White Waltham
 

Keep it short but it would appear pilots only welcome if arriving by air............... by car, as I was today, in the area with my son we were refused entry but welcome by air!! (not being a member of the club) Have been flying in for lunch/breakfast on average 3 times per month for the past few years. Firsy flew in 19 years ago....

Question: I could have been potentialy £40,000 + worth of punter who would now be looking elsewhere...................... Which is exactely what I did 20 years ago after being ignored by reception staff at another ( long gone) club............. Do we ever learn?

As an aside I was intending to eat lunch there and I believe the restaurant is not part of the club and so revenue lost for a third party.:mad:

I can understand your frustration; indeed the WLAC website West London Aero Club - Bar and Catering states:

To me, this is somewhat ambiguous - 'visitors' does seem to imply that anyone 'visiting' is welcome whether arriving by land, sea or sky. OK, perhaps forget sea.

A polite note to WLAC requesting clarification would seem appropriate. Mention that you were rather disappointed to have been refused admission, particularly since you have been a regular flying visitor for quite some time.

Equally, one can well imagine that uncontrolled numbers of visitors would seriously annoy Club members and that, of course, should be respected.

I once planned to fly to WW to meet a friend for lunch (she of Pink Headset fame!) who was driving from London. The weather was horrible, so I drove instead. When I arrived, I signed in and went straight to the bar manager and said "I was intending to fly in to meet a friend who's coming here for lunch, but I've had to drive due to the weather - will it still be OK for us to have lunch?". No problem. And the fish and chips were great!!

But WLAC could usefully clarify the club house admission rules on their website, I do agree.

I've been going to WLAC for nearly 40 years - I plan to go there on the 40th anniversary of my first ever visit as a ULAS student later this year. It's always been a wonderful place!

Got to agree the visitor policy is bizzare. Anything that gets cash behind the bar can only be good given how often the caterers bail out. I understand the policy started when certain members could not get a seat because of 'outsiders' If the club members didn't drape their coats and bags over every spare chair then stand at the bar all day the issue may be different.

You could always say you are thinking of learning to fly and want some information. That should get you past the gatekeepers. You could also join as a social member, or say you are on your way to pay your landing fee- that will throw them.

I must say they have become much more customer focussed recently having got rid of several of their sales prevention tools. (Quote often heard: "You can only fly here if you are good enough....")

Thanks for making me feel better.............. I do think that it is one of the best places (airfields) to be by a long chalk.... was gobsmacked....... calm now........... but I must say that I fly all over the world and spend down time seeking out and visiting local flying clubs and have never been turned away............. How much money has been inadvertantly lost to another club or to aviation, period with this policy......... compare this attitude with:


Shoreham
Popham
Sandown
Bembridge
Compton Abbas
Headcorn etc etc

Visitors should be encouraged, after all if not potential customers they could become the next protester against what is deemed to be an elitist pursuit.

It was the Summer Ball at White Waltham yesterday and I know that they were snowed under getting ready for that. That could have been the reason that you were refused entry.

I will bring this thread to the attention of the airfield management today and seek some clarification.

A business that thinks it's OK to turn people away in this economic climate?
Unbelievable!
There's no such thing as a business with too much work, only ones that are poorly organised can't cope.

As a member of WLAC I would be embarrassed if a visitor was turned away without good reason and I would hope that an appropriate level of hospitality was extended.

WLAC is not like your average flying club though. To compare with Kerdunker's example of Shoreham, which I also use regularly, WLAC is closer to a traditional private members' club. At somewhere like Shoreham, despite having very good facilities and being very accessible to visitors, there is virtually no spirit or community feel. Club members barely know each other and have little more in common than just paying bills at the same tills.

WLAC does provide have a strong sense of commumnity, camaraderie etc. People get to know each other and socialise together. Sometimes it even reminds me a little of my time on RAF squadrons or in an Officers' Mess. Shoreham just does not compare.

These benefits of membership come at a fairly considerable price but one which overall I consider to be worthwhile. As a paying member I would be somewhat put out if I could not make full use of the facilities because the club was swamped by non-paying visitors. I am sure that the bar and lawn would become an absolute free-for-all if access was unrestricted.

I am sure this was not the case when you visited and I would hope that as many guests as possible could be welcomed in but a line would have to be drawn somewhere.

No problems for me
 

I've recently joined - I visited at during a weekday a couple of times beforehand and found it very friendly. Not been there during a busy day yet though.

What's the problem. It is a members only club. If you fly in you pay landing fees & therefore you are welcome to use all the facilities. Why not pay to become a social member if you pop in there by car. The rules there are different but the airfield is different & is a fantastic place to relax & enjoy.

Absolutely - and I understand there have been a number of cases recently of random members of the general public turning up and generally treating the place like a public picnic park, which has led to a slightly more structured approach to checking membership.

Of course, Bentley the club Collie was originally hired to check that everyone was adhering to the membership policy, but the fatal mistake was allowing him to write his own job description - as I've remarked elsewhere, the result was 17 pages of closely typed A4 text (difficult if you've got paws) which repeated the words

"Throw the ball.....throw the ball...throw the ball..."

...and, 17 pages later....

"...just throw the bleeeeeedin' ball, will you?"

Wretched oiks! Don't they know their place? I hope that their ignorant behaviour won't cause any unnecessary restrictions on others.

It's OK Beags, there's no chance you'll be mistaken for a random oik - your photo has been circulated to Bentley and the new Deputy Security Collie - she's the one you need to worry about....

Bryn would like a full description, photo and introduction as soon as possible please :E
He's still having difficulty posting here but can log in without any problem. :(
I have driven in twice now (a much safer option than having me try to land there) :ooh: and been made very welcome. I was, however, meeting friends who are members there.

Ummmm. Once a long time ago when I was flying almost incessantly at WW, one Maurice Looker gave me free membership to the club in perpetuity. Wonder if that still stands? ;)

Some interesting points raised by this thread.

Certainly, if you have paid to join a club then you expect the benefits of a private club.

But aviation is very good at scoring own goals and excluding the public will not help when fighting Nimbys or when trying to increase club membership/aviation enthusiasm.

Is there nowhere that a public viewing enclosure could be created? GA should be encouraging public interest.

Public viewing enclosure - I though that was what the car park was for??

Oi Harding, you got a problem with that?

KERDUNKER:

You could always have offered to pay the usual landing fee and then you might have been more welcome.

He probably wanted that as his own job description but he'll no doubt forgive you if you buy him a curry*. ;)
*At least once a week for the foreseeable future

My experience of WW mirrors that of KERDUNKER.

I popped in about a month ago to view the notice board & grab a cold drink & was told that I couldn't.

Never been back since & never will. There may well be some interesting shares available but who's going to find out about them? Not me!

Perhaps you should make use of the pilot shop when visiting. Presumably it's not limited to members only and WLAC security will let you on site to buy a new chart, or some such?

Interesting dilema for the club. I guess like many others, I didn't just walk in and become a member at WW but sort of "transitioned" over a period of time:

1) Flew in once and liked what I saw
2) Live fairly locally, so popped in once or twice for a superb sunset beer
3) Flew in again
4) Fancied advancing my skills (IMC) so finally joined

the above perhaps over a period of two years.

Have now been a member for a couple of years and can't think of many better places in the SE to fly (Compton and Andrewsfield perhaps being comparable in terms of club atmosphere/facilities?).

Vino, the "public" can simply sit in their cars on the bit of grass next to the members carpark and view, but appreciate it is not the same as popping in for a pint of Marlow bitter

If you find a share of a Waltham based aircraft you will have to pay for full flying membership!.... but you will get free landing fees.

So refusing to go there you can have a wry smile every time you drive past & whilst thinking how much you are saving not going there!

KERDUNKER,

Next time just say: "it's all right, I'm a friend of Bob Davy" :E

Then that is good, but is there a mechanism where interested members of the public can leave the car park enquire about learning to fly?

White Waltham
 

As a former Manager and Instructor at a Northwest Flying School I cannot let the chance of meeting and encouringing a potential new member being barred and going off to the competition. I would suggest that it is in the best interest of everyone to enable the general publc access to the flying schools in order to meet and greet and promote the interest of potential members to the mutual benefit of everyone.

My club used to have all the usual notices at the entrance including the words Club, Private, Danger of..., Low Flying Aircraft - you all know what I mean. We rebranded the Club as a Centre to make it sound more inclusive, removed the inappropriate signage and replace it with Visitors Welcome, Information and Trial lessons available, Enquire at... etc. We added signs showing the way to the office and car park to keep people safe.

Even private clubs need new members from time to time!

Hey False Capture

I thought you were trying to give advise on how to get into the club & not how to get a lifetime ban !

Offers of food sponsorship to certain members could be an idea, eh what eharding? ....Oh you are fully booked for the next 6 months on that sponsorship scheme are you :ok:

[QUOTE][I wonder if they could offer temporary membership for the day (at cost) – reap some extra revenue and possibly drive some more future business?/QUOTE]

Essentially, that would appear to be what you get in a landing -fee, IE use of all members' facilities including one landing and one departure...

As a private club, there has to be some way of filtering out undesirables. (otherwise the "private" aspect would be redundant)

First filter is undoubtedly the arrival method. Afellow pilot is likely to "fit in" anyway, and extension of facilities to a fellow-aviator is a given...........so, the issue revolves around
"Non-Airborne visitation"....."blagging" your way in , is IMHO, churlish and poor form.
As others have posted, offering to pay a Landing-fee, should satisfy honour.

Perhaps WW could look at their constitution and perhaps afford "Day-Membership" for a fee, to those showing a pilot's license in their name*

As a former Yacht-club member, we were automatically affiliated to the RYA and could expect acceptance at any other RYA affiliated sailing establishment, anywhere.

My last club now has a "day-membership" which allows non-members to sail on the Club's waters (subject to insurance etc.) and use the facilities. The fee is such that any more than about 3 visits per annum , makes it cheaper to join, though there is also a restriction on number of visits in any 12-month period.


You don't have to be Elitist, there are work-rounds without alienating the core-membershipto whom the committee should communicate the value of this extra revenue.

* Would allow former airmen to visit....My sister recently moved from a bungalow backing onto WW and her partner served at WW (as a secretary) during Nat. Service.He did get the odd jolly, though.

You always get'em, the little men with lots of power. Some years ago, I turned up at the gates of a private club (A boat club in this case). I was refused entry by the harbourmaster, who, had he bothered to read his mail, would have learnt that I was actually doing the club a favour, by donating some equipment for which they had a need. My protestation that my visit had been authorised by the committee fell on deaf ears and he stood his ground.

I could not physically turn my vehicle around in the space available. So I stood my ground. Impasse!

Luckily the Chairman turned up and let me in and I understand later "had a word" with the harbourmaster about reading his daily orders. I later joined the club and spent many years on the committee.

DLTBGYD

D.

Definitely. It was the boat club's own premises. It was not a coastal "harbour", more an inland marina exclusively for the use of the members of the club.

landing on 09L this mornining and so flew over WW, looking down at the field felt sad , days off now so proper aeroplane out and coffee at Compton Abbas I suppose............... Whos Bob Davy........... is he the owner;)

As an aside, years ago taking part in an airshow at West Malling, arrived by road and had to pay Adolf on the gate the entrance fee!!! (Mass drop from DC3s)

Just say you've turned up to attend the eating contest, to beat eharding to the bottom of the specials board. This will ensure instant respect and carve you a path straight to the bar.

P.s.... Good luck! :E

CS - that is a very good idea. As a member at White Waltham I will suggest to the committee that they consider something along these lines. For example I think that anyone carrying AOPA membership should be allowed in as a guest without payment, but up to a maximum number of visits per year (say four times). If they like it and wished to return more often then we would be delighted if they joined !

This would need to be restricted to AOPA members only and, say, one partner just to ensure we were not overun. As far as the general members are concerned, we would be delighted to have pilots such as Kerdunker dropping in from time to time as it is very much a pilot oriented club and we have a shared love of all things aviation related. As mentioned, I will speak to several of the committee members and report back here when I get any news !

There is currently absolutely no problem for general members of the public to access 'Ops' to enquire about flying. I regularly see this happening and if they are enthusiastic they end up staying for twenty minutes or more chatting with one of the instructors about the whole experience. It's just that they can't come in and use the club facilities if they are not actually progressing an interest in flying.

Drambuster

Drambuster.- your club's constitution would normally lay out terms and conditions for Members' guests...number at any time, number of visits etc. this stops one person bringing in a charabanc full of mates,
OTOH, in the case of a celebration, it's not unknown for random members to sign -in the permitted number of guests,until all are legal.

(you DO have a visitor's book??? )

Unless you specifically demand AOPA membership, I'd suggest a wider scope , to take in , say, LAA, BHGA, BMAA etc. members....remember this is only a "grockle" filter, you'd still get their landing-fee, or day-pass fee, if that's the way you went.

The Sailing-Club was affiliated to the RYA and therefore paid a goodly chunk of cash to them each year, so it could be argued that members had already paid for the reciprocal arrangements with other clubs.

We also had "invitation meets" which closely parallel the "fly-ins", Again, both visitors and members paid a small fee towards the races and the ensuing trophies and sustenance. all entrants had to produce a valid insurance certificate.


It's the details that take the hammering-out to try to eliminate inconsistencies and unfairness, both to the members who'se substantial annual fees keep the club afloat, balanced against the fellow enthusiast who wishes to "sound-out" the atmosphere and possibility of joining.

I don't think there isany members' organisation, Trade or Leisure, in this country, that doesn't struggle to recruit and retain members.

Recently, I've had Flyers from the local Golf club, Conservative Club and Health club, all extolling their virtues and offering low-cost entry.

5 years ago, they all had waiting-lists!

Now, Don't get me started on the difficulty of finding volunteers for committee and official duties!

Vino "Then that is good, but is there a mechanism where interested members of the public can leave the car park enquire about learning to fly?"

Yes, you simply walk through the gate and go to the flight office. If thats a bit challenging [in the mental and not physical sense] then one should perhaps consider an alternate hobby

My membership enquiry was met with great enthusiasm and included a walk down the flight line to look at the club aircraft and a cup of tea and chat with the CFI

eharding, will you be gracing Conington with your presence?

weird management at WW. I tried to join there when I bought my aircraft in 2002. I had been in and the manageress had shown me around, agreed a parking rate for my aircraft and showed me the club rules etc. All very reasonable. The day before my aircraft was going to be flown in for me I went along to pay the necessary fees and the CFI got involved. He rejected my membership as my Rans (microlight) was deemed to be "too slow in his circuit!"

That bit of stupidity has cost WW some 17 grand so far.

I ended up at Brimpton, cheaper, friendlier, dawn to dusk freedom without arrangement and all the tea and coffee I can drink.

Perhaps he was right to be concerned, microlights are taking over.

Rans6

Horses for courses.:confused: