Indifferent partner
 

A query to all you married/partnered pilots out there.

I am happily married for 10 yrs to a wife that has always embraced my hobbies/interests. I don't mean that she actively involved herself, (neither of us would want that) but she has always been interested whenever I discussed my activities. That is until I started my PPL training a couple of months back. She has always been aware of my passion for flying and knew that some day I was going to "follow the dream" as they say. But, she just doesn't want to know. It's not the money, we've been through that. Tonight I was telling her about my lesson and how breathtaking the sight of the runway lights were on approach to landing ( my first time ever seeing them) but she was simply not interested.

This is a bit disappointing and I won't get hung up over it. I just wonder if she is listening to friends etc. who repeatedly speak of how "mad I am getting into one of those things, only one engine, too small blah,blah,blah."

Is she simply convinced that I've chosen a dangerous hobby?

Any insight would be a big help.

You could always do the unthinkable and ask her ...


Seriously though, I am not the most experienced aviator by any means but I have already accepted that the joys of flying are simply not understood by most people, especially after you tell them how much you just spent for the privilige of sitting in that cramped, cold and often damp space for an hour! If it's any consolation, most of us on here know exactly what you mean!

You fly in a small, single engined aircraft? My God....... :ooh:

Pre-Divorced !
 

Years ago, when I started gliding, members of the club were making polite conversation and asking about my domestic situation. "I'm recently separated" I told them. "oh, pre-divorced" came the reply. Since then I have come to understand that it is men, not ladies who find cars and aviation sexy. Even my girlfriend, who follows F1 and gets the off-side rule was less than impressed with our first flight. Far from the scene out of the film 'The Aviator' which I had imagined, our first flight ended with an abort 2/3 of the way up the runway and when we finally did get aloft, she filled an entire sick bag. (not sure if was my flying, the turbulance or just being over Northampton)

While your lady is not actively discouraging you, take this as a ringing endorsement, and save your runway light moments for this forum. Yes they are just beautiful

When I was going through my PPL my ex-wife didn't want to know what I was doing and certainly did not sympathise with my flying achievements - NFT,GFT etc

My view is that she found flying is expensive, so I was spending money that she felt I should be spending on us (ie her priorities)

Secondly flying is a selfish activity. Although she may support you in other activities, women find flying a really difficult rival - they might be able to deal with an affair, but they don't know how to deal with an obsession like flying.

The indifference is a warning sign for you. You do need to talk it out now, otherwise you will find she will treat your flying as a cause for divorce - not incompatibilty but adultery!!

I've been divorced for 10 years as a result of misunderstanding women's attitudes. I recommend getting it sorted asap.

Infifferent anyone!
 

Mur007 has it spot on. I always thought flying was the stuff of romantic heroism; the epitome of man's timeless struggle against the last unconquered element. So when I started my PPL I sallied forth to the pub ready to hold discourse with admiring friends on my joining the brotherhood of bold aviators. To my shock and surprise, attention wandered, eyes glazed, gazes became less admiring, if not actually averted and, to put it bluntly, they were bored.

But I don't think it need be a case of divorce. ;)

A small group of people are totally enthralled by aviation, and the idea of leaving earth.

My experience has been that a vast majority have feelings about the hole thing, which range from ambivilence, to down right hostility. You can't change that. Perhaps your wife will grow you appreciate aviation, but beware that pressing it, could make it worse. If negative experiences are expected, that will be the percetion, and it's really easy to perceive aviation negatively, if that's what you are expecting.

Hopefully you can plan a trip which is so certain of success, that it will serve to demonstrate the fun, without the fear. Do not demonstrate steep turns to her!

Try for an aviation based social event to go to together. Particularly, if she can meet other wives, ideally happy flying wives. Ideal would be to team up with another pilot, who is extremely confident with his four place aircraft, take your wife on a two couple's trip. The other more experienced wife might help her to see the fun in the whole endevour. Take care though that nothing goes wrong. The negative can be worse that the postive very easily....

