Where/who do you recommend for Hour Building?
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Where/who do you recommend for Hour Building?
Hi all
I’ve been thinking that it may be sensible to get all my hour building out of the way before I start my ATPL groundschool, so then I’ve got less to worry about financially during the 3yr period of the ATPL qualification remaining valid, in which you have to complete a CPL and an IR.
I’m thinking of doing about 90hr building – bringing my total hours to approx 140hrs, and I’ll do the other 10hrs at flying school, where it’s advised to do some flying along side groundschool.
Do any of you know of any good places you’d recommend to others, where one should do his/her hour building e.g. USA, Canada?
Accommodation also has to be taken into account in the total costs, and I’m wondering are there any flying schools that offer accommodation and flying within a fixed price?
Cheers…
I’ve been thinking that it may be sensible to get all my hour building out of the way before I start my ATPL groundschool, so then I’ve got less to worry about financially during the 3yr period of the ATPL qualification remaining valid, in which you have to complete a CPL and an IR.
I’m thinking of doing about 90hr building – bringing my total hours to approx 140hrs, and I’ll do the other 10hrs at flying school, where it’s advised to do some flying along side groundschool.
Do any of you know of any good places you’d recommend to others, where one should do his/her hour building e.g. USA, Canada?
Accommodation also has to be taken into account in the total costs, and I’m wondering are there any flying schools that offer accommodation and flying within a fixed price?
Cheers…
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Spike001 mate!
Go to the states, I did my hour building in Las Vegas, and had the time of my life. I stayed for 2 months and did 100 hour's flying and I can honestly say I never needed to fly a route more than once, ( except of course to get out of the Las Vegas air space which are precribed routes).
You have The Hoover Damn, great from the air and on the ground, you have Area 51 to the North, but stay well clear of the place, you have Death Valley to play Top Gun, Bryce Canyon an airfield 9000 feet above sea level, Los Angeles, San Diego, San Fran but these you need at least an Arrow or Mooney due to the distance, and of not forgetting the Grand Canyon, ( hint turn your transponder off if you want to fly through it, or else you are up at 10,000 to comply with the rules
)
I stayed just opposite the airport (North Las Vegas) in self catering accomadation, called Budget Suites, clean and tidy nothing special and you get to meet loads of interesting people! I paid in total about 8,000gbp, for flights, accomadation $600per month, and of course the flying, I was using a combination of a PA28Rt and the Mooney which made it a little more expensive than it needed to be.
Go and have fun!!
Go to the states, I did my hour building in Las Vegas, and had the time of my life. I stayed for 2 months and did 100 hour's flying and I can honestly say I never needed to fly a route more than once, ( except of course to get out of the Las Vegas air space which are precribed routes).
You have The Hoover Damn, great from the air and on the ground, you have Area 51 to the North, but stay well clear of the place, you have Death Valley to play Top Gun, Bryce Canyon an airfield 9000 feet above sea level, Los Angeles, San Diego, San Fran but these you need at least an Arrow or Mooney due to the distance, and of not forgetting the Grand Canyon, ( hint turn your transponder off if you want to fly through it, or else you are up at 10,000 to comply with the rules
) I stayed just opposite the airport (North Las Vegas) in self catering accomadation, called Budget Suites, clean and tidy nothing special and you get to meet loads of interesting people! I paid in total about 8,000gbp, for flights, accomadation $600per month, and of course the flying, I was using a combination of a PA28Rt and the Mooney which made it a little more expensive than it needed to be.
Go and have fun!!
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You may be best doing all of your groundschool first with a bit of flying on the side, some people do struggle to pass there ATPL's & therefore the hour buliding would be fun but not really needed.
YYZ
YYZ
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I've banged on about them before, but try Mazzei, in Fresno California. They have cheap (and good) PA38s and can offer you cheap accommodation in apartments near the airport (although I didn't stay there).
The airport is in the San Joaquin valley, but it tends to suffer from low stratus I'm told in the winter, so take some additional advice before going out there (or anywhere) as the year drags on. I understand Florida is a better prospect for WX in the winter....
Good luck and have fun!
The airport is in the San Joaquin valley, but it tends to suffer from low stratus I'm told in the winter, so take some additional advice before going out there (or anywhere) as the year drags on. I understand Florida is a better prospect for WX in the winter....
Good luck and have fun!
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Hour building
yes the states are not bad, however get your visa first and accept all the limitations due to restrictions flying VFR.
SA is not bad, but is the quality at the "rendez-vous" and what about security in town?
South East Asia is opening new skies at south East asian prices: is it a new opportunity? That is the question.
The main school in the area is going JAR...
SA is not bad, but is the quality at the "rendez-vous" and what about security in town?
South East Asia is opening new skies at south East asian prices: is it a new opportunity? That is the question.
The main school in the area is going JAR...
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Malaysian
I wish you would spit out whatever it is you keep attempting to hint at (or sell). I looked at the far east forum after your last post and saw absolutely nothing to make me go there, in fact someone quoted $100,000 for an FAA licence. Pray do tell us what you have to say and stop spitting out cryptic clues.
Spike here's my 2 bobs worth.
YYZ makes a good point. I did some hour building in SA after my PPL then came back and am currently half way through GS. If you do it all bar 10 hours you really won't fly for 6-8 months. My advice is do some now but then keep some to do here. It may cost more but I believe it'll be worth every penny when it comes to the CPL/IR with regard to flying in weather and UK airspace. You'll have to pay anyway and 3 years is a long time to get the CPL/IR, I'm hoping 4-5 months. Look at syndicates etc. I joined one where we're getting a cherokee for £52 an hour.
All the best
SK
I wish you would spit out whatever it is you keep attempting to hint at (or sell). I looked at the far east forum after your last post and saw absolutely nothing to make me go there, in fact someone quoted $100,000 for an FAA licence. Pray do tell us what you have to say and stop spitting out cryptic clues.
Spike here's my 2 bobs worth.
YYZ makes a good point. I did some hour building in SA after my PPL then came back and am currently half way through GS. If you do it all bar 10 hours you really won't fly for 6-8 months. My advice is do some now but then keep some to do here. It may cost more but I believe it'll be worth every penny when it comes to the CPL/IR with regard to flying in weather and UK airspace. You'll have to pay anyway and 3 years is a long time to get the CPL/IR, I'm hoping 4-5 months. Look at syndicates etc. I joined one where we're getting a cherokee for £52 an hour.
All the best
SK
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Canada is the place to go
Canada is the place to go.
Better prices, standards, no visa or security hassels.
Adam
www.harvsair.com
Better prices, standards, no visa or security hassels.
Adam
www.harvsair.com
Why do it if it's not fun?
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Lots of points to answer for what seems a very simple question. I'll try to get through everything!
First of all - hour building before the exams. Your logic is good, but not perfect. Someone else has already mentioned that a bit of flying on the side might help relieve the pressures of the studying, which is true enough. More importantly, though, you don't want to go into your CPL training having not flown for 6 months or longer - you'll end up spending a few hours getting up to speed. I'd suggest doing half, maybe three quarters, of your hour-building first, and leaving a few hours until after (or during) the exams, so that when you turn up at your CPL school you are current.
Next question - where to go. USA is good. As Strafer says, you don't actually need a Visa to hour-build there. Strafer knows that, I know that, and now you know that too - but none of us matter. The only person who matters is the immigration oficer who happens to be working the day you turn up. So, although it's not required, it doesn't harm to get a Visa anyway if the USA is where you're going, because the immigration oficer most like isn't a pilot, and doesn't understand the different between training and hour-building. Most likely you'll be ok, there's a small chance you won't be.
As to where in the USA, I flew out of Chandler Airport in Phoenix, Arizona for two months, renting from Chandler Air Service - I'd definitely recommend them, and I'd definitely recommend the area.
However, with hindsight, I would not have done my hour-building in the US. I'm planning on going to the US for my CPL (I say planning, it's already booked so I guess that's more than just planning). With one exception, every CPL school outside of Europe is in the US - there's a reasonable chance that you'll go there at some point during your training anyway. So I'd suggest going to somewhere more unusual for your hour-building, just for the variety. Canada is beautiful, although I've never flown there. I've heard good things about South Africa, too, but never even been there. If I had to do it again, I'd have chosen one of those places to go for hour-building, and saved the US until I did my CPL.
Hope that helps. But wherever you go, remember that hour-building is there to be enjoyed - make sure you learn and improve, but have fun while you're at it!
FFF
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First of all - hour building before the exams. Your logic is good, but not perfect. Someone else has already mentioned that a bit of flying on the side might help relieve the pressures of the studying, which is true enough. More importantly, though, you don't want to go into your CPL training having not flown for 6 months or longer - you'll end up spending a few hours getting up to speed. I'd suggest doing half, maybe three quarters, of your hour-building first, and leaving a few hours until after (or during) the exams, so that when you turn up at your CPL school you are current.
Next question - where to go. USA is good. As Strafer says, you don't actually need a Visa to hour-build there. Strafer knows that, I know that, and now you know that too - but none of us matter. The only person who matters is the immigration oficer who happens to be working the day you turn up. So, although it's not required, it doesn't harm to get a Visa anyway if the USA is where you're going, because the immigration oficer most like isn't a pilot, and doesn't understand the different between training and hour-building. Most likely you'll be ok, there's a small chance you won't be.
As to where in the USA, I flew out of Chandler Airport in Phoenix, Arizona for two months, renting from Chandler Air Service - I'd definitely recommend them, and I'd definitely recommend the area.
However, with hindsight, I would not have done my hour-building in the US. I'm planning on going to the US for my CPL (I say planning, it's already booked so I guess that's more than just planning). With one exception, every CPL school outside of Europe is in the US - there's a reasonable chance that you'll go there at some point during your training anyway. So I'd suggest going to somewhere more unusual for your hour-building, just for the variety. Canada is beautiful, although I've never flown there. I've heard good things about South Africa, too, but never even been there. If I had to do it again, I'd have chosen one of those places to go for hour-building, and saved the US until I did my CPL.
Hope that helps. But wherever you go, remember that hour-building is there to be enjoyed - make sure you learn and improve, but have fun while you're at it!
FFF
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Hour building
There seems to be lots of differetn opinions here so I thought I would add mine.
To sit your exams you need min 100 hrs so that means you are going to have to do at least 50 hrs from where you are now. If you are doing 50 then you might as well take advantage of the fact you are in a country ( US/Canada/SA) where flying is cheap and press on and do some more (70-80 hrs).
I haven't been to SA yet (I leave in 2 wks for a 3 wk hour building trip) but I think you would get more out of going to the US. The US has loads of places to hire from and a PA28 shouldn't cost more than $60/hr if you are doing 50 hrs+. Last year i went to Air Desert Pacific with a friend and we hired a PA28 and did about 80 hrs in 2 wks. We flew all over California/Nevada and Arizona, saw lots of interesting places and it was cheap $54/hr. Accomodation cost us $20/day/person and then just food. ADP meet you at LAX and then each day give you a lift into the school.
You can find similar sort of prices in Florida, the most important would be to look for somewhere that offers a package. Somewhere they have accommodation, airport collection etc. I have been to the US 4 times now hence I am now trying SA, just a change of scenary.
When were you planning on going?
To sit your exams you need min 100 hrs so that means you are going to have to do at least 50 hrs from where you are now. If you are doing 50 then you might as well take advantage of the fact you are in a country ( US/Canada/SA) where flying is cheap and press on and do some more (70-80 hrs).
I haven't been to SA yet (I leave in 2 wks for a 3 wk hour building trip) but I think you would get more out of going to the US. The US has loads of places to hire from and a PA28 shouldn't cost more than $60/hr if you are doing 50 hrs+. Last year i went to Air Desert Pacific with a friend and we hired a PA28 and did about 80 hrs in 2 wks. We flew all over California/Nevada and Arizona, saw lots of interesting places and it was cheap $54/hr. Accomodation cost us $20/day/person and then just food. ADP meet you at LAX and then each day give you a lift into the school.
You can find similar sort of prices in Florida, the most important would be to look for somewhere that offers a package. Somewhere they have accommodation, airport collection etc. I have been to the US 4 times now hence I am now trying SA, just a change of scenary.
When were you planning on going?
Last edited by Keygrip; 5th Sep 2003 at 13:49.
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South East Asia Training
I cannot make a direct advertising but the main training school existing in the South East Asia is discussing with several possible UK partners in order to present a JAR scheme similar to the UK-USA one.
The costing is not yet done because it depends on the choice of the UK partner. but the scheme will be quite less expansive than the current ones.
The costing is not yet done because it depends on the choice of the UK partner. but the scheme will be quite less expansive than the current ones.
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To sit your exams you need min 100 hrs
Why do it if it's not fun?
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To sit your exams you need min 100 hrs
Not sure where this myth comes from. Is it an old CAA thing? I know there was quite a lot of hangover from the CAA course in the previous version of Clive Hughes' book.
FFF
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Not sure where this myth comes from. Is it an old CAA thing? I know there was quite a lot of hangover from the CAA course in the previous version of Clive Hughes' book.
But according to all the official literature, only a (ICAO) PPL is specified as the requirement.No. 2
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Spike
Remember when you're hour building that you do not need to stay in one place all the time. I know of people who stayed in one place and did a series of similar runs each day, mostly out into the desert. Sure they got their hours up, but is that experience?
Why not rent the plane and take it away for a month? I did most of the western US in 3 weeks with loads of sightseeing (70 hours flying). Got experience of deserts, mountains, high density altitude, squall line thunderstorm country, cold and wet, VFR on top, snow, canyons, a complete mix of airspace. Others I know did a trip round the whole USA in a bit longer.
I doesn't necessarily cost any more because you can camp a lot of the places (though personally, I prefer hotels with hot tubs
). And if you are in the US, you will easily get courtesy cars or cheap hire cars or just rides from people hanging around the airport.
So I would look for a place that will give you the plane to take away - then it doesn't really matter where you start from.
Remember when you're hour building that you do not need to stay in one place all the time. I know of people who stayed in one place and did a series of similar runs each day, mostly out into the desert. Sure they got their hours up, but is that experience?
Why not rent the plane and take it away for a month? I did most of the western US in 3 weeks with loads of sightseeing (70 hours flying). Got experience of deserts, mountains, high density altitude, squall line thunderstorm country, cold and wet, VFR on top, snow, canyons, a complete mix of airspace. Others I know did a trip round the whole USA in a bit longer.
I doesn't necessarily cost any more because you can camp a lot of the places (though personally, I prefer hotels with hot tubs
). And if you are in the US, you will easily get courtesy cars or cheap hire cars or just rides from people hanging around the airport.So I would look for a place that will give you the plane to take away - then it doesn't really matter where you start from.
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Provided you have a little extra spare cash, I'd always recommend buying a share in an aircraft and flying in the UK.
I'm flying a PA28 - my wet hourly rate is less than hiring an a/c in the US or Canada, and will have spent about the same amount of cash on hour building as someone going abroad. This is because I'm not spending money on airline flights, accommodation and all of those extras that are suddenly needed when you pack your suitcase.
I do however, contribute a montly payment of £50 to the group, meaning at least 4 flights per month must be flown to keep it cost effective.
What about when I'm done with my hourbuilding? Sell my share - a/c shares keep their price, I'd have lost nothing.
In return you gain the ability to keep working. Flying can be arranged with great flexibility in a small group, and ATPL swatting can be done during the evening.
Job done!
I'm flying a PA28 - my wet hourly rate is less than hiring an a/c in the US or Canada, and will have spent about the same amount of cash on hour building as someone going abroad. This is because I'm not spending money on airline flights, accommodation and all of those extras that are suddenly needed when you pack your suitcase.
I do however, contribute a montly payment of £50 to the group, meaning at least 4 flights per month must be flown to keep it cost effective.
What about when I'm done with my hourbuilding? Sell my share - a/c shares keep their price, I'd have lost nothing.
In return you gain the ability to keep working. Flying can be arranged with great flexibility in a small group, and ATPL swatting can be done during the evening.
Job done!