our standards meet the JAA minimum requirements. For instance at the University of New South Wales in Sydney Bachelor of Aviation students complete 240hrs of flight time, their CPL, and their ATPL frozen, as well as 60hrs sim time. We also can have the option of doing a multi-engine rating and instructor rating, etc. Then the university can basically send us overseas to get our JAA licence. Hope that helps.
I don't know how it is in the UK but here in Australia our standards meet the JAA minimum requirements. For instance at the University of New South Wales in Sydney Bachelor of Aviation students complete 240hrs of flight time, their CPL, and their ATPL frozen, as well as 60hrs sim time. We also can have the option of doing a multi-engine rating and instructor rating, etc. Then the university can basically send us overseas to get our JAA licence. Hope that helps.
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sorry to take it off the subject a bit.
What flight school in america is it your planning on going to?
Theres not many yank JAA courses that ive seen and liked, only one would be a bridged program at PEA in florida while attending Naples University to do the ATPL Theory exams.
Or are you planning to do the FAA side of things then convert?
Further back to your question, i found on www.tripleaflying.co.uk that the CPL minimal requirements "Have completed 150 hours flight time as a pilot "
What flight school in america is it your planning on going to?
Theres not many yank JAA courses that ive seen and liked, only one would be a bridged program at PEA in florida while attending Naples University to do the ATPL Theory exams.
Or are you planning to do the FAA side of things then convert?
Further back to your question, i found on www.tripleaflying.co.uk that the CPL minimal requirements "Have completed 150 hours flight time as a pilot "
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Thanks for your help guys!
I eventually managed to get one of the training schools from America to call me back. I’ve been looking at a few in particular, one was call UK FT (UK Flight Training) and the other one was called Ormand Beach Aviation. They both seem to be reasonably priced and when UK FT called me back they cleared a few things up. They mentioned that the minimum requirements were 150 hours and a night rating, then you can go on to do the CPL/ATPL ground school but that it HAS to be done in the UK. You can also do it on a self study program from home as an online course over a year as opposed to doing it as a full time 5 month course. After you’ve completed ground school you then have to complete a CPL practical course which now includes the multi-engine rating.
Finally, you need to do the Instrument Rating which can be done over in America but in order for it to be upto JAA standards, it needs to be converted when you get back. I’ve asked them to email me some more info as what he told me on the phone was a bit baffling.
I eventually managed to get one of the training schools from America to call me back. I’ve been looking at a few in particular, one was call UK FT (UK Flight Training) and the other one was called Ormand Beach Aviation. They both seem to be reasonably priced and when UK FT called me back they cleared a few things up. They mentioned that the minimum requirements were 150 hours and a night rating, then you can go on to do the CPL/ATPL ground school but that it HAS to be done in the UK. You can also do it on a self study program from home as an online course over a year as opposed to doing it as a full time 5 month course. After you’ve completed ground school you then have to complete a CPL practical course which now includes the multi-engine rating.
Finally, you need to do the Instrument Rating which can be done over in America but in order for it to be upto JAA standards, it needs to be converted when you get back. I’ve asked them to email me some more info as what he told me on the phone was a bit baffling.
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the ATPL exams dont need to be done in the uk?
Naples Air Centre in florida do the JAA frozen ATPL theory exams.
So does BAE Systems in Jerez, Spain.
Regarding license conversion from FAA to JAA, id look into this more, this too is very costly....I worked out a cost if i where to do it at OATS it came to around £16,000 just to convert my license and about 1 year to do (atpl exams taking most time)
Your flight schools, if your looking at America, ive looked at alot of flight schools, 2 i would recommend PEA (Pheonix East Aviation www.pea.com ) and Epic Aviation ( www.epicaviation.com )
PEA currently do a bridged program that will get you lots and lots of hours.
Epic aviation tho, they probably have the best fleet of planes in the florida area, all there Cessnas are equiped with the latest systems (moving map gps, 2 axis auto pilot, nexrad weather uplink etc)
Naples Air Centre in florida do the JAA frozen ATPL theory exams.
So does BAE Systems in Jerez, Spain.
Regarding license conversion from FAA to JAA, id look into this more, this too is very costly....I worked out a cost if i where to do it at OATS it came to around £16,000 just to convert my license and about 1 year to do (atpl exams taking most time)
Your flight schools, if your looking at America, ive looked at alot of flight schools, 2 i would recommend PEA (Pheonix East Aviation www.pea.com ) and Epic Aviation ( www.epicaviation.com )
PEA currently do a bridged program that will get you lots and lots of hours.
Epic aviation tho, they probably have the best fleet of planes in the florida area, all there Cessnas are equiped with the latest systems (moving map gps, 2 axis auto pilot, nexrad weather uplink etc)
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To be honest with your Bryce, I’m not really too interested in learning all about the GPS system, FMC and weather uplink etc. My aim is to get to a frozen CPL at the minimum cost and to apply for a job doing absolutely anything just to build up my hours. I’ve been told that its better to learn and understand the basics, ie. map, stopwatch and compass etc and I’m prepared to settle for that at this stage.
I’ve taken a brief look at the pea website you mentioned but it didn’t seem to mention anything about JAA qualifications. I’m at work at the moment so I’ll look in greater detail when I get home tonight. To be absolutely honest with you there’s that many different courses out there, I’m not really too sure what I’m looking for!
My overall goal is to try and obtain my frozen CPL and my biggest concern is that I may get half way through the training and run out of cash with the bank not willing to offer me any more funding.