Prepare yourself that flying just may never be something she embraces. Let her know that she is entitled to her opinion, if you're entitled to yours, that may be the best you can hope for!

A right sweeping statement, that one :rolleyes:

Maybe just give it time? Or see if she can come up with you on one of you lessons? Must be perfect flying conditions tho' - no bumps or lumps. Or maybe give her a trial lesson as a present?

Interested wife.
 

Most wives are interested in their partner's activities, they just don't always approve of them. Seems you have to find time to ask specifically what troubles your wife regarding you flying. You and she are the only ones who can sort it out. Good luck!!!

Maybe your enthusiasm has simply reached the point of being boring for a non-aviator.

Wives and flying
 

Once you get her to accept your new hobby as a new way of getting places for an enjoyable day out or weekend away you may fins, as I did, the next complaint is how boring it can be to be a passenger! I have recently solved that one by buying her an iPad with the navpro app so she can follow where we are on the moving map display and when that gets boring she can read an electronic book on the thing. It might also solve this year's Christmas present dilemma.

"How do you know there's a pilot in the room?"
"He'll tell you!"

I think this is called AIDS - Aviation Induced Divorce Syndrome

But seriously... I think men are bad at multitasking and very good at focusing on one thing for a long time. To the point where a hobby may become an obsession. I have not only seen this in flying, but also in computers (when computers were considered a "hobby") and photography (particularly now that digital is of high-quality and dirt cheap).

Maybe it's not the flying itself that she doesn't understand, maybe it's the obsession with it.

As a woman and a pilot, I think I'm better qualified to answer this than any of you so far....

As someone said earlier, why don't you ask her? Women LIKE to talk about their feelings, strange as it may seem to some of you. :) She is probably very articulate and will welcome the chance to tell you if she's simply indifferent to seeing boring old runway lights, actually resents the expense despite earlier discussion, thinks it's OK but wishes you wouldn't go on about it quite so much, or even...would quite like to have a go herself, but is desperately suppressing that as you can't possibly afford two pilots in the family (that does happen, trust me on this).

IMHO, speculation is a bit of a waste of time. You've been together ten years; can't you talk to each other?

Thank you all for your replies. I am certain this is not a divorce issue so I can relax on that score. I think many of you are correct when you point out that aviation, like other pastimes, does not inspire most people. In fact almost everyone I have mentioned it to are bored within seconds. Thankfully I have a mate that also holds a PPL so we can bore each other.

I particularly like the quote;

"How do you know there's a pilot in the room?"
"He'll tell you!"

...........very true.

I will, however, have a go at confronting the issue with my other half over the weekend. I'll report back.

I reckon you should speak to her about it.

Pick a good moment, not when she is harrassed with something else.

Emphasise the possibility of trips abroad (whether you can do that from where you are in Ireland I don't know).

I think the biggest hurdle is the reliability issue.
Many people are not at all interested in aviation, but they might be interested in going somewhere reasonably far away in a short time, (France for lunch etc.) but after the third time of the flight being cancelled due to weather or tech failure they become much less enthusiastic.
My other half hasn't even set eyes on my a/c!

The answer is pretty obvious really! Prior to you actually taking up flying this was all a dream and as far as she was concerned would remain so.
Hence she could be supportive and interested over something which was never going to happen.

Now you are actually doing it she is petrified of recieving THE call.

"I am afraid madam your beloved Jimmy has crashed over the channell pretending to be a world war pilot and doing dog fights. The poor sod never stood a chance recovering from that dive in the 150".

"Why did I encourage him? Why did I take such an interest? Its all my fault now my beloved Jimmy has gone and I am all alone to rear the 10 kids" !!!

Remember too the picture you have of yourself in Ray Bans and a leather jacket at the flying club looking up at the clouds in a knowing way isnt the picture she has of you!

She remembers what a complete Wonker you really are. You are the guy who cannot even follow her shopping list never mind a check list.

The guy who cannot do the simplest of tasks without messing up?

You are the Wonker who last time you went shopping on your own and took the baby you brought the shopping back and left the baby in the store.
She had to take all the frantic calls from local radio, the police and the supermarket.

