Is that libellous GT???

Tempted to set TJ on to you for that. If he's still standing, that is!!

;)

Hampshire Hog,

At East Midlands, we do around 4 to 6 circuits in a normal lesson -much depends on incoming commercial traffic. Today, we did 6, and that included several orbits for that reason. I have to say, I thoroughly enjoy having to mix in with the BMI Baby's, Easyjets, Britannia's, Ryanair's etc, and dealing with the very professional ATC guys is a great buzz too. I must say they are very helpful to the students under their control! The downside is having a planeload of passengers watching me land in a crosswind as they are held for my touch and go!!

I had two lessons this week, and both were subject to strong crosswinds, and a lot of turbulance. Sadly, that canned my first solo which was due on one of them. I have now been booked in for Saturday, when the weather looks much calmer, with a view to carrying out this momentous occasion (momentous for the right reasons I trust!!). I was rather hoping that I would get no advance warning, and be simply sent on my way, but I have to say I am really looking forward to it, though I shall be sh****ng bricks beforehand, no doubt, so wish me luck. It should happen as long as I don't screw up on the first two or three with the instructor on board.

Best wishes to everyone....

Ch. Flag,

Best of luck for that solo. Try to relax though. It makes a big difference to your flying.

I quite look forward to the opportunity of going somewhere and mixing with the grown-ups! Wycombe is a very busy GA airfield though. We have two fixed wing schools, a lot of training and other helicopter operations and a gliding club, all operating at the same time. Fortunately, our ATC team all bring experience from Heathrow, Gatwick or the London terminal control and are really very good. If we can't get a word in to tell the tower we're on final, they'll usually call us with the relevant clearance.

HH

Best of luck Chequeredflag - be sure to post a post-mission review afterwards :ok:

V1R

I DON'T BELIEVE IT!!

Well SHMBO ("she who must be obeyed") always says I get more like Victor Meldrew every day, but with todays weather, I'm not surprised. My solo was canned last week 'cos there was too much wind, and canned again today 'cos there was too little, (that is, too little to blow away the fog that's been afflicting East Mids airport all day). The METAR has steadfastly been stuck on 2000 metres BR since 07.00, and so that's it for another week.

This country can be so frustrating - I bet when I'm there next Weds/Thurs, we'll have strong winds again!!

Now, about that 3 week course to achieve PPL in Florida...........

I know the feeling Chequeredflag. I was supposed to do my QXC today out of liverpool, but the vis is terrible. I have been trying to do this flight since August!ARGH!
Still I will try again tommorow... i will get this PPL, oh yes i will...

Can't let this drop off the from page... bump!

C'mon Lee, surely they have internet access in Malta, wanna see a post up on your Jollies out there.

I finally did my first heli solo last Friday afternoon. Very weird experience!

I had just finished a couple of dual circuits when my instructor asked me to land. After landing he started talking about how different the Robi flys with only one person in it. Then he got out . . . :uhoh:

Before he disconnected his headset to leave, he spoke to ATC, wished me well and left me too it :ok:

The circuit wasn't the best I've flown, but I was suprised at how relaxed I was - I was expecting to be nervous and very tense (not a good combination for hovering!) but I was so relaxed everything felt perfect - even my hovering felt easier than normal.

Needless to say I was a very excited bunny afterwards.

The lesson the next day was a very different story though - for some reason I just couldn't get anything right. But that's the way it goes - good days and bad days . . .


Solouk

Solouk,

Many,many congrats on your solo - it's interesting that you felt so relaxed. I can't help but feel that you can be under less pressure when on your own - I find it sometimes difficult in the circuits to both listen to the "boss", and carry out all the checks, maintain correct height/speed/heading, talk to ATC etc etc etc and try to take in what he's telling me at the same time, leading me to forget things (like carb heat - another bruise on the right arm!!)

I am still awaiting my first solo. It was supposed to have happened last Tuesday - too windy, then Wednesday, too windy also. I was pretty confident it would be last Saturday, but the large anti-cyclone that brought the quiet weather, also brought a load of fog which persisted at EMA all day.

However, I arrived today, and the weather was perfect, good viz, pretty high cloud and a crosswind of around 6/8 knots. Great ,I thought, perhaps I'll finally get to go on my own. NO!! A bloomin' Thomson 757 had booked into the circuits, and we were prevented from doing the necessary 'roundy' bits.

Instead, we brushed up on stalling, with/without flap, and stalling in the turn. Also practised PFL from 4000'. I've never done this from this height, (he usually shuts the throttle at 300' just after take off). What surprised me was that from that height, just how much time there is to try to sort out why the thing failed, and also to choose a suitable landing site. That all went well.

Attempting to Zone in the EMA controlled space again, we were held in orbit for around 15 minutes, whilst all the commercial stuff (and that damned 757) filed it's way in. In spite of EM being a busy commercial airport, I've never had to hold for so long in the 21 lessons I've had from there so far. Still, a small price to pay for living with the "big boys" - I love it!

So, having now put my first solo out of my mind, I'll wait to be surprised - at least that way I'll not get too wound up beforehand. It is such a milestone however, I somehow feel I'll not progress until it's behind me........

Best of luck all,

Mike N

PS - we chartered a Jetstream 31 to take some guests to mid France on Mon/Tues of this week, and it was interesting to visit the guys up front. It was good to see the First Officer really screw up the landing back at luton - we knew we'd arrived there, but wern't sure whether we'd actually landed or crashed!! It was a real beauty - I could see him in action, and he simply failed to flare, and flew it really heavily onto the unyeilding tarmac - how the thing did not break something I'll never know as we bounced down the runway.

Made me feel really good did that!!

PPS I'm back tomorrow, but rain is forecast, so the base and viz may be against me.

Chq'd Flag - Your experiences seem to be mirroring mine. I was waiting to go solo for what seemed like an age and the wx doesn't ever seem to be favourable.

Unfortunately I've not been back in the skies since my solo on 27th Feb due to wx and I'm away over Easter so no flying until at least April.

It does concern me somewhat that I've only managed 2 hours in the past 2 months. How much of what I've experienced will go out of the window and will have to be re-validated?

Learning at EMA seems as much fun as LBA - having to juggle your learning while ensuring that you aren't getting too much in the way of the big commercial traffic. I was once asked to orbit and was doing this fine until I noticed that the wind was blowing us towards the approach path! Sometimes it is very useful to have an instructor on board ;-)

MyData. I'm sure, rather like driving a car, or indeed riding a bike, you will not forget too much. Of course there's a lot more to flying than riding a bike, but I'm sure after a couple of minutes you will be totally back in the groove.

Best of luck...

Pruners - firstly, apologies for not posting whilst abroad getting burned in the heat, it was an immensely packed week - lots going on and trying to cram everything in just 6 days!

Upon return I was chuffed to see my diary still on page 1, so thank you to you all for posting ;) I am going to keep you all waiting until tomorrow for the full Sicily writeup I'm afraid - I have some unreal pictures and lots to tell, so stay tuned! :E

Cheq - I was exactly the same, hang in there and it will happen before you know it :ok:

Cheers all,

Lee

Hi All,

I had two lessons booked this week - one on Monday, when I managed to fly, and one on Tuesday where our lovely British weather intervened once again!

Spent Monday doing crosswind and flapless approaches with a different instructor from my usual - this one was an ex 757/767 captain and liked to take the dual crewed approach to checklists etc. That was quite fun, but I caught him out when he flew a circuit - on the downwind checks he touched the carb heat but didn't actually put it on! Lesson, no matter who you're flying with - always question any potential safety issue (diplomatically!)

Then some solo circuits, but it was beginning to get a bit gusty and I decided it was time to land. Delighted to be told on final to go-around (runway occupied), when I'd really had enough and wanted to get back on the ground!

Ch. Flag, your trip sounds fun - I wish I was in a business with that kind of opportunity! I've sat in the back of many an airliner watching the approach carefully and often thinking after landing "That felt like one of mine!". However, my usual instructor, an ex 747 captain, tells me that on some airliners they are trained to make a firm landing, rather than a gentle one - especially in poor weather. I was in the front of a 737 into LHR once, where the landing was so firm some of the lockers flew open. It was quite breazy and as we taxied reciprocal to the runway the captain commented to me "The great thing about heading this way is I can watch everyone else screw up their landings as well!" Anyway, I'm sure you'll get that solo soon - I remember well how frustrating it can be waiting!

My Data, don't worry too much about the gap between lessons. I didn't fly for nearly 2 1/2 months, but getting back into it only took a few minutes. Maybe you can keep up your cockpit scan rate on MS flight Sim, that helps.

Maz, can't wait to read about your trip!

HH

HH.

Reference some airliners landing, agreed, BUT this was something else I promise you!! Runway was dry, with a slight crosswind only. No, I think on this ocassion he really bombed it!! For some reason he flew it manually on the way back and frankly his style was very erratic - not a smooth flyer at all. I think he was training, and before engine start up for the return from Nevers it was very quiet on board - you could easily hear them going through the checklists. We heard the Captain say something along the lines of

"Well, if you're not going to do it properly, I'll just have to do it myself", wherupon the !st officer retorted "OK, but a proper demonstration might help!!"

Oh dear, not a great start to the return flight, and one of our guests shouted out "Will you two stop arguing and get on with flying the plane!!" It was all a bit tense in the passenger cabin. One or two even retorted that it would be preferable if I flew it, and I've not even gone solo yet!!!! They were however relatively cheap for a two day charter of a 19 seat turbo prop.....

PS - on the way out, the captain touched down beautifully on a pretty short runway - Nevers in the Loire Vally - real text book stuff

Ch. Flag

I think I'd have got out upon hearing the conversation you describe!

I like the comment that 'maybe you should fly it' though. Can't persuade any colleagues they should fly with me! In fact, a lot of members at my flying club are professional airline pilots and yet many of their wives won't fly with them!

HH

(PS, I mean many a member's wife, not to suggest that our members have many wives, although what went on 'down the route in years gone by!)

I've done it!!!
 

Finally, today, I went solo for the first time. It was just brilliant, capped off with the BEST landing I've ever done - amazing that......

I'm really chuffed with myself, and there's quite a lot to tell, but as we are late leaving for our Easter break on the boat, I must dash. Will fill you in with all the details on Monday. Now, how can I get rid of the smile on my face?? Probably this evening's journey to Southampton will do the trick....!

Cheers all

Mike N

woot! May I be the first on here to say congrats :ok:

And may I be the first to congratulate your instructor who clearly timed your first solo to perfection!

My landing on my first solo scared me that much I thought I snapped the nose leg off!:)

Brilliant! :D Well done mate - it was your best landing because you were concentrating harder than you ever have done before!

Enjoy the buzz, it doesn't wear off :cool:

Chq'd Flag

Congratulations! Fantastic news! My first solo landing was also by far my best landing to date.

Let's hope the weather over the spring and summer is good and we both progress well over the coming months.

I managed to get a late booking for a 0900hrs slot this morning - Leeds/Bradford had its own rain cloud and the lesson was rained off. Less then 3 miles away in Bradford the roads were dry :-(

Malta & Sicily
 

Right then, where do I start? :p

I had been given all the technical specification for the Tecnam aircraft before I went away, as this is what I would be flying - so I swatted up beforehand. However, on the day, I receive a call from my cousin (CFI) who says they are away in Sicily for maintenance, as there is a problem with the flaps. So I was beginning to think that the flying would be cancelled, however, we managed to obtain a Cessna 152 from an extremely nice guy, who also happened to be a controller on the tower frequency at Luqa Malta (LMML) - so he rented that to us for 3 hours. I very much doubt he is reading this, but just in case, Thanks! :ok:

When we arrived at the flying school, I was nothing but amazed. Nothing like I had ever seen before (saying that, I have only seen a couple here). It is called Falcon Alliance Aviation, and it looks awesome inside. Very big and full of aviation articles, even a spitfire engine in reception, it was immaculate with large teaching rooms and cockpit instruments all over the place to aid teaching. Very impressive indeed. Upon first glance at the c152 I was amazed to see how clean and well maintained it was, not even a scratch! The first problem I came across was having to crouch down quite a bit on the walk around - I am about 6ft 2 so I didn't stay under the wing for too long. The apron was massive - I am used to a simple tarmac area, with a free for all parking style, whereas here, there are parking bays and designated areas etc. I don't want to sound like I am being biased or comparing everything, Luqa is the only airport in Malta, and it is understandably huge and detailed - I am not having a moan about the UK :D Take a look at the pictures in the link below, there are some of the apron as well as Sicily/Malta etc.

We went through the start-up checks as normal, they are very similar to what I am used to, apart from the fuel selection, i.e. there is non, just on and off. The parking brake seemed strange, press the brakes, pull the lever and release the brakes – they are locked. What I did like about the c152 was the spring loaded front wheel steering – very smooth indeed and you only need feather weight in order for them to move. The only problem with these was that in order to turn, you have to start a little early and use a touch of brake to get the turn going – very easy though, much preferred to fixed wheel steering. I called up for permission to start the engine, telling the tower we were on VFR to Sicily – before I knew it we were rolling for takeoff. The throttle seemed strange also, having to push it in to increase RPM and vice versa – during the flight later on, I was doing the opposite by mistake! What I noticed about this aircraft was that it seemed very reluctant to get off the ground. Most of the manoeuvring speeds were around 5-10 knots slower to what I am used to, so we rotated at about 60 knots. In the Tommy, I have trouble keeping it on the ground, using forward pressure until 65 knots is reached (this isn’t due to incorrect trimming) and upon releasing the forward pressure, if your not too careful it leaps off the ground, however, in the c152, the nose seemed to crawl, and when it came up, it was a couple of seconds before the aircraft came off the ground – it felt like a stall and that it was struggling, but this wasn’t the case. One thing I did notice during climb out was the amazing angle of climb, however, I think this was due to the fact that it is a high wing, and seems more noticeable compared to a low wing. we climbed to flight level 55 and settled down. The wind was zero and the air was still – I could not get over how easy the Cessna is to fly, it was very responsive and, the rudder was awesome, the slightest touch and the nose whizzes left and right – probably the spring loading coming into play again – it was great. There was absolutely no turbulence at all – I could have flown it all the way to Sicily without touching the yoke, it trimmed beautifully and was very well behaved. The one thing I found most difficult at first was the RT – not the words used/dialect but the accent and the muffling over the earpiece. I am very much used to the accent, having Maltese blood in me, but I didn’t find the sound too clear, so I had a little trouble at first. After about an hour or so it wasn’t a problem, I was talking to Sicily radar with not too much difficulty. This was the first time that I had actually crossed an FIR (Flight Information Region). As a student, this is not allowed solo, so anyone studying for the PPL in Malta, gets dropped off in Sicily to do the solo navigation.

Anyway, the flight details were as follows:

Malta (LMML) – Gela (Sicily) – Calta – Licata – Malta

Gela is a southern town on the coast of Sicily, we used the VOR to track the 358 radial, from the VOR station – this was very easy as the weather meant no drift. I found the VOR a pretty straight forward device, in which I learned a cracking acronym (for the lads – sorry ladies):

TITS:

T – Tune
I – Identify
T – Test

The ‘S’ can be anything you like! The test involved turning the OBS (Omnidirectional bearing selector) so that you can see the needle deflect both sides, a TO and FROM flag and the no signal flag. These went well and we tracked it all the way, spot on to Gela. Upon reaching Gela, we did a triangular navigation exercise which involved:

Gela to Calta: 26 nautical miles and 18.5 minutes.
Calta to Licata: 24 nautical miles and 16 minutes.


I couldn’t get over how easy it was to spot the individual towns, this was due to the vast greenery in Sicily and the fact that we were 5,500 feet! Check out the photo link to see what I mean. on the way back, we then tracked the reciprocal heading on the VOR – looking out the window proved nothing, there was haze and not really any horizon due to the longer distance, but using the VOR soon meant that after about 52 minutes, the north coast of Gozo (where the VOR is situated) came into view. We then tracked down the east coast (Malta is split up into quarters, using the centre-line of the runway: north, east, south and west) until we were east abeam the airport, in which we came for a straight in approach. The plan was to do some touch and goes, which proved uneventful and enjoyable. The Tomahawk gives a soft cushioning of air upon touchdown, due to the low wing structure – this wasn’t present in the Cessna so the touchdown came slightly quicker, which meant judging the flare was important. We done 3 or 4 circuits, and this is where I learned a major difference between high and low wing aircraft – you cant see where you are turning in a high wing! Turning base would require a little knowledge of local landmarks, so that the turn can be judged correctly, as you cant see the runway! One thing that was new to me today, was an orbit of the approach. At Liverpool, we only have one runway, so any orbiting must take place on downwind etc, but as we were on runway 24 and the commercial traffic were on runway 32 (I think – see the pictures) we orbited the approach (to rw24) which was interesting.

Overall, an amazing experience, one which I will never forget, and one which I would like to repeat in the near future, without an instructor! Thanks for reading this long post, enjoy the pictures,

Lee :ok:

http://groups.msn.com/PPLFlyingPictures/shoebox.msnw

Lee

It sounds fantastic. It is trips like this that got me thinking seriously about the PPL. I've travelled the world on business and holidays and always look at the GA sites at airfields on arrival at exotic locations. It would be great to hire a PA28 or C172 for a few hours especially in Hawaii where I've visited the islands more than once and had great helicopter trips - it would be amazing to do the same in a a/c under my control....

Apart from what you stated, did you have any issues with using a 'foreign' ATC? Is everything in English and as per the usual protocol that would be expected in the UK? I do a lot of business in Europe and sometimes find it difficult communicating with taxi drivers and business clients. We tend to get by with a mix of English and their language. This is fine for business - my French is pretty good, German, Italian and Spanish is understandable, but Swedish, Slovak and other tongues are a challenge that usually default to poor, common English. And I do know that English *is* the language of the skies, it is also a misconception that it is the language of business, but my on the ground experience makes me worry that I might not be understood during a critical air manouvre.

I appreciate that there are flights all over the world going on 24/7 over non-English speaking countries and so something must work. I'm just interested to hear first hand how it does work.

Did you have any additional pre-flight checks for going over water? What additional equipment did you take?

Also good to know you are a 6'2" guy. If we ever get to meet at Liverpool for a flight together I'll know to look for the tall guy ;-)

MyData

Mazzy, sounds like you had fun! You said: My guess would be that the performance had more to do with density altitude: what was the ambient temperature at the time? Light aircraft really do perform MUCH worse as the temperature rises, something which can often go unnoticed here in Blighty!

Andy

MyData

Good questions - At first the RT was daunting, but mostly due to the fuzziness of the sound. The accent was understandably Maltese, however, all the dialect and language was fluent English - it only took an hour or so to get used to it, but like I say, I have an advantage having Malta in my blood - in summary I don't think anyone else would have a problem - usual downwind calling:

"AES - Downwind to land"
"AES - report final"

Etc. The only time I noticed a different language being used was over Sicily - a couple of people were communicating in Italian, but I guess this was not radar information, and merely a conversation that would not affect anyone else. One thing we did hear was a pilot from the local USAF base there in Sicily - he too had difficulty understanding the controller (even if he is based there?) and he basically said:

"err, having difficulty understanding you here, we are [location], [information], [intentions] etc" - Much more relaxed, as I have read to believe the American RT is???? (I don't know!) :=

Apparently, there are a lot of G registered aircraft that enter Malta, so the controllers are used to it. The airspace is not complex, just split up into four sections, and before you know it, you are leaving the FIR. Hope that has answered any questions you had Data :ok: :ok:

Andy - ah yes, I had not thought of this. Due to the high temperature, the air was less dense, and held more moisture, thus reducing the performance. This was first hand experience for me (as I am sure us Brits are not used to such temperatures) :{ It still flew beautifully though in the cruise, due to the smooth, still air :cool:

Happy Easter everyone - I got no eggs this time :{

Great trip
 

Mazzy,

What a fabulous trip, and a great read. I promised to post on here today about my first solo, but it rather pales into insignificance after your adventures!!

Nevertheless, I'll briefly tell you all the score. Having had the solo cancelled on three different occasions, I was getting rather spooked about it, and arrived last Thursday not expecting much, due to a stiff breeze at 90 degrees to the runway. I normally book out with ATC, but this time my instructor said he'd do it, and I heard himj ask to book into the circuits, ".......and if all goes well, I'd like to send a student on his first solo!!" Oh bugger, looks like today then!!

We completed three circuits (all right hand as usual), the first including a PFL at 300' shortly after take off, then a flapless landing on the second, with a "normal" two stage of flap on the third, this time "to land". We taxied back to the school, and after a few words of advice, including "don't crash!!", he stepped out with a cheery "OK off you go......"

Strangely, I was not nervous, I guess I was too busy thinking about the task ahead to be so. I got ATC clearance to taxi to the Sierra 1 holding point, and loaded the new QFE. I went through l the checks and called "ready for departure". The ATC guys were aware that it was my first solo, and did their best to give me a clear run, in amongst the heavy Easter commercial traffic. So, I had to sit there for about 15 minute, waiting for a 757 and two 737's to land or take off, keeping myself busy with checking everything again, popping the odd few seconds of carb heat for good measure!!

Eventually I got the call to line up after the landing 737 had passed, on runway 27. Then I was cleared for take off for a LEFT hand circuit!! Hang on a minute, I've only done about four left hand circuits at EMA before, they are always to the right, but I acknowledged and away I went. No problems, positive climb, 80 kts, 500', clear of the airport boundary, climbing turn, and remembering AT ALL COSTS to avoid Diseworth village (the most anti in the airport vicinity, and strangely the home to various airline pilots!!).

Turning onto the downwind leg, I called "downwind" to ATC, and was asked to call them when ready for left base- now, I know what that means, a blooming hold!! Sure enough, I was duly asked to orbit. Now came the tricky bit, to find somewhere to orbit away from the multitude of villages around me. Eventually I settled over a pleasantly green slot, and round and round I went....and round and round again. ATC called me and apologised for the delay, and assured me he'd get me down asap. "No problem" I replied (I was enjoying myself)

Shortly after I was called onto base leg, and was no 2 to a PA34 which was visual. ATC then asked if I could cut in tight behind the PA34 for a shortish final, which I did. Calling final, and given clearance to land, I was very pleased to carry out the best landing I've EVER done - imperceptable touch down in a 10 kt crosswind! I bet I can't do that again.

I was cleared to taxi back to the school, after holding to allow yet another 737 to taxi past, where my instructor was waiting with outstretched hand. I'd been away for 35 minutes, and I was told that ATC had telephoned the school to say they were holding me in orbit, and not to worry about me!!

It felt great, and a real milestone. Plenty more hard work ahead, but 11 weeks and 4 days after my first lesson, I had finally gone solo in 23 hours.

Cheers all,

Mike N

Dont be daft! Bloody well done, that was a good writeup. I actually felt a bit tense reading it, as it brings back the feeling all too well :D I was the same with the carb heat, as I too had quite a long hold. I kept putting it on for a few seconds - probably a nervous twitch or something! This feeling will stay with you for life so gloat yourself in it :ok:

Well done,

Lee

Well done Ch. Flag, and also well done to Mazzy.

Am I jealous of that trip to Malta, well maybe just a tiny bit!

Fascinating accounts, both.

I'm really glad I didn't have jets to contend with on my first solo, on top of everything else. Don't blame you on the carb heat. I'm almost paranoid about it now. You may remember, the aircraft in front of me on my first solo had its engine fail on the runway, probably due to carb ice. A lesson I've never forgotten.

HH

Hi all! Finally managed to get flying again after 3 (nearly 4)months out!

Thankfully I seem to have remembered everything, although embarrasingly I went through half the power checks with the engine idling :O .

Still, the flying was great. Went over to Bembridge on the Isle of Wight for a few circuits. I've never seen such a small runway before! Tiny compared to SOU but it is suprising how quickly one gets used to the difference in size.

Well, with the refresher done I should be all licened out in the next couple of months all things being equal...:ok:

Good to see people flying - the wx does seem to be improving a little, especially the wind (have I shot myself there?)

I have just booked a lesson in for tomorrow so hopefully it will hold out for then. Funds are looking bad at the moment, got 1.5 months left in uni till I graduate, so I am pretty snowed under too, but not for much longer! After that, it's hopefully full time work where I am now, and more funds! :cool:

I promised at the start of the diary I wouldn't go down those "personal life attributes/problems" so I wont hehe :E

Mazzy, this will possibly attribute to it somewhat but the 152 does seem a bit more reluctant to get off the ground than the Tommy. I just checked out in the 152 as you know and they guy who checked me out said to rotate at 60, I did as he said but didn't leave the ground till about 75, it just didn't wanna go up. He said, next time round, just give it a good yank at 60 and it WILL come off the group, I did and it did.

How did you find the shoulder room, and you thought the Tommy was small!

Great write up, wanna go up in the C152 next weekend? (Hotel Uniform) or fancy a Ravenair Tommy (nicer than the ones you are used to :rolleyes: )? You can teach me how to use them blasted VOR's :uhoh:

Surprising comments on the C152...though, to be fair, I have nothing to compare it to!

With flaps 10, I rotate at about 55 with a very light and short tug on the yoke. I fly out of Leicester (elevation 469ft). Admittedly I'm only at the early stages of the PPL so most of my flying has been done in the colder winter months but the effects of that are probably quite negligible.

It's a bit more ground-gripping on short-field takeoffs - I start encouraging it to lift at about 45 KIAS and it just about gets off the ground a bit above 50 I think...

Sounds like I'll feel spoilt by takeoff performance if I fly anything else...!

V1R :O

Vee One...Rotate
I think I may have over exaggerated with the 'give it a good yank' but you do need to be more forceful than the Tommy. The Tommy 'dances' around at about 60kts desperate to get off the ground but most instructors (that I know) insist you do do rotate till 70kts, almost forcing it to stay down. I rather prefer to let it ease itself up around 60kts but stay in the ground effect till I am nearer 70kts (depending on takeoff configuration), this keeps un-necessary pressure off the nosewheel.

In the 152, I think you are right, a starting point may be to start the rotate 5kts less than required to bring it up gently or just do the 'yank' method I have been doing, just dont yank to hard and bleed your airspeed off and end too clost to the stall.

Maybe me and Mazzy could zip over to Leicester for a meet one day, whadya reckon?

Most definately don't want to stall when you can still pick out individual stones on the ground - reminds me of an amusing flyers' "commandment" I heard once:

"Keep thy airspeed up, lest the earth come from below and smite thee."

V1R :ok:

P.S. Always nice to meet other fledgling flying types - if you're ever at Leicester, you'll have to let me know. There's a nice, well-stocked bar here :O

Cant really add to this, apart from saying that yes, a trip to Leicester would be very good, and a stop off at that bar too :E Look forward to it soon V1 (and anyone else yeah? I will post here when we are going if anyone would like to join us).

I must admit, I have been taught to rotate at 70kts, thus using a lot of pressure to keep the nose down - it definitely wants to come off the ground earlier, especially when flying solo. I am amazed (not doubting you in any way) to hear the the 152 can lift off at 45kts - at 60kts it seemed to stagger, only just getting into the air (this was with zero flaps) :confused:

Can one of you more experienced pruners step in here and help us out?

Lee :ok:

What are the fees at Leicester? I don't have my Pooley's to hand...

I'm not that experienced when it comes to flying these things with non-whirly wings, but I have been flying the C152/150 for...too long. :( I was always taught to rotate at 60 kts, but keep in ground effect until you reach 70 kts, then start to climb. Of course, if you have flaps for a short fiield take-off, it will take off at a lower speed. I would always tend to let the aircraft take off when it wants to anyway, ie don't hold it down, but make sure you stay in ground effect until the speed reaches 70 kts. I suspect, Mazzy, that you were taught to not take-off before 70 kts for safety - beginners aren't always that good at keeping in ground effect. :eek:

Actually, no, even quite small changes in temperature make quite a lot of difference to performance. You'll find out when summer comes - if it ever does.

But to repeat, I'm a helicopter instructor, and only a fairly low hours PPL(A), so don't take any of what I say as gospel.

Actually, you don't want to take what I say about rotary flying as gospel either, but I'm supposed to know about that. :)

mazzy1026 & pponting,

I started to encourage it to lift off at around 45 (short-field) but it would have been above 50 before it actually got anywhere. Still surprising how slow the 152 can sometimes be - think I mentioned (maaaany pages back) that we were in a 40-45 knot headwind whilst landing once - GS of the order of 15-20 knots...the term long final comes to mind ;) Like I said then - good impression of a helicopter we had going on there...!

Leicester Airport:

Leicester Details

Good to see some pruners in these parts sometime in the future.

Whirlybird,

Thanks for the temperature tip - quite amzing the difference a few degrees seems to have. Just for completeness: with flaps 10, I'm taught to rotate at 55, nose down to accelerate to 65 and climb away, flaps in at 300' and then trim for 65 KIAS climb. A friend's currently doing his Air Engineering Technician training in the Royal Navy and will specialise on a Sea King variant. I'll be honest, heloes are pretty alien compared with fixed wing!

Cheers,

V1R

OK, well the majority of my 150 or so hours are on 150/152s (I know, boooooooring! :p ) and I would say that even with the right conditions, 45kts sounds a bit early to rotate for the 152, especially without flap. However, once it gets to 40-45 you've lost the inertia and it's at 55 in the flash of an eye, I generally find. Which sounds like a more sensible speed. Of course, it's all just guidelines really, whether it's a yank or a release to lift off at that speed depends on conditions. I was taught to wait until you feel it wants to. (The 150s I have flown seem to work with Whirly's numbers, but in MPH.)

I instinctively lower the nose slightly to gather momentum as soon a we're well and truly lifted off. This is down to early training and reading 'stick and rudder' from what I can remember, but (obstacle clearance aside) it does go for a more comfortable take off and initial AoC. There has been one occasion when I noticed the weight of the aircraft versus thin air as soon as I lost the ground effect and it's not something I want to repeat! :ooh: (Smurph will back me up here.)

Mazzy, just a thought, your physique is probably not best suited to a 152; perhaps since you were dual you were a bit heavy as well as being hot and high? When you look at weight schedules, you realise that a lot of the time it's a choice between fuel or bags! :) Most blokes at my club choose to switch to 172s before they complete their training for that reason.

Penguina thats possibly the nicest way I think I've ever seen of calling someone fat :O :ok:

Only kiddin maz, we love you really :)

And a quick update of my progres......none. The weather here has been foggy and wet for the past 10 days and it doesn't look to change in the near future :{

:eek: :eek: :eek:

Noooooo! I didn't mean fat! Mazzy's very tall!

Will keep foot in mouth and stop pretending to know what I'm talking about I think.