Just asked my wife the same question, as she's not in the slightest bit interested in my adventures in The Pitts. She says it's because she can't relate to it. Talk about the people, fine. Talk about technical stuff....eyes glaze over etc.

And there's a bit of the "burning crater in the ground, with some smouldering wings nearby" too, not helped by my unhealthy interest in aviation accidents.

Issue confronted......calmly over dinner.

My hunch was correct.Her problem is 10% cost, 90% safety. The cost issue is not really a problem, I don't need to dwell on it here. The real issue is one of me falling uncontrollably from the sky one day. To be honest my wife has a "mild" fear of flying i.e she will get into a plane if she has to but would rather not. BTW, when I say plane I mean B737 A320 etc, so a Cessna 172 is definitely a non-runner.

On the plus side she actually made a point of learning exactly what is involved in gaining a PPL i.e the training program, instructor qualifications, ground school etc and what would be involved if I wanted to go further with my training, i.e CPL. These are questions that she was intentionally avoiding asking because she was hoping the whole thing would go away.

I have gone to lengths to explain to her how important my own life is to me and how I have no intention of putting myself in danger. In fact there was a eureka moment when she remembered how sticky I am when it comes to safety. As a landscape gardener I use potentially dangerous equipment on a daily basis and have spent quite a lot of money insuring I am properly qualified/trained in all of my machinery. It's not as if she didn't already know this but fortunately this has helped her to realize that she's not dealing with a flying maniac but a normal balanced person:E who happens to love flying.

So we have agreed that I will not bore her with the technical details and that the option is open for her to join me on a lesson some day. :) So long as I, for my part, be careful up there.

It's great that you were able to talk about her fears with her and show her that you have some understanding of them. :D

As for channeling your enthusiasm for talking about flying away from your wife, I recommend forums like this, starting a blog or chatting with your instructor and other students/pilots at your school when you are not flying. There could be some contacts you make through this forum who might live not too far away and you could organize a fly in or a monthly meeting at the pub so you can get all that talk out of your system.

When non-fliers ask me if flying is safe, I inform them of the probability that you are far more likely to die driving to and from the airport than through any flying you might undertake from it. The media has a lot to answer for in portraying aviation as being far more unsafe than it actually is.

But that is only true of commerica air travel. The risks involved in light GA are significantly higher than that.

PACE, if you get your girlfriend and then your wife pregnant you can expect no sympathy:E

Some have found data suggesting it is comparable to a motorcycle.

However, motorcycle accidents are mostly caused by car drivers, whereas some 99.x% of general aviation accidents involve no other vehicle.

On top of that, the # of half blind car drivers has vastly increased since the 1970s when I was on 2 wheels. MC is now a decidedly dodgy proposition, but again mostly due to car drivers.

The risk in flying is almost entirely down to the pilot and, in fixed wing at least, very few serious accidents result from crap maintenance (which is just as well since crap maintenance is endemic ;) ).

If flying was as dangerous as MC (as the risk per mile data superficially suggests) I would never do it. I do it because most of the risk is down to me.

A lot of bike deaths are due to massive power and diminished reactions,or kids with no experience,or born again bikers with no experience.
Don't blame cars and car drivers for crap m/c riding!:ugh:

I like people who get their priorities straight :}

On a slight change of subject though:
Maybe in your corner of the woods, but when I was a young lad I spent some time in the ambulance service and I can assure you the majority of the ones I used to pick up had managed to crash all by themselves.

Pace,
Well, mine got it a few years ago and was not amused, so nowadays my friend from the fire brigade serves as my "next of kin" contact. Mind you, she still reckons that flying is still much safer than what I do for a living.

[ I hadn't crashed, btw. Spanish ATC lost track of me, I was only on Barcelona Approach, you see :ugh: ]

She tried it a couple of times. The second and last of those I thought it would be a good idea to take her to Courchevel for touch and goes and again, she was not amused. At all. :{

Luckily in France there are plenty of female pilots, so I don't mind she's not joining :E

when I got my licence I was not ready to take passengers, I wanted to get a bit of experience while I only had myself to worry about. I did, however, take to flying off with my tent and camping away, the first time was on the day my newly gained licence came through the letterbox.

My partner was not at all keen to fly (with me or anyone else, even commercial) but did concede that she worried about me while I was away. After 3 or 4 years she began to realise that I would go off flying and come back without injury or damage and often visited some interesting places. She eventually came and had a short ride in the aircraft, saw the relaxed expression on my face and enjoyed the flight. She has been all over with me ever since. I heard her explain it to her parents "it is better to be with him than sitting at home worrying about him".

For my part, I try to make the flight interesting. I adjust the route to pass over interesting features on the ground, white horses, nice houses, crop circles, steam railway lines, big rivers, castles, follies, harbours etc. I also fly low enough that we get a good view and have been known to circle round while she points her camera. I usually try to fly to places where something is happening, if I am just flying around for the sake of flying I go on my own. We generally try to get away from the destination airfield and explore rather than stop at the airfield cafe, keep it interesting.

This brings another point to mind. We have two aircraft, an old Rans S6, high wing, 65 mph, good view down and around, good for taking photos from and a Zenair 601ul, low wing, 90mph, bubble canopy, poor view down, canopy too close to your face for SLR camera with long lens. Guess which we prefer to fly about in. Yup, the Rans is better for enjoying the view and the trip.

Don't rush your partner into it, let them get used to the idea at their own pace and then do more than just fly.

Rans6..

My wife understands that such an interest is in fact exactly the opposite of unhealthy, and that it's precisely the safe pilots who put so much effort into reading and understand the reports with a view to not killing themselves the same way.

Just wanted to put my tuppance worth in.

First, thank god for people who advise communication. I haven't even started flying yet (starting in the next couple of weeks, now I've had a trial), but I know none of you would expect ATC to guess what you were going to do, so you communicate. Same for your partner. Well done for actually asking, rather than guessing!

Next, I have a very similar situation. My partner is fine with me learning to fly, a bit worried about the costs, but understandably worried about my safety. Stats make no difference, especially since I go to work each day on a motorbike :-)

Lastly, on the subject of bike safety, I am led to believe that the overall number of accidents may have gone up, but the number of fatalities in comparison to the number of riders on the road has gone down vastly. Also, that the majority of those fatalities are with no other car involved, or bike crossing the centre line into oncoming traffic.

As a good friend, who is a bike copper said to me--- bad luck can strike any time, but if riding a bike was all about luck, how come I have ridden every day for 26 years and never had an accident.....I am taking that principle into learning to fly. Good training, careful planning and attention to detail beat the odds every time!

Good luck, and please feel free to rave about flying to me any time. I couldn't stop, and have only been up once!

(now, to sell the house and fund the next few lessons !!!!)

You think flying with just a single engine is dangerous? Pah! Try flying without ANY engine!

My Wife accepts that there are dangers inherent with what I do and the tradeoff is the enjoyment I derive from it. She used to ride horses (statistically a FAR more dangerous activity) so understands risk/reward.

IanPZ, yes indeed, it's a very expensive undertaking. In my case approx. E3/min including about 10 minutes on each occasion waiting for liners to land/take off. There was a time when I would have been glad to pay this for such a good vantage point. Having said that, every time I step out of the plane after my lesson I feel completely thrilled. You need to find a balance between what you can afford and not leaving too long between sessions. I have covered some of the cost by not changing my car ( something I generally do every 3 yrs). I have many hobbies but this is the only one that gives me an overwhelming sense of being "alive".

I learnt to fly fairly late in life: my wife actually bought me a trial lesson: I loved it so much I signed up immediately and 6 months later I had my PPL.

That was 17 years ago.

Prior to starting training my wife was full of good ideas including the time -honoured lunch in Le Touquet.

Then something changed as soon as I got my licence: she declined all offers to fly with me and has never once asked me if I've had a good flight or agreed to accompany me to a pilot curry/piss up.

The only time she's remotely interested is if I've been flying with one of my kids or grandson, but only to ask them if they've had a good time.

It's sad to think of the past 17 years of missed opportunities: You chaps with 'flying partners' don't know how lucky you are......

Cusco

Have you asked her why?

I started to learn to fly after I got divorced. Had I started when I was still with the ex, she would have definitely been resentful of me having fun (I had had loads of unpleasant examples of that already from her, but being much younger I accepted that as being normal female behaviour, whereas today in the same situation I would have legged it instantly - though a marriage and kids will make that much harder) and while I can only guess how it might have been resolved, it would have probably involved spending an equal amount of money on something for her to do.

However, we had small children then and if we were going to do something together (but without the kids) the kids would have had to be with a nanny, but the ex bitterly resented the prospect of a "stranger" messing with "her" kids. Result: a deadlock where neither parent is able to have any fun :ugh:

I think many relationships have an underlying dynamic which tries to prevent either person doing anything. So the man escapes down the pub; the pub across the road from here has its bar propped up by the same ~ 5 men every night, and most of them are married with kids.

I've also wondered often about the home "lives" of the many men often seen by the side of rivers and canals all evening drowning maggots.

G

Yes, I am sorry to say that disfunctional relationships are the norm rather than the exception.

I am divorced, and got fleeced as usual, but in most cases the men have only got themselves to blame for what they got into. And nowadays there is no reason for settling with somebody who basically resents the stuff which you find interesting.

Well its not all doom and gloom! I've been happily living in sin since leaving uni with my GF and she always knew I was into flying as I used my gliding tales to chat her up in the first place. Once I got my power ticket she started coming with me and although she was nervous at first she now loves looking at the nice houses and the trips down to the west country to see our repective sets of out-laws. When I've been out of work she has been kind enough to pay for fuel for my group plane to keep me current.


I'm not sure if it has any bearing but we're in our mid-thirties and have not opted for marriage or children as yet. She encourages me to pursue my dreams and I encourage her.

Doubtless when we get married and have kids we'll become as self destructive as everyone else.

Perhaps the rest of you lot should try living in sin and not procreating immediately in order to figure out if you're compatible before it becomes contractual. I may edit out this last paragraph as it sounds a little harsh.

I agree. Works great in my situation.

In N Europe, where the concept of the extended family is not strong, marriage is principally a financial security thing anyway, with the benefit going to the person who brought in the fewer assets :)

I think two things get conflated here: interest in aviation and interest in flying.

For us on this forum the two are largely one and the same - not so for our partners. My wife doesn't have the slightest interest in aviation, IOW she doesn't care one jota how an airplane works, what the intricacies of flight planning are, etc, etc.

However, she loves to go flying! By which she means 'going somewhere', a local bimble isn't of much interest. Here, there is a happy confluence of interests, as I pretty much feel the same and only 'bimble' to stay current if no bigger trip is happening. Guess I'm lucky, as we even did our honeymoon in a Cessna - which involved considerable planning as it happened in southern Africa. There is, however, nothing quite comparable to landing at a lodge in your own airplane..... which wifie is more than happy to attest to :ok:

I'm not sure if this applies to many other ladies, but emphasizing the pleasures of private flying over the general interest in all things aviation may, just may!, help.

I think that is certainly true; for example on one of the early trips I did with my girlfriend we went away to an island on the west coast of Scotland just for a little time together away from things - something that I know she feels we don't always get enough of. It was a good way of introducing her to my slightly mysterious hobby and generally left her with a good impression of flying.

Subsequently she has come to with me to Marseille and also a trip from our place in Scotland down to London for a weekend. She's always been supportive, even on the occasion once when we had to delay a trip by a day due to fog at the airfield. By taking her places I think it keeps a purpose to flying which means she is more likely to view it in a favourable light.

Since my partner is as obsessed with flying his aeroplane as I am mine, I cannot but add that I think it is about testing the water in the same way one does with other family members: a short flight in smooth air to start with, if at all possible. You can tell fairly soon if there's any interest beyond the sightseeing aspect, or getting from A to B, if that's part of the mission. More importantly, unless you are incredibly thick-skinned, it's fairly easy to judge what your partner/mother/sister/brother is doing. Beyond the polite response, at worst, (if you hate it, say so, you're allowed, you're family...), there are fewer subtle reactions than one might think.

