Three weeks ago some oiks came into the club and literally walked out with the club's large widescreen television. This may explain why the management at WW are keen to have someone checking memberships.

Suggest they get somebody to check that people are not walking out with the Club's telly. Goodness there will be so many security guards in the clubhouse there will be no room for Members.

By the way you don't by any chance know where the remote was kept ?? Doh!!

They do get a lot of "spotters" at WW. Unfortunately the club house is not really big enough to accommodate members (and their guests) as well as visitors and spotters. I think anyone genuinely looking to learn to fly, or to join the club would be welcomed with open arms, whereas spotters and oiks should be kept out. Why should members, who pay a lot of money each year, not be able to get in the clubhouse at weekends?

It did go through a phase a few years ago where you couldn't move at the weekends, there were kids and dogs everywhere. Members of WW like flying, and like the old fashioned "club" atmosphere. Most of them don't want it to become open to all - look what happened to The Red Baron over at Booker!!

As a previous member of the club (who will shortly) be rejoining... On parking up and walking past the the clubhouse. I got challenged about membership by lady with clipboard on more than one occasion. Perhaps I didn't have my flight bag with me on that day?? However hey ho, water off a ducks back and all that.

I'll echo what others have said -friendly club, nice atmosphere...

Some years ago I went there with a friend who is a training captain of Iceland Air. At the bar I was asked if I am a member, when answered with a 'no' I was told that i will not be served. Never went again.

I was thinking of visiting (by air) tomorrow. This thread isn't the best of sales pitches for the place...

Sounds like if you fly in you will be very welcome. Just do not try to arrive by Ford Focus.

:suspect:

Not necessarily so, at least in my experience. The owner of the aircraft I fly has told me never to take him there again; not that I would choose to go there again.

I'd be interested in hearing the owner's reasons in that case.

Your opinions however, as the hired help, have no merit - you are simply someone else's bitch in that respect.

Unless, of course, you're bitter about the clubhouse Epaulette policy, and the ramifications thereof.

Eharding, why should I tell you the reasons? They were discussed with the relevant person at the time; we won't be going back.

I have no idea what you mean by the clubhouse epaulettes policy.

As for my opinions having no merit - an arrogant thing to say and who are you to say that?

Unless you are a commercial operator operating into WW, epaulettes in the clubhouse require you to buy a round for anyone in the bar (or within earshot) at the time. Many an airline driver has found out to his cost.;)

Hi-viz jackets tend to generate a few comments as well. :}

I think what eharding meant was that if you are operating for someone else in a commercial capacity, you go where you're told, whether you like it or not.

Perhaps a possible answer if WW (and any other similar club) wants to keep itself as a pure flying club rather than as a public facility is to simply say that visiting pilots and their passengers are welcome to use the facilities. Most of those would obviously be visiting by air but I doubt if the number of pilots turning up by road would be a problem. If it were then a caveat that pilots using the club regularly when not flying in should take out social membership would seem not unreasonable.

When I do visit WW it normally is by air but I have occasionally dropped in there for lunch when I've happened to be in the area and as I'm a member of another flying club- where our aircraft is based- haven't felt that I was abusing the club's hospitality.

Which is incorrect, in any case. But I don't think that's what he/she meant.

There is no such thing as bad publicity only publicity. I hope you will be made very welcome.:ok:

No, HF - as ever - was bang on in his analysis.

Well, you might have had a point, but you blew yourself out of the water with this:

So, in summary: you feel free to post negative comments about the place, but aren't prepared to give any background or rationale for doing so. Paint me arrogant, if you will, but I'll admit I can only aspire to the level of condescension you've managed to attain here.

On that basis, I'd assume you (and/or your owner) upset someone, and were cordially invited to sling your (and/or your owner's) hook(s).

The fact that you haven't returned is presumably a mutually agreeable arrangement. Long may it remain so.