Baring all of this in mind and putting yourself in my place, How do you think you would go about it if you were low on cash, what courses would you take on and where do you think that you would do them? Also baring in mind that I don’t want my great grand kids to be still paying for my training when I’m done and dusted
Thanks again for your help Bryce.
I’ve taken a brief look at the pea website you mentioned but it didn’t seem to mention anything about JAA qualifications. I’m at work at the moment so I’ll look in greater detail when I get home tonight. To be absolutely honest with you there’s that many different courses out there, I’m not really too sure what I’m looking for!
My overall goal is to try and obtain my frozen CPL and my biggest concern is that I may get half way through the training and run out of cash with the bank not willing to offer me any more funding.
Baring all of this in mind and putting yourself in my place, How do you think you would go about it if you were low on cash, what courses would you take on and where do you think that you would do them? Also baring in mind that I don’t want my great grand kids to be still paying for my training when I’m done and dusted
Thanks again for your help Bryce.
To be honest, if you're low on cash I would forget it for now. You will, I repeat, will spend more money than you envisaged. Take your first estimate and add 30-50%. If you're tight on money you will find the training more stressful which will inevitably spoil your enjoyment of the training and, more importantly, distract you from your primary aim of gaining your licence. You can do some of the training for the IR in the US but the test itself needs to be taken in the UK. Furthermore, US approaches, airspace and terminology are quite different from the UK so there is inevitably a degree of retraining. Believe me, I know, I have both FAA and JAA IRs.
Why do it if it's not fun?
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Haggis,
Reading through your posts, I can't helping thinking that you are a little confused, and not quite sure what the various licenses and ratings are all about, or which ones you want/need. Without knowing this, it's impossible for you to make a decision about the best way of obtaining those licenses/ratings.
I'm going to try to pick out as many of the inconsistencies in your posts as I can, and correct you as best I can, then I'll have a go out figuring out exactly what you're actually trying to do.
In your first post, you said: "my goal is to obtain a frozen CPL". There is no such thing as a frozen CPL! Do you mean a frozen ATPL? To clarify the terminology a little: there is, officially, no such thing as a frozen ATPL either, but it is a term which is commonly used to mean a CPL/IR, with passes in the ATPL exams, and sometimes (but not always) an MCC.
"I believe that the CPL and the ATPL have now been merged and it's only the matter of experience that now separates them". This is a bit of an oversimplification. Before you can do the CPL, you must pass either the CPL written exams, or the ATPL written exams. The most common course of action is to do the ATPL written exams. If you do this, you can then get a CPL and an IR. It is then only a matter of experience before you can qualify for an ATPL. (Over-simplification here, but close enough for now.) However, if you were to do the CPL exams instead of the ATPL exams, then you can't upgrade your CPL to an ATPL without doing more exams first. So what you are saying is not quite right.
Next, your plan includes PPL, Night, IMC, Multi, ground-school and IR. But it doesn't include a CPL. This seems to be a bit of an oversight on your part? (Also, as Ham says, you can't actually do the IR test in America - but there is nothing to stop you doing most of the training for it there, and returning to the UK for the final few hours, and for the test.)
Now, putting all of this together, I would guess that what you want is a frozen ATPL? (Can't really tell, since you don't say what this "once in a lifetime opportunity" is.) In that case, your plan all sounds pretty good, except for the lack of CPL. You might also benefit from the MCC, but this is not vital, and it will depend on what opportunity you've been offered.
I hope that has clarified things for you.
FFF
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Reading through your posts, I can't helping thinking that you are a little confused, and not quite sure what the various licenses and ratings are all about, or which ones you want/need. Without knowing this, it's impossible for you to make a decision about the best way of obtaining those licenses/ratings.
I'm going to try to pick out as many of the inconsistencies in your posts as I can, and correct you as best I can, then I'll have a go out figuring out exactly what you're actually trying to do.
In your first post, you said: "my goal is to obtain a frozen CPL". There is no such thing as a frozen CPL! Do you mean a frozen ATPL? To clarify the terminology a little: there is, officially, no such thing as a frozen ATPL either, but it is a term which is commonly used to mean a CPL/IR, with passes in the ATPL exams, and sometimes (but not always) an MCC.
"I believe that the CPL and the ATPL have now been merged and it's only the matter of experience that now separates them". This is a bit of an oversimplification. Before you can do the CPL, you must pass either the CPL written exams, or the ATPL written exams. The most common course of action is to do the ATPL written exams. If you do this, you can then get a CPL and an IR. It is then only a matter of experience before you can qualify for an ATPL. (Over-simplification here, but close enough for now.) However, if you were to do the CPL exams instead of the ATPL exams, then you can't upgrade your CPL to an ATPL without doing more exams first. So what you are saying is not quite right.
Next, your plan includes PPL, Night, IMC, Multi, ground-school and IR. But it doesn't include a CPL. This seems to be a bit of an oversight on your part? (Also, as Ham says, you can't actually do the IR test in America - but there is nothing to stop you doing most of the training for it there, and returning to the UK for the final few hours, and for the test.)
Now, putting all of this together, I would guess that what you want is a frozen ATPL? (Can't really tell, since you don't say what this "once in a lifetime opportunity" is.) In that case, your plan all sounds pretty good, except for the lack of CPL. You might also benefit from the MCC, but this is not vital, and it will depend on what opportunity you've been offered.
I hope that has clarified things for you.
FFF
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