So, having got the response and reactions & read the body language if necessary, you know whether to work on future flights or leave it there for the time being. At least at this stage they can see what a small aeroplane looks and feels like (how many people never get up close to anything with one engine (or none)?) and thus understand a whole lot more about what you are going to be enthusing. For all those who ask the questions and have enthusiasms of their own, there are as many who see what it is and how you love it, but are happy for you to do your thing and will likely be proud of you for doing it too, but just don't want to be involved. Different passions are a good thing too. Just be prepared to do that one round of golf or whatever in the interests of balance :yuk:

OMG so much of this seems soooooo familier.

Was into competition motor cycling when met wife to be, there was mild interest shown but being somewhat cynical these days I believe it was more my bank balance that held her main interest.

Due to failing down the stairs (slipped on something she'd left on them!) I sustained a back injury which ended the m/c stuff. Shortly after that met up with local PPL guys and having always had had an interest in aviation, to cut a long story I went and completed my PPL. During the learning phase there was very little interest shown and all I got was a "thats nice" when my licence dropped through the letter box.

Since then interest has been zero, she hasnt even been up to see my aircraft which is all of 15mins away. Ive tried the quite chat, what her concerns are etc etc all to no avail. However its a different story re her interest which involves horses. If 100% attention isnt paid to hearing about every hoof problem, jump, fall and latest horsey rumour all hell is let loose!! Our 2 daughters are also involved with them and I love to go an see them all riding and I try to help out at the stables when I can - love seeing them enjoying their hobby. Interesting thing is that they cost more than my flying (apparently they have to all have a spare horse as well) and need daily maintainece!

My wife used to be happy doing commercial flights to holiday destinations but that changed after a trip back from Tunisa on a UK airline when they just announced mid journey that there was "an issue with the plane" and that we were going into Gatwick. We flew back at low level so I presumed there was a pressurisation problem although we we never told and after a hairy landing (with attendant fire engines) the crew up and left us on the tarmac for 2hrs! The event freaked her out and I have every sympathy. She has announced that she hates flying, when Im at airshows for weekends she wont contact me, never asks how it was - basically if it was flying related I was blanked! Our relationship reached a point when on one occasion I returned happily home to be greeted with " I thought flying was dangerous but you keep comming back!" Had the impression she wasnt joking.

O how things have changed recently, met a female who is learning to fly so to help her with her map reading I took her for a few flights and then to an airshow or two. To my delight she loved the airshows and asks if she can go to more. My wife has now become VERY interested as to my flying to the point where its now 1001 questions on every trip out. Not sure what was worse, no interest or the inquisition on every flight!

Sounds like you need to upgrade your relationship :)

Men are such mugs, and I include myself in that 100%.

Tell me about it. My ex was horse mad too. It is a totally all-consuming hobby, with heavy emotions flowing whenever The Horse throws a wobbly, which given it has the intelligence and manipulative manners of a 2 year old child, is quite often. The whole thing is well supported by an army of horse dentists and farriers of whom most drive top end BMWs, not to mention some good looking guys who "fix fences" :)

This part of the UK (Sussex) is jam packed with women who desperately look for a man (any man, so long as he doesn't beat them up too often) who has enough money to buy a 4x4, a horsebox, and pay for stabling or a field, etc. I fell for that trap back in the 1980s :)

Compared to horses, a plane is no trouble at all... more expensive though - a horse costs about £3000/year and that is if you have your own field (we had 3 acres; my ex still lives there, on my account :) ). If you have to pay for a full livery it is probably comparable to flying 50-100hrs/year.

I would not have gone out with another horsey woman, after that.

The funny thing is that if a man was into horses, and was essentially jobless, no woman would go after him :)

Yup. We had ten acres, horses and donkeys. Then the Mrs. ran off with a chap who attended all the same equine shows we did...:rolleyes:

Backpacker, in post no. 38, brings up the most IMPORTANT suggestion of all.
The trouble with taking your lady up with you is that almost all men like to show off and impress the female. Sitting in the RH seat with a half-baked low time pilot who is mightily convinced of his ability is not usually a good experience for any woman. Especially if she is his partner and is well aware of all his shortcomings.

Say "I would love to take you flying, dear, but I would be much happier if first you could accept my gift to you of a day's flying with a PROFESSIONAL INSTRUCTOR!' Find a flying school with a female instructor - who will not only be safe, but can be a role model. The suggestion of Backpacker that your partner qualify as a Safety Pilot who can manage if you become incapacitated (any worse than usual) is excellent. Only after she has accepted this gift and still wants to fly with you, keep it short and smooth.
Buy her an airband set, arrange for her to learn to use the radio.
Let HER plan your trip together. Check the weather, use the charts etc.

Or even better, go on a course together at a gliding club next summer!

I found that the more I told my girlfriend about weather and possible system failure modes, the more concerned she has become about flying - not just ours but commercial flying too. She has a Philosophy PhD and is super bright and you would think an explanation of some risk factor would be accepted, but she has a point that when I am flying in IMC she asks "how can you be sure there is nothing lurking in there"? Fortunately I am no fan of long enroute IMC either...

GA pilots tend to have a gory interest in crashes, and the evidence thus far on the recent A380 "engine back end walkabout" suggests it was far more serious than what made the press. It is easy to get talking to one's family etc about these things, but it doesn't reduce their fears.

A good point about the copilot course but not many owners of the fairly advanced planes would let the typical PPL-scene instructor go off in their plane. Few instructors know about engine management for example.

But basically "normal" women tend to be more interested in the destinations, rather than flying there, and that's perfectly fine.

A nice clean modern plane does help a lot :)

"A little learning," please, FFS. Not everybody who misquotes this can be doing so as a deliberate recursive joke.

Well I don't have the problem of a husband or partner haha but my family have no interest in flying at all- besides the cost and how many hours until I get the lisence! I can't remember mum askingbout safety really other than whn I mentioned going solo. My sister just cuts me off when I mention planes and my best friend talks to me but just doesn't understand the fun of it or hoe I'm so interested and obviously I can't take either of them up with me nor afford flying lessons for them so I'm stuck with telling all you guys how cool it is which you allready know!! And I don't like telling people at air cadets boitit either cus it seems like boasting. Sorry about spelling too I'm in a rush and my iPod corrects me- if I was your wife I'd be happy to talk to you about flying haha

Good on you, Hannah! If you can find a copy on Amazon, get hold of Ernest K. Gahn's book FATE IS THE HUNTER.

And if you live in the midlands, we have 15 people near your age in our gliding club at Shenington who enjoy yakking about it all! They usually go solo on the 16th birthday! (weather permitting). Friday evening is the usual meet up time, but during winter, the kids turn up on Sundays.

as the old song has it, "....I became a bore when I learned to soar, just watch them edge away....!"

Which part? If you are referring to the acronym, it stands for "For Fυck's Sake", which curiously, is meant to be an euphemism for "For Christ/God/Someone important in your culture's Sake".

If instead you are referring to Gertrude's comment itself, he is pointing out that you have misquoted a line from a poem by Alexander Pope, and how that is a very common occurrence.

... and did so with a quip any logician would be proud of.

I suppose I should admit that I haven't actually read it, and that what I know about it comes from things my mother quoted at me when I was a teenager and she was catching up with the degree that she never passed when she was a teenager.

The other bit that most people know from that poem, and are less likely to misquote, is "fools rush in where angels fear to tread".

This:

Is why we use acronyms.:=

Alas there is far worse for young minds on the internet than FFS.

Dublinpilot:

Well yes and no. If you lump all GA risk together then yes, you're correct. But then not all flights are of equal risk. Some of us, doing this as a hobby and not a necessity, simply stay in the airport restaurant drinking coffee and swapping lies when the weather is dodgy. Others using their plane as a "must get there" device, are more inclined to take risks. I for one have long realized that as a VFR day/night/on-top pilot, if I MUST get there, my VW is a better bet than my Beech so I play it safe and drive.

Flying VFR on a fine day in a basic, simple, spamcan doesn't carry the same risk as trying to do single-pilot IFR in icing conditions in a twin when the critical engine conks out. It is possible to manage one's risk, especially if one only flies for fun, by being selective in the types of flights we do and the conditions we fly in. At this time of the year in my part of the world, sometimes snoozing safely by the wood stove on a Saturday afternoon looks an awful lot more attractive than flying... or if I'm really up to it, an afternoon of skiing instead (which is probably at least as high risk as flying at my age :} )

Ah yes. Usually the pilot's fault, when a light aircraft goes splat. Either get-home-itis, or an exaggerated opinion of his capability....

Why do they call the Beechcraft Bonanza the Doctor Killer?

That's the good part of GA risk. It is down to you.

And simple things (like having some juice in the tanks) make a big difference to the individual's risk profile.

I read all the accident reports I can, and like all of us try to take something "home" from each of them, but sadly there is nothing to take home from most of them.

However, what we really see is many peoples' crap PPL training coming through. They were OK so long as they stuck to sunny Sundays flying down the coast, but they could not handle anything more tricky. I still know pilots who have done far more hours than I have and who can't read tafs or metars.

Unfortunately the accident reports leave out what to me would be the really interesting stuff: the pilot's psychology, and his detailed flying history. That stuff has to be relevant. Very occassionally, there is a crash where I happen to know a bit more of the background, and while this tends to throw up additional questions, it does provide a useful background.

The problem with that description is that there is another side to it.

To make a manufacturing success in GA, one has to appeal to new, young, and wealthy pilots. It is no good trying to flog modern stuff to the old anoraks who make up most of GA - in the UK, USA or anywhere else.

But every time somebody tries this type of marketing (which is totally necessary) they end up killing a bunch of "doctors" :)

I guess I have to be thankful. Both partners I've had in my flying career love flying. My wife is proud of us owning our Mooney and loves to fly in it, even the fact that we 'll have to shell out a lot of cash now for the engine revision has not really dampened her comitment to stay behind me here. I know I am lucky.

My first partner many years ago was more than happy to fly with me in my C150 at the time and we went all over Europe in it.

I hear a lot of negative things from others however, most having been said here already. I also think it is not a pheonmenon restricted to aviation but more of a general problem. Relationships today do often take on the character of a battle for dominance and a total lack of mutual understanding for the other's interest and needs. Even the very popular "try before you marry" option today is not foolproof, many partners change radically even during the honeymoon, once they got the papers signed.

Another issue these days is that many of us are simply overworked in all regards and can not really enjoy anything outside work anymore. It is sort of understandable that after collapsing on the sofa on Friday evening, some people won't simply have the energy to accompany their significant other for whatever pursuit they wish to share over the weekend and their idea of quality time is to finally get the sleep they lack from the 18 hours days they put in over the week.

Before I decided to go back into aviaiton after a 7 year hiatus I talked about it with my wife and she encouraged me, a bit to my surprise as she is usually economical with our finances. Yet she determined that I would be much nicer to have around if I have something to balance from my otherwise very stressful life and she'd not mind the occasional trip to the med herself. The very idea to be at the beach after 2 flight hours became pretty attractive to her as well.

I reckon communication is the most important bit about all of this. Make your intentions and wishes clear, and try to sell it by getting her to see what is in it for her. If all that does not work, then then it is a tough decision to take.

Best regards

AN2 driver

forgot something :)

Some time this year when going out to my plane on the apron of ZRH I noted a couple going for their obviously first flight together, both in their early 20ties. Either the guy had been a tad boastful when telling her what plane he was actually flying, or she had a totally wrong impression of the term private airplane, as she headed straight for a Falcon 20 sitting on the tarmac in the general direction they were walking. When he pointed out to her that, err, sorry, it's not that one but the Archer behind it, the lady did not take it too kindly and dressed the guy down quite vocally in the sense of "how dare you to even suggest that I step on anything but a business jet" e.t.c. to the stunned silence of some onlookers. She marched off on her high heels with surprising speed and vanished, probably never to be seen again.

Good riddance for him I reckon, she might have proven a much more expensive pasttime then flying. :}