She also knows how you always get her to paint the ceilings as you claim you are scared of heights and climbing ladders?

Should you ever achieve that licence by bribing various people with vast sums of money and threats she also realises that one day she may have to risk her own life by going with you.

You have some options you either try and persuade her that its all really safe or saturate her to confront her fears.

Leave gruesome accident reports dotted around the house? Buy movies like death at 30,000 feet etc. She will then realise that its all inevitable.
Lastly as you go out of the door mumble " a man has to do what a man has to do and add I may not return for some time.

Pace:E

With a less than aviation mad woman (which is 99% of them) you have to pick your day for a trip carefully. My wonderful girlfriend of 7.4 years is very happy to fly with me, and we have been to lots of places, as far as Crete or S. Spain, but I have to pick the wx carefully. Personally I don't do heavy IMC enroute anyway (icing conditions are never predictable, who wants to be in a tumble dryer, etc) but with her I have to be more careful still.

Loads of male pilots have given up flying permanently due to pressure from their women, and it always seems so pointless, because a relationship should be one of mutual support for each other's "projects".

Short trips (1-day or overnight) offer the best value because you can visit some nice city, and high pressure weather is often present for a few days at a time which is just right.

At the other end of the scale, if going away for say 2 weeks, it is no use trying to predict the return weather so you just go, keeing the dates a bit flexible and sometimes she will take a commercial flight back. It's no big deal, and on the few occassions we did that, I nearly always had a perfect flight back. Only once I had to divert due to wx (to Lydd, ILS, overnight in a hotel).

When we do a long trip, we set aside 2-3 days for getting out of the UK, and about 75% of the time we manage to get away on the first day (one always flies on the first technically suitable day, even if the following day "looks perfect"). On another 20% of the time we get away on day 2 or day 3. Only once did we have to cancel the flying holiday and take an airline somewhere, but we did a flying holiday later in the year anyway.

Avoid stops in places where you are not stopping for a reason i.e. pick any fuel stops to be overnight stay places anyway, so if you have to stay an extra night it doesn't matter.

With an IR it is easier but not as much easier as most PPLs would think - the weather doesn't care for what papers you've got. What an IR does, at least 90% of the time, is allow you to access airspace which the bl00dy ATC units in question should have let you into under VFR if only they complied with ICAO airspace classification and were not so ana11y retarded. On most long IFR trips (and I always fly IFR when going abroad, nowadays) I log very little actual instrument time; often 15 mins in 15hrs of flying.

It's always worth ensuring that you are talking in plain English about your flying.

When I first started, my flying lesson stories quickly became filled with aviation acronyms and jargon. The one that stumped my boyfriend quite early was referring to aircraft by the last two letters of the regn.

"who the F***'s Mike Whiskey? Is he a new instructor?" :E

That said, being supportive of your other (potentially equally "boring") hobbies, but not this one does suggest something is bothering her. Why not have a chat?

My other half's top three concerns are along the lines of (1) she's gonna kill herself (2) it's incredibly expensive and (3) has her PPL led to anything remotely useful yet? Nope. :sad:

I must be very lucky in having had girlfriends who have absolutely loved flying, and pester me to plan the next flying holiday :ok: My present girlfriend has a good 150+ hours right seat time, and makes a good copilot :)

AOB9
 

Pace probably has it spot on.
Your wife is terrified that something will happen to you,when I was car racing my wife never said much,but when I stopped she said how worried she used to be.
When ever I go flying she asks me to be careful,so I always tell her that apart from her,I'm the most important person and I don't want to peg out just yet.
Let her know you won't take risks,show off,chance the weather etc.
You do need to sort it out because she is not too happy at the moment.
Good luck to you both.
Lister:)

Surely this management of expectations is there in pretty much any activity in a relationship.

I have two passions in my life (three if you include my wife), aviation and martial arts.

My wife is fascinated by aviation, both the technical aspects (she's an engineer) and quite likes going on trips so long as:-

(a) turbulence is minimal
(b) the aeroplane has doors, a windshield, and a cabin heater
(c) she has her camera.

I can handle that, and have learned that telling anecdotes involving engine failures from failed loops in vintage aeroplanes in her hearing is unwise. I also just smiled and signed the life insurance policy that she insisted upon.


In martial arts, she also shares my fascination - but given a choice of a 2 hour hard training session, or a 2 hour technical lecture on MA history, she'll take the latter. She also is much happier on her feet with a sword in her hand, than grappling on the floor in a dojo. So we do sword based stuff together, and I go off and teach Jiu Jitsu on my own. Not a problem either.


All about understanding the person you share your life with and their personal motivations really.

G

Is this a problem?
I have held a PPL since 1980 which is prior to meeting my wife. We have been married for 25 years and in all this time she has never flown with me or expressed a whish to do so, if fact the very oposite.
But whilst indifferent to me when I return home with tales of dairing do and greased 3 pointer landings in the cub, I find she oftain talks to her friends regarding my latest exploit and I think she is thankfull that I do not follow the more usual hobbies of her friends husbands and partners as this gives her a topic of conversation!


Stuart

If your wife is interested in travel?



You might try this to interest her in Flying.

We're off - Cannes, France Travel Blog




Good Luck




Charlie

I've decided that on balance telling the truth about "interesting" occurrences works out better. It probably helps that I've got across the general safety culture, and she is aware that for most eventualities there are several levels of backup plan available, and that most people walk away from a forced landing.

Now that she's actually seen a real life in flight emergency for herself (we sorted the problem and completed the trip as planned, but it was real while it lasted) I can't actually tell whether she's more worried or less worried than she used to be ...

My problem is the opposite - my other half really loves flying, in fact she doesn't really like me going without her. It's also costing us a lot more because she's doing her PPL and I'm sure when she completes it I'll be relegated to the RHS half the time:(

Oh, and she has very expensive tastes and doesn't see why the interior of an aircraft shouldn't be at least as luxurious as the equivalent price car!

Ah well, could be worse:)

Lister Noble

We must come from the same mould! with me Formula Ford, Formula 3 and Clubmans (Mallock) Lost sponsor, pregnant girlfriend/ then wife meant flying as and when £££ :)

Pace

MichaelJP59.........""Oh, and she has very expensive tastes and doesn't see why the interior of an aircraft shouldn't be at least as luxurious as the equivalent price car!"

Now that's a problem that will need some discussion.:uhoh:

Particularly since it's almost certainly true.

G

It's obvious...
she's pissed off you chose fixed wing rather than helicopters!

Is their really anything wrong with her not being interested in something you do?

I don't mean to be smart, but why should she be interested in aviation simply because you are?

If she comes home and wants to tell you about the great new shoes that she boughts and wants to tell you all about them do you show great interest? Maybe you'll be polite and show some interest for a few minutes. How about when she's still talking about them an hour later and about the ones that she was going to buy instead of these ones?

Then how about when this becomes a weekly event? How long before you start to try and polietly show her that you really aren't interested and that she should talk to her 'girl friends' about this sort of stuff?

You can subsitute shoes for pretty much anything else that girls found more exciting than men, or that another man finds more exciting than you.

I don't think that it's really any harm that she doesn't find aviation interesting.

Someone else described here what they do with their wife that has no interest in flying, and I thought it a lovely way to handle the situation. Whenever they go flying, they make sure to arrive home in exceptionally good humour, bringing a bunch of flowers for her (or chocolates whatever) and then makes her dinner, and all in all makes her feel special for the rest of the day. It didn't take long before he wife was suggesting that he should go flying this weekend, and she could easily see the benefits to her ;) What a good way of handling things ;)

dp

I did that and they were sniffed at as they were 'supermarket flowers'!

How can I afford to go to a proper florist when I have to pay for my flying?

Most women are not interested in aviation in the same way, and for the same reasons, as I am not interested in golf. Just not interested.

Taking me out on a golf course for a day, with some golfing women, would not increase my interest one little bit. Going to a golf dinner would be my idea of a night of hell (almost!).

Would I resent the time and money spent by my other half on golf? Not one bit. But do I want to hear about the birdie at the 16th? No.

As most posters are saying, some people just ain't interested. It's boring and dull.

Cheers

Whirls

Cooking a dinner is, I am reliably advised, a 99% sure way of getting the "desired result" ;) ;)

But seriously, a relationship does involve complementary activities and interests - if both are intelligent people.

Occassionally you will both have similar interests (I mean no dissimilar interests) but that is very rare.

There are relationships, mostly old traditional sorts, where one has little to do in their life and relies on the other one for everything. A woman who has no interests of her own, who saw marriage as the solution to everything, and is now stuck at home with kids (which let's face it is a pretty common scenario) is likely to resent the man flying, or indeed having any fun at all. I don't know of a solution to that - even the application of loads of £££ won't solve that one.

Children are a major major major challenge...

Finally it has to be said that IF you have no kids, and little in the way of common interests, then finding somebody else has to be considered. This is not the 1950s or even the 1980s (when digging out a new partner was a full-time job, so most people - myself included - shacked up with the first person who was interested). It's a lot easier today.

My girlfriend was delighted to be flown to Ostend but found the actual flying boring.

Try sitting in the right hand seat playing no piloting role whatsoever and I think you'll see her point!

In response to IO540, I'm delighted to say that I'm not part of a traditional "old style" marriage, nor is my wife "stuck at home with kids"............well actually she is sometimes. But she does have her own interests and since I stopped doing shift work a couple of years ago we have become fairly good at sharing duties. I reckon the big problem here is one of safety, a fear of something unpleasant happening to me and her having to pick up the pieces, literally. As stated in a previous post I will confront the issue over the weekend ( when life is calmer) and report back.

Are you sure there is an 'issue' to 'confront'?
The shoes analogy sounded spot-on to me.

My wife was pretty supportive, (she actually persuaded me to keep on going when I had decided I would never learn to flare), but she has never been especially interested in the details.

If there is a safety concern, buy her a trial lesson. Once I got the PPL, I did that before I took my wife up. I wanted her to see what a 'proper pilot' did before she climbed in with me and assumed I was doing it all wrong. (And all right, yes, I did think I might let somebody else find out whether she would get air-sick:eek:)

Actually, don't buy her a trial lesson. Buy her a three-pack of "pilots wife" lessons or whatever you want to call it. For a change, the instructor sits in the LHS, your wife in the RHS and the instructor teacher her what to do when you become incapacitated. Things like tuning 121.5, following vectors and making a safe landing in not-too-challenging conditions.

Throw in a few other easy-to-handle emergencies and if this gives her an idea, at the very least, that she's competent to do something in case of an actual emergency, she'll be a lot happier.

She's getting even with you. When I started flying (same year as you incidentally), I used to love to brag about it. Then I got sick, at dinner parties, of talking about it: "yes, it's safe. My plane flies at 110 knots. Umm, let's see, about 200 km/h. No, I don't wear a parachute. How far? Let's see about 5 and a half hours endurance, times 200, about 1000 km. No, I don't talk to a control tower all the time, my home base is uncontrolled. Yes, that exists, airports without control towers. Yes, it is safe. No I really don't worry about not having a parachute..." and on and on. Same speech, different party.

So I learned to shut up about it, except that my wife (who actively dislikes my flying but she's a fine gal otherwise...), now says nearly first thing at a party, that I fly so once again: "yes, it's safe. My plane flies at 110 knots. Umm, let's see, about 200 km/h. No, I don't wear a parachute. How far? Let's see about 5 and a half hours endurance, times 200, about 1000 km. No, I don't talk to a control tower all the time, my home base is uncontrolled. Yes, that exists, airports without control towers. Yes, it is safe. No I really don't worry about not having a parachute...".

I'm sure it's to get even for spending our hard earned cash on a spam can :}

Thank goodness Whirlybird posted because my response was going to be far less polite.