As I said previously, on both my visits I was made very welcome at WW. On my first visit there, purely as a matter of courtesy and from a fire safety point of view, I took myself to reception to let them know I was there to see "Fred" after which I purchased a cup of coffee to drink whilst I was waiting for him to appear. On the second occasion one of the two friends I was meeting there happened to arrive at the same time as myself.
I am not as fortunate as many of you as I do not have the financial resources to be able to do a lot of flying so many of my meetings with friends are, of necessity, made by road. I don't know what most of you feel about the standard of catering in roadside service stations but I feel it is overpriced to put it mildly. I would far sooner be able to drop in to an airfield I might be passing and eat there in the knowledge that I may have made some tiny contribution to funds which may help keep that particular airfield open for us to enjoy flying to. I do understand WW's concerns about having people who are unknown to them simply wandering about the place, perhaps production of pilot's licence and some form of photo identity might be an idea for anyone not arriving by air.

eharding, your vitriol filled replies are a very good example of why a flying club might make itself unpopular with visitors so I sincerely hope you speak in no official capacity.

I'm glad to hear that other visitors have more pleasant memories of their visits but I'm entitled to post here just as much as they are.

Btw, I repeat, you are wrong about who makes the decisions about where we land. I chose WW as a convenient place to take him on the day but he told me in no uncertain terms he doesn't wish to go again. My "negative comment" was a fact. If you would care to read it again you might see it was the owner/passenger who was disgruntled, rather than me. If he's unhappy (this was an understatement), then obviously he won't go there again.

However, you immediately make this a personal issue. If you consider any pilot making a living out of flying as a "hired bitch", that says more about you than me. Perhaps some members at WW have a tinge of inherent resentment about professional aircrew visitors, especially in view of your quoted bizarre "clubhouse epaulettes policy". Where is that stated in the AIP?

White waltham's club house is precisely that - a club for the use of members which is also available to visiting pilots. The procedure for visiting non-members who have not flown in is very straightforward, you need to be signed in by a member to use the clubhouse; if you go and have a chat with the CFI or the Airfield manager, I'm sure they will be happy to oblige, if they are not too busy and the club-room is not already full.

However, there is no obligation upon them to do this as this is a PRIVATE MEMBERS CLUB.

In terms of epaulettes, I'm afraid you have grasped the wrong end of the stick, here. About a 1/3rd of the pilots based at WW seem to be involved in commercial aviation, in one form or another; the club rule is that if anyone (including the based members) turns up in full regalia, they have to buy a round of drinks. This is a policy designed to firstly to prevent a commercial pilots club-within-a-club atmosphere developing, and to prevent the sky-god-jet-jockeys from getting a bit too self important....:}

I have no "side" in any of this, but I will post a few comments about my experiences of clubs.

I'm a member of a private members club in London that doesn't allow anyone in, unless they are members or are accompanied by members.

If the guest turns up early, then they are allowed into one of the bars specifically set aside for this purpose, however they aren't allowed free reign. The system works quite well, but the place is very fussy with what to me are silly rules on dress etc. Ties and suits are a must, which for someone of my age and scruffiness is a complete pain in the backside. So that puts me off it sometimes. Despite the thousands of pounds a year in membership fees. I've never felt completely comfortable and if it wasn't for the facilities and location, I wouldn;t bother with it.

I also frequent Yacht clubs and sailing clubs when the mood to get wet and spend large sums of money for no apparent reason takes me. As mentioned before, most run a system where you can have affiliate membership if you are a member elsewhere, in the same way that many golf clubs do.
That usually works well. There is some control over who comes in, but people are made welcome and there is rarely bad feeling.

Some private clubs can be daunting and intimidating to some and that is much to the detriment of them. Whilst I'm sure WW is a fantastic club (actually I know it to be) there does seem to be a few "points of learning" that could be taken from this thread.

I wouldn't ever suggest that the doors should be simply flung wide for all and sundry to descend, but where is the prolem in allowing other aviators in for a drink? How they arrive is irrelevant and very arbitrary.

I turn up at airfields on the bike or in the car far more often than I do in an aircraft and given my current lack of medical, visiting by aircraft isn't always an option for everyone. Putting someone like me off joining just because of the mode of transport you use to visit initially is a bit daft to be honest.

Any club lives and dies on it's membership and whilst somewhere that has a very strong but cliquey core is fine for a while, it is often not good for the long term as new blood isn't made as welcome or attracted as it could be.

This is very hard to see when you are in the middle of it and I'll bet people would be horrified to think that this is the case.

WW is one of the best aviation clubs in the country, IF you are a member, but I get a feeling from this and from other comments over the years that the welcome to visitors could be a teeny weeny bit better than it currently is.

It's not a major problem, but clubs must be very careful to avoid becoming seen as a cliquey "old buffers" only establisment, where unless you are part of a certain "group", then you are a second class citizen. I'm not saying that WLAC is like that, but it should always be in the forefront of committee members minds when they are thinking about the long term health of the club.

Everyone should be made to feel welcome, members, guests, families etc. If that isn't happening, then instead of having a row about it, find out why and try and make sure it doesn't happen again.

Ed, mate, you're better than that. Having a go at someone for being "hired help" is a bit OTT.

Hmm....maybe the use of the term "bitch" might have been a tad on the strong side.

However, after all this, you still haven't actually told us what the problem was, which isn't particularly helpful.

AC - DC post #46..... I happen to be interested in old Pinball tables.....let's say you share the interest........
I'd give you short shrift if you wandered into my lounge with a major pintable dealer, made yourselves comfortable and asked me to put the kettle on :}

OTOH. had I put a note on the" pinball gazette "........."fellow enthusiasts welcome to come and view my machine" Then you'd rightly expect to be welcomed......but the Brew's still a courtesy extended by me, not a right for you to demand.

SAS has summed it up well, except I'd say that if your face fits, you just become another one of the "clique "......which is, essentially, what a club is........a group of like-minded individuals pooling resources for their common good.


Note also, Drambuster has said he'll put some suggestions to the WW Committee , to address the percieved unfriendliness to land-bound visitors.

Clubs should never be about a single group of people. Whilst the overriding love of flying binds most clubs together, there are usually certain people who are friendlier with some rather than all.

Any decent sized club will have different groups of people, you might all rub along nicely, but that doesn't mean you are all bestest buddies.

Whilst bad behaviour is unacceptable, having to "prove" yourself and "make your face fit" is often the problem with most clubs. That shouldn't be an issue. As a member, you shouldn't have to gain acceptance from any "clique".

This is entirely the problem at many sailing clubs and other similar organisations. The "clique" believe they are the club and then ride roughshod over other members who might not be as vocal or long standing. When in reality ALL members should have the same standing. They all pay the same fees, therefore should attract the same rights.

"Cliqueyness" is unacceptable, but it needs someone very tough to stand up to it and most of the time, people just leave and avoid it. Which is of no benefit to the club nor the individual.

It's amazing how many clubs resemble playgrounds with sniggering groups in each corner, laughing at the "new kid" or anyone who doesn't conform. WLAC isn't like that, that's just a general comment that is mainly aimed at yacht clubs rather than flying.

I visit White Waltham by air fairly frequently. I have NEVER been treated with anything less than courtesy. The landing fee is pretty reasonable by modern standards.

The clubhouse (ex-ATA HQ) is exactly what a flying club bar and restaurant should be. If I lived in the vicinity, I would love to become a member because the WLAC is a dying breed.

They are a proper club and long may it last. Don't even consider letting the public in.

As I have already suggested, if the gentleman that started this thread had explained that he was unable to fly in that day because of the weather and had offered to pay the landing fee anyway, he would probably have been allowed in free of charge.

Kerdunker

thanks for starting this thread. It has started people talking about the good and bad of the club. I am not speaking in any formal capacity whatsoever, but I am known to occasionally work part time there.

The thread has started discussions about how we can be more approachable as a club, yet still keeping the atmosphere which surrounds the historic club. Our CFI is very proactive and keen to show the facilities as discussed by a previous poster.

Mistakes are made and I am most dissapointed for your son. Drop me a PM and bring your son down as my guest. We can show him round the hangers and give you and him lunch. I also freqently observe the club from 09L approach, and hope your expierience will be in the minority as the club is a great place.

Shy Tourqe come back again, you never know you might get a nice visit. Unpleasantness is observed so rarely at the club, I am sure you will probably enjoy it (unless you were the one who nicked our widescreen :E)

EdHarding. I prefer the term Aerial prostitute to "hired bitch" but hey will reply to both.

18 greens. I have never heard that comment in 19 years at the club. It must be rollox because they let me fly there:ok:

rans6andrew. Brimpton, is a much better base for microlights. I am also a member at Brimpton, but the ripples on the millpond there is turning into a perfect storm !!!

Regards to all

Wide

Best you speak to my employer then.:hmm:

Certainly - which "kennels" does he run? ;)

The big one about ten miles from White Waltham.:}

Perhaps it's time to get a more secure but smaller kennel?

Wide suggested "Brimpton is a much better base for microlights?", Not necessarily, it is not the most convenient place if you live at Ruscombe. And what is it about "microlights"?, would you make the same comment about GA? Both are "aircraft", no need to discriminate.

Maybe see you at the bun fight tonight?

Rans6

Plenty of aerial whores around. Many are too cheap for their own good. I won't ask ShyTorque who his pimp is, but only suggest that ShyTorque takes the time to visit WW on his own accord and formulate his own opinion. Talk to a few locals and have a look round.

Don't be influenced by the rich git pulling your puppet strings.

If you read his posts, you'll find it was his decision to go to WW.

Why should anyone give any airfield (or any supplier of services) a second chance?

White Waltham needs to decide whether it is a private club or a business 'cos it can't be both obviously.

Cheers

Whirls

Fine, more items on the specials board for the rest of us! :)

Bob who? :E

hugs

x
x
x
f

Hmmm, timely thread...
I am staying down in Maidenhead/Windsor early next week and was thinking that I might pop into WW for a drink to take in the atmosphere with my family before heading for home on Tuesday, but it seems I won't be made as welcome as I have been everywhere else that I have done similar?

If it is a choice between having a quick snack in a roadside Cafe or seeking out a local Airfield/club to put some much-needed cash over the bar I normally choose the latter if feasible.

Wessex Boy, please bear in mind that the problems I experienced were operational issues and as I mentioned, not to do with the clubhouse. You will hopefully be made welcome as a visitor, especially if certain "members" aren't present.

I've dropped into WW or Hogwaltham as its affectionately known. It is a members club and has exactly that feel about it. They do have the right to make it a bit exclusive, they have all paid membership fees and expect something for it ie a seat at the bar and a short wait for food. If casual visitors have been offended by not being welcomed with open arms then they should bear this in mind, but I'm sure a little bit of pre-arrangement would work wonders. It exactly because it is a nice place that they have to be a bit aggressive about chasing away strangers, otherwise it would be swamped.

It has a Clarksonesque attitude to things like C150 drivers wearing epaulettes, hence the round of drinks rule (and yes its not in the AIP!!!)

Wessex boy, I'm sure you'll be welcome...and just to make sure then why not ask if anyone on this forum would invite you as their guest. If anyone from WW is still reading this, WB is a good lad, he loves aeros and has been known to buy people drinks... so let him in.

Ed is actually a lovely chap; he just gets a bit aggressive when hungry and at the top of avalanches.

ZA

ZA, we certainly were not in a C150; I last flew one of those in 1973.
My PPR was accepted, so what extra notice is normally expected to land, drop a passenger and buy some fuel whilst waiting for his return? :hmm:

No idea, unless you tell us what went wrong. You weren't wearing epaulettes were you?!!!

I dropped in, refuelled, had a nice breakfast, chatted with a few of the folk, read their newspaper and went on my way. Couldn't have been nicer.

ZA

I find this whole thread quite amazing. If I was a member of the WLAC and had paid good money for my subscription, then you have to understand that I have joined WLAC because I like what I see and like the fellow aviators that I meet and want to keep it like that.

I have not forked out my dosh to join a CLUB that suddenly allows every man and his dog (sorry dogs) to come traipsing into MY club with squalling brats etc etc and with no interest whatsoever in aviation and then exit stage left with the club's flat screen TV in their pockets.

I have always enjoyed flying into White Waltham and have always been made welcome.

As I said earlier, if you want to arrive by road, then offer to pay the landing fee that you would have paid anyway. If that is not acceptable to you then either apply to join the club or else b*gger off to the nearest McDonalds.

It really is very simple.

I was wearing epaulettes, but to no consequence. I fly for a living, have done so for 32 years now; it's my present company uniform and I was on duty. No-one objected or even mentioned it. If they had, as a paying visitor I would have told them where to stick the club's unwritten rules, as any reasonable person would, especially in the circumstances.

I repeat again - the issue on the day was that my passenger strongly objected to the way he was treated on arrival. He didn't go to use the club or its facilities (nor did I), merely to get to a further destination.

Edit: I didn't steal the telly and I didn't bring any children along. :ugh: