Suggest you and your pax are more suited for the VIP area at EGLL or maybe EGWU, you pay a little more but they give you large amounts of respect & are used to people arriving in all sorts of uniform, from Crowns & even down to orange boiler suits:)

I still don't understand the mystery that surrounds the scandelous way your paying passenger was treated. What happened - spill the beans please? Otherwise we'll just have to assume that your SLF was caught dogging in the carpark....

Probably blocked Eds view of the specials menu.

ZA

PP,

Thanks; we do go to EGLL too. Quite a bit cheaper than EGLW. Strangely enough, a previous uniform was an orange flying coverall with a crown on it. That is, when we weren't wearing the dark blue ones.

There's no mystery about anything and no scandal. ;)

Thanks for the Character reference ZA, and good to see you at Conington Aeros Comp today!

We decided not to risk going to WW and had our lunch at a Pub by the Thames in Windsor instead. I will try flying in at some point as I have long wanted to visit

Oh, almost forgot, if you are an Aero-ist and want Flying clothing sans eppoulettes I may know someone who can help:E

I do wish you dim civvies would learn that an 'epaulette' is the loop of cloth on uniform shirts or flying overalls upon which rank slides - the things (often with various gold bars) which seem to cause you so much angst - are worn.

Either one wears a uniform or one does not. Removal of uniform rank slides in order to avoid causing alleged offence to a few Golf Alfa Good Morning poseurs in a flying club bar is plain daft - far better to change into off-duty clothes altogether, surely?

Beagle, pictured earlier, along with the horse he rode in on.

http://www.plus7minus5.co.uk/Proon/B...HeRodeInOn.JPG

I rest my case. He could have someone's eye out with that sword, if they hadn't already been blinded by the sunlight reflecting from the bling.

^^^ that's a cunning stunt ,but he's far too young to have 15K + posts, so obviously it's not BEAgle :}

Not according to the dictionary, it isn't. I agree with your "rank slides", however.

... because, as was pointed out earlier, you were flying a commercial operation into White Waltham.

If you were a passing Nigel (or Walter Mitty), who wandered in wearing full regalia, the round would follow as surely as night follows day.:E

It wasn't me who brought that subject up, I merely responded to the implied criticism.

[QUOTE]I do wish you dim civvies would learn that an 'epaulette' is the loop of cloth on uniform shirts or flying overalls [QUOTE]

Great one! Nice.... Well done BEagle.

Being a thick civvy I feel too inferior to mention that the word "epaulets" simply means "shoulders".

Won't be taking it too literally when I walk into the bar, I'm not so tight as to go lopping off both arms to avoid buying a round. :}

Bryn the Sheepdog has moved...

http://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/3844...pdog-wlac.html

Feel free to continue the discussion in a more relaxed environment!

SD

I prop up the bar most evenings at Waltham. The clubhouse is great, best in the world, but the way the club is run gets worse and worse. In charge is the wife of the owner, and she has no interest in aviation. She has employed a man as her manager who seems afraid to talk to people on a social basis, and between them they are dragging the club down to a trough of mire. Most of the people who work there are trying to leave (at least the ones who chat to us mortals - the management don't afford us that respect).A ground crew lad is off after a year, saying he can't afford to live on the money and put up with the lack of motivation from management, as well as the insults from the owner. He reckons that for a 180 hour month he takes home about £900. Everyone who works as ground crew, operations or in the membership areas is actively looking for jobs away from Waltham. In a customer service operation, everyone who works there is demotivated and insulted by the woman running the place. They will be recruiting for staff soon and obviously a job is better than no job, but the whole set up is bad. One of the wheezes they pull is that when the weather is bad, they send staff home without paying them. Sure it's against the law, but what kind of ethics does a company have when they are paying staff less than £6 an hour anyway.
So don't be surprised by a poor Waltham welcome. Although you want to get in, most of them want to get out.

These items posted about White Waltham sum up this most loveable of airfields to a tee. There are the members who hotly defend the place, and visitors, some of whom are warm in affection and others who have had a cool reception. It is a club; it does not offer good handling facilities of the type hoped for by Shy Torque, and the service and welcome can be excellent or poor.
I remember talking to Shy Torque before his departure, and he revealed the extent of the poor service he received. It was the sort of service which eHarding and Gorilla would find nothing wrong with, because they are using the club as a social facility, and would think nothing of traipsing though longish wet grass. However Shy Torque had a VIP on board, received very curt and unhelpful treatment from the radio operator (an ex-flying instructor at Waltham) and even though I was very apologetic to the pilot and his passenger, Waltham has lost potentially a few hundred pounds a year in landing fees, and suffered damage to its reputation. The pilot chose Waltham to land at as it was the nearest public facility to Windsor Castle, an occasional inhabitant of which the passenger was meeting.
In a service organisation, such as Waltham, there is no room for turning people away, making them feel trivial or not offering to help as much as possible. The problem is that there is no real service training except on the job. Many people are warm towards those they know, but exhibit more hostility or suspicion towards those they don't - I've noticed this to be a general human trait, and not one exclusive to ex flying instructors. Given the observations of nondom here, though, it may be that the management at Waltham would find it useful to spend more time on training and motivating their employees to provide consistent good service.

As a yardstick I use the car rental biz. You go to Hertz, Sixt, Europcar etc to rent a motor for the weekend. You go to Waltham, Denham, Elstree, Goodwood etc to rent a motor with wings for a few hours.

The requirement is nearly the same. Good price, good car (plane) good service.

Already, differences are coming to mind. Even the worst airport car rental office is better than many aero club ops rooms. Prices? Cost plus or what the market will stand?

Good service? Hhmmm. I'll leave that for you, dear reader, to reflect on.

I'm not even going to duck!

Sir George Cayley

Blimey some folk take themselves too seriously. The shoulder boards thing is merely banter.

nondom, your remarks are rather scathing. There always has been a reasonable turn over of staff at EGLM. The senior managers are usually the only ones to stay for any length of time. When asked most ex-donglers (ex-ground crew to the uninitiated) look back fondly on their time at Waltham. Pay isn't great for sure, but most reflect on the experiences enjoyed. The turn over of staff also means there are a few new faces to get to know every so often. It's a good apprenticeship!!

I don't think you can compare the VIP facilities at EGLM to the likes of Biggin or Luton, totally different airfields. Waltham is all-grass with a lovely atmosphere.

It seems you have to point out the bleedin' obvious to folk sometimes... Grief!!

Pompus flying clubs
 

We dont have all that B... S....t down here in Cornwall you can :- Fly Drive Walk Bike Swim Crawl and Parachute into most of our places and at Perranporth there will always be a mixture of most of those at any one time with great food and spectacular scenery.
It amazes me how aviation in this country shoots itself in the foot when it comes to hospitality to those with a common interest.
There should be more places like "Dillows" at Biggin remember that !!!!
Old Sarum is OK.

Pompus?? I assume you mean pompous!

Clearly I have never met you at Waltham!!! I set off from Waltham to Perranporth once. Got halfway there and couldn't be arsed, went to Sandown instead. Really wasn't that desperate for a pastie. That's the good thing about Waltham, it's close to where I live. The food is good and the banter... Well, c'mon guys I'm still waiting!!!

Dillows? You're having a laugh aren't you??

Now, then - let's be accurate.

It wasn't a case of you not being arsed, it was a case of you being in the Cub, and geological processes.

The Cub took so long to get from Waltham to Perranporth (induced drag being a massive factor), continental drift had moved Sandown to where Perranporth had been when you started out.

Yeah Ok, we tech stopped at Compton Abbas!!

I remember TheGorilla and I taking an hour to fly round the back of Reading in the Cub once. We were probably lucky to get airborne at all....

I am a member of a club with 600+ flying members. We have a fenced area by the clubhouse with tables, benches and a climbing frame and swings for the kids. We actively encourage casual visitors be they spotters or familys with kids. The restaurant and bar are not self supporting without income from these guests. members are actively encouraged to speak to visitors and make them welcome, explaining how the airfield operates. As a result we have a steady trickle of new members.

We are very busy during the summer. Up to 200 movements per hour

There is discussion among members about if we a club or a business since we turn over several million pounds a year

Although we have a a large tarmac runway we fly mainly off the grass.

You have probably guessed I am talking about Lasham Gliding Society

Pompus? not **** likely
 

TheGorilla says :There always has been a reasonable turn over of staff at EGLM. The senior managers are usually the only ones to stay for any length of time.

one of them called me a ****ing Pittsbarstuard earlier this year

I hadn't done anything apart from point out his apalling lack of airmanship

what a refreshing attitude
this sort of banter is homely and shows that people here at WW are full of enthusiasm and lack of pompusness and willing to engage members in interesting dialogue


the donglers are, by comparison, extremely well mannered

Perranporth for a P......
 

A Pastie is not available at Perranporth but a Pasty can be arranged by PPO.
There were lots of laughs at Dillows (decades ago) with lots of people and it rated very high on the "banter scale".
Of course if you are in a cub then you always arrive late unless setting off the day before everyone else.
Anyway they are a jolly fine aircraft and one can enjoy a very pleasant picnic lunch whilst clearing the ATZ.
One of the more interesting features of Dillows was the "tea system",whereby the next person through the door was invited to refill the raised cups of those sitting around.If you used the place enough it sort of worked ok and made the place quite unique.
Thats what we need, a "Dillows" franchise in GA to get it back on track.

Shoulder Tags
 

... Further to the great WW shoulder adornments debate - In my experiences the term 'Epauletes' is more closely related to describing the 'padded ornamental decorations' worn upon the shoulders of military and other uniforms - especially upon uniforms of Military Musicians - Whereas the term 'Shoulder Straps' is perhaps more appropropriate in describing the strips of cloth upon shoulders of military and other shirts and uniforms - often displaying badges or rank and or regimental insignia.

...

The Chief Flying Instructor at West London Aero Club kindly lent me one of his collection of David Clarke headsets on Thursday 30th September on condition that I wrote "something nice about" him on pprune.
David Coe is a super guy, with talents almost unsurpassed in singing and instructing, and with a warmth of personality rarely found in the management circles of flying clubs.

(May I have the noise cancelling one next time, please?)

In response to suggestions that I may be nondom, may I firstly deny it, and secondly point out that I am a very fair critic in all areas, and would never comment negatively without pointing out the positive side of things. When the manager of Waltham reaches retirement age in a year or two, he will be able to reflect on achievements unprecedented during my near 20 year's membership at WLAC. He has gained planning permission for a large new hangar and also got it built. He has organized a new runway 29/11, and Waltham is busy now welcoming film crews to use the historic facilities and paying valuable funds to the club's coffers. It is true that he keeps a low profile with club members but it is hardly surprising given how much paperwork he has to deal with.
Contrary to nondom's assertions, the owner's wife DOES have an interest in aviation, as I found out when I first flew her to the Isles of Scilly. Also, she has a quirky sense of humour, which some may interpret as rude. The good thing is, though, she can take a joke.

Ahhh... A true Waltham Bar pilot... On transmit only! :}:ok: