Mike - we have all had that feeling, and believe me, it does start to fall into place, and all the things that you have learned so far being rolled into 10 minutes, will soon become natural. You wont even think about your radio calls and checks etc, you will just do them. I keep trying to tell myself the same thing regarding nav - but I haven't conviced myself yet :D

But before you get it, you'll reach the worst bit, which is being able to do everything in the circuit asleep and being heartily sick of it all (I recommend bringing a magazine along for the downwind leg at this point!)... except for the last 10 seconds, which you still can't quite get right... :ugh:

But really it's worth it when it finally clicks. Suddenly you feel in control; it's magic.

Thanks guys, I feel encouraged by your comments - what do you think I should read on the downwind leg, my book on Air Law?!!

Meant to say, I felt for a young man yesterday who was in the plane before me. He set off to do his first solo, and had to hold for an MK Air 747 freighter to land, followed by an EasyJet 737. Then he had to wait for two more 737\'s to take off before finally being given take off clearance. He was sat there for around 15/20, no doubt really nerve racking minutes. When he taxied back afterwards he had one huge grin on his face!!

Sounds like my first solo - had to wait ages at the hold point, the things that were going through my mind then ........................... :ugh:

Hi Mazzy - out of interest, hour many hours were you in to your course before you went solo? I did my first circuits in my 9th hour, and I've no idea if that's on, or below average. I've been told that I'll go solo after about 10 hours in the circuits, or 18 hours in total, (as long as I can pass the Air Law exam!). I've no idea if that's good bad or indifferent, and my instructor won't give any clues, other than I'm doing "OK"!! Then again, perhaps there is no average for this sort of thing

Circuits after six hours. first solo after seventeen. About the same as you're being told.

there is no magic number of hours about solo, it is very much 'when you are ready' I started circuits after 3hrs TT and then went solo after 11 hrs, however I am an experienced glider pilot and so alot of it I already knew how to do.

Sounds like your enjoying yourself tho and thats the main thing. As people have said it will all come, if you read through this diary is the evidence! (solo seems so far away now :p

Happy landings!

Yes I will echo what has been said - I really cant remember how many hours I had done without looking at my logbook, but it was about average. I was happy with the progress I was making, but was having a lot of bad luck with the weather. My instructor then told me I should have gone an hour or two earlier, but cos of the weather, they had to be dual - even my first solo was on a misty day with bad visibility, I could only just see the runway!

There was a girl who went first solo on one of the days I was flying, and she had completed 70 hours! For one reason or another she just couldn't get ready - but the thing is, she carried on and I admire her greatly for having such determination.

Your instructor will probably hate the kind of questions like:

"When can I go solo, when can I go solo" because the simple answer is "when you are ready". You will turn up for circuits one day and you wont even know when your gonna go - he should spring it on you (what a wonderfully strange experience that is).

Best of luck, and I am sure when you have done your first solo you will come back in here and tell us all about it!

Lee :ok:

I havn't asked him when I will go solo, and I won't!! I don't think it would help to know in advance!! I was only interested to know what others have achieved, and I've got a rough picture now - many thanks for the answers.

I did ask if I was wasting my money, and he responded "definitely not"....but then he would say that anyway. Generally I'm happy with my progress, though I'm finding the discipline to study for exams difficult. However, I'm plugging away and getting there.

I'll keep you informed.....cheers all

Hi Chequeredflag,

I would really echo what Penguina says above. You will probably feel like you're never going to get there - and fall asleep on the downwind leg - whilst getting really frustrated that you can't quite flare at the right height, in the right direction, consistently.

If you look back through the previous pages, you'll see how frustrated I became whilst my own inexperience, weather and tensions got the better of me.

It took me around 20 hours in total, although about 15 of them were with my current flying school - since March last year. The previous 5 hours were some time ago at a different school.

Above all, don't rush. A friend of mine, who now flies A320s for BA recently told me that, when he was instructing, he found those who went solo later turned into 'better rounded pilots'. Hours to solo is rarely an indication of how long it will take you to complete the ppl and, to be honest, although I was keen to solo earlier, with hindsight I'm glad I had plenty of experience under my belt before I did. It made for a much more relaxing adventure.

Happy flying!

HH

(and wish me luck for the weather tomorrow!)

Hey guys,
Had another flight yesturday, nice smooth day. Was the first of my revision flights and it was good to go over the basics and learn that I've not forgotten as much as I thought. We started with stalls, clean and landing config. Then to steep turns which were good fun as always. PFLs were then on the cards, most of which were fine, altho I missed a couple of fields lol. Was a good day. Hope you all fly soon :ok:

When I did my PPL(A), some instructor said I was near to going solo at around 25 hours. It actually took me..............48!!!!!! :{ :{ :{ A lot of things went wrong for me; long story. And now it seems like a long time ago - well, it IS a long time ago - and very unimportant. I wish there was some way to convince people that it really doesn´t matter, it´s no big deal in the greater scheme of things, and has nothing whatsoever to do with how good or bad a pilot you´ll be.

But I know that none of you will listen to any of that. And I was told it, and I didn´t listen either, just mentally beat myself up for taking so long, for ages. :(

Think about it though... What will you do before you go solo? Fly. What will you do after you go solo? Fly. And after you´ve got your PPL? Ditto.

So enjoy boring holes in the sky and try to stop worrying about it all.

Whirly is the perfect example of the sheer determination to complete. Like I said about the girl at Liverpool. She now instructs, so please, dont worry about how long it takes :cool: :cool:

Just for the record, I instruct on HELICOPTERS. I discovered the delights of whirly wings some time after I got my PPL(A), and just sort of went back for more...and more...and more. I still do some f/w flying, but I have less than 300 hours, don´t get enough practice, and get nervous occasionally at the idea of crosswind landings. Just like most other ordinary PPL(A)s in fact. :)

Hi All,

Well, another lesson cancelled yesterday, due weather. Nice high pressure, but loads of fog this time:{

I took the opportunity to do my Human Factors exam - the easiest yet, but I wondered about the answer to one of the questions. It concerned the time to avoid a collision between a light aircraft and a military jet, closing at a combined 600kts. Now, the calculation for a 3 minute idenfication to point of impact was 20 seconds, but the two possible answers on the paper were 20 seconds and 12 seconds. Note, the question specifically states time 'to avoid a collision'. It seemed to me that the time to 'avoid a collision' would therefore be 12 seconds. 20 would be too late, but the CAA give the correct answer as 20! Am I being pedantic, or do the guys at the CAA have Tom Cruise's reactions?

Anyway, I passed, so just a few more difficult ones to go now.

Hopefully, I'll get one of the 3 lessons I have booked over the next 2 weeks!

HH

It's a fair point Paul. If I was 1 sec from a Tornado in my Warrior, I sincerely doubt either of us could avoid the inevitable, but then we don't work for the CAA.....

Hampshire Hog, I too had one cancelled yesterday - very frustrating, being my second lesson in the circuits. Only 500' cloudbase..

I'm studying furiously for my Air Law exam, and frankly it's doing my head in - bored to death by the subject now! I've done two mocks (from the Jeremy Pratt Q & A book) and one from the Airquiz website. Scored 77/90/82% respectively, but I can't say I am confident! Doing a flight school mock tomorrow, prior to circuits (weather permitting). They want me to do two mocks before taking the actual exam (next week?). All I know is I'll be damned pleased to get it out of the way!

Regarding first solos...absolutely my experience too! My problem was...myself. My instructor said "right your ready to go". I said thought I needed more EFATO practice. Next good day that was available he didn't even ask. He just got agreement, jumped out and said "The training will take over, have fun." It really does; the initial worry was soon replaced by earnest concentration followed by a greaser (well that's how I like to remeber it) - Yeah! :D

Precautionary Landings
 

Well, yet again due to the weather, our Nav was out the window!

I started the afternoon with the RT written exam, which to be honest had some horrible, stupid questions in, but I passed anyway! I can now apply for my RT license when I get the papers tomorrow - this was a good start for the flight. It was decided that we would fly north and do a precautionary landing - something which I had not done yet, and which I had been looking forward to trying. I had this feeling in my mind that it wouldn't be too difficult, but it was not as easy as I thought....

After takeoff we asked for a non standard exit via Aintree Racecourse, instead of Seaforth - this was approved and it was good to be able to see the picture from a different angle. I am getting better now at picking out local features, and getting to know my "Ponderosa!"

Picking a spot to land was easy, we are spoiled for choice around here, it's more of a case of "spot the built up area". So, over we went to set up for a circuit pattern at about 500-600 feet. The wind at this point was roughly 22 knots, and was a little gusty, so this made things quite difficult. Keeping 80 knots, with one stage of flap and about 1800 rpm was a nightmare. On each turn I had to worry about heading correction due to the wind. I kept losing height, gaining height, going to fast, too slow etc - I just couldn't seem to get the dam aircraft in trim. Eventually, once I settled down, we flew one pattern to the right of the runway (or chosen grass area), then another one straight down the centreline, never losing sight of the landing area, this is very important. Like I say, the wind was palying havoc with my direction and at the end of it I felt quite drained - like I did at the end of my instrument flying lesson.

I have learned today that I need some more slow flight (not only by law, but I need to practice getting the aircraft in a good setup). One thing that I knew was going to be tough was the landing. We had a full 14 knots crosswind - very tasty. I set up for 80 knots, and no flap. Being totally honest, I nailed it and touched down with no problem - that felt quite good :8

I booked in for tomorrow as the weather (was) suppoed to be good, but it is looking like another cancellation according to the BBC.

Good to see you all making progress and getting some flying done - keep it up,

Lee :cool:

Well Mazzy, looks like you had a varying sort of day. Personally, I had a "mare" of a day!! Took my mock Air Law this am, and did the most stupid of schoolboy errors - I failed to answer one of the questions. I'd left it 'cos I wasn't sure of the answer, and forgot to go back for it!! How bl@@@y stupid. Still "passed" with 82.5%, which I was happy with.

Then into the circuits. Pretty busy at E.Mids today, with a Royal flight taking priority over everything it seemed (Prince Andrew spending tax payers money again??!!). First two circuits were to the left, with a couple of orbits to wait for a 737, then two to the right (again with a couple of turns to wait for another 737). I was pretty well OK with the climb, downwind, orbits, setting up for finals, approach speed etc, but yet again made a pretty poor job of the landing(s). I'm trying to suss out in my mind why I'm still flaring too soon. I seem to be OK until I cut the revs at about 100', when the aircraft of course descends more rapidly. Panic then sets in and I pull back too hard, and it balloons and so on. I was pretty depressed on the way back home, feeling I'd made no progress at all since my last efforts, though "he who must be obeyed" in the right hand seat, told me not to be frustrated, and that I'll suddenly get the hang of it - we're going to discuss it tomorrow. I suppose I've only carried out six actual landings, so it's maybe early days.

I'm back again tomorrow, when I'm determined to do a better job.

Best of luck all.....

Ditto with me. You're by no means the only one. Early days for me too but we'll get there :ok:

V1R

ch.flag and V1R

when I was learning I was told to cut the power at around 100ft and suffered all the problems you seem to be having, even after passing I never really felt confident with landings.
Then I flew with a much older and more experienced instructor who showed me to keep some power on much longer and only remove it after the flare to allow the aircraft to finally sink onto the runway. This avoided the allarming effect of having to point the nose at the ground to maintain airspeed just at a time when all your reactions are telling you to pull up!
I realise you can only do as your instructor says but it may be worth bearing the above in mind.

Guys

A problem which I used to have is that I was flaring too early, as the runway seemed to always look much closer than it actually was. The way I got around it was to wait for the tyre marks to appear on the runway - for some reason, you can only actually see them once you are quite close to the surface. This helped me to flare at the right time and not too high :confused:

Hey guys, don't feel bad, the flare is pretty much the hardest thing you'll learn to do. There is no real way to 'teach' it. It is more about just feeling when the aircraft needs to be leveled out, and trust me, that feel will come in time.

All landings are different and so need to be treated as such. Sometimes you may be slightly too high and so may have to descend from 200ft with no power on at all (and maybe a sideslip if your really high! :E ) sometimes you may be shallow and so have to keep the power on untill well into the flare. Personally and trying to generalise, I pull off the power just as I begin the flare and just glide in to the hold off. Its pretty much what I've always done in gliders and so I know it well and its done me well so far.

Keep your heads up, you'll sort it out :ok:

Ch. Flag,

If you look at the earlier pages, you'll see all of us have agonised over the flare height. I think most students go through two stages: too high (scared of contacting the ground) followed by too low (an overcorrection of the problem once it is recognised).
I guess your runway at East Mids is quite wide and long, which can also result in a high flare - you think you're closer to it than you are.

I woudn't worry about the height for pulling back the power, go for a nice stable approach speed with not too much change in attitude as you near the threshold.

Finally, one piece of advice that C-bert gave me in relation to take-offs, but applies equally to landings: Try to relax - it helps.

You might have already answered this, but what are you learning in?

HH

Mazzy : Try looking well ahead not at the ground.

Remember :- terra firma. The firma the ground ,The more terra.

If I remember correctly you are flying a Traumahawk,best of luck
not the easiest thing to fly.
Try approach over the fence @ 120 kts in a warrior,Good fun !!!!!


Fly safe All..

Above someone said That is SO TRUE and bear in mind that even dozens (hundreds!?) of hours after you get your PPL, this will still flummox you on occasion! For example, if it's been a while since I've landed on a very wide (e.g. MIL) runway, I find that I misjudge it. But overall it's a bit like riding a bike... you just have to do it again and again and again until it "works".

Andy

Just back from a lesson this morning, and BOY do I feel much better"". Did 5 circuits, and everything was vastly improved over yesterday's dumb performance. I discussed the cutting of power at 100' with my instructor (who has been at the school for 10 years), and he explained that at E.Mids, where there is huge runway space, leaving power cut until the flare is fine, but landing at smaller airfield, with much reduced runway length, a slower, steeper approach is needed, and that we'll be practising ALL types of approach over the coming lessons.

Anyway, back to today, I was still a bit flaring early, but not so much as yesterday. I learned not to fixate on the runway where I would touch down, but to look mainly at the runway horizon as I flare. This gave a much better perspective of the landing area, and whilst all 5 of my landings were a bit on the heavy side, they was much better than 24 hours previously.

Somehow, I felt more relaxed today than ever before, and seemingly able to trim the aircraft better, reducing effort and making life easier.

To complete my "rehab", I scored 92.5 on my second Air Law mock exam, so I will sit the pukker job next week...I really cannot wait to reading something different!!

I hope, Mazzy, That I'm not hi-jacking your thread too much!

Cheers all, have a great weekend (we're off down to the boat for a few days, to give me a break from aviation!!

Hampshire Hog, I\'m learning in a Warrior. Nice little aircraft to start in.

Glad you had a good flight CF.

I passed another exam today. Sat Flight Performance and Planning this afternoon. 100% :D

Happy flying y'all :ok:

Blinkz - 100%, sorry that's a figure I don't recognise!!

Well done.

Hi Guys,

Are any of you training for you mock PPL flight test? Did any of you have any issues with different instructors having different styles of doing circuits etc?

Cheers

yay! QXC done and dusted today :cool:

Gorgeous day for it, silky smooth conditions and good viz. Had the ground briefing, this was loooong. Then out to the aircraft, inspection. Taxi out power checks complete, 25min hold waiting to go :suspect:

Finally got in the air and set off for Prestwick. There was hardly any wind so it was easy going, got there in 40mins and did a gorgeous landing. Quickly got my bit of paper signed and a quick drink and I'm off again. Routed up to kilmarnock then round the glasgow control zone up to alloa. On to Newburgh and then into Dundee. Again a quick stop to pay landing fee and to get my second signature. Then off again back to Edinburgh. The whole trip was really good, very enjoyable. Tiring tho, I'll add to this description later with abit more detail, just want to chill for abit.

Happy flying! Surely some of you must have flown on a nice day like today? :ok:

Ch. Flag

I'm in the Warrior too.

As you say, a nice little aircraft, but the low wing makes judging the flare a bit harder.

If you're doing hard landings try this: remember the yoke is there to protect the nose-wheel. Keep holding it back through the whole landing. I still tend to let it go too early, with the resulting heavy thud onto the runway.

Sounds like it's going well though. Keep it up.

Blinkz, well done!

HH

H.H.

As much as I'd like to blame the low wing on the Warrior, I think it's me, not the plane!!

Three lessons this week: tomorrrow, Thurs and Friday. Also (and I hardly dare tell you this just in case.....!) but I'm taking my Air Law exam tomorrow. Mocks have been OK, but I bet my luck doesn't hold out....!

Cheers all

C.F.

At least you guys are flying!!!
I keep running into troubles... first the aircraft goes u/s... then when it's back I get foiled by the weather (AGAIN!!) then I find out my instructor has left (gone bankrunning apparently), good for him but p$ss-poor timing for me... then the aircraft (Warrior) goes off to have a prop overhaul, away till end of next week - and I'm back at uni the week after that.
SO - called the flying school this morning, have officially given up on the Warrior and it's back to the Cessnut for the final two navs. Haven't flown a 152 in almost a year so this could be interesting.
Sooooo damn slow though....

At least it'll be cheaper I guess... :\

I PASSED!! Only 80% (Air Law), but a pass is a pass! I made the stupid mistake of going back and changing a couple of answers I was not sure about......and changed them from right to wrong (evidently it always happens that way).

1hr 20 mins of flying today, six circuits (a lot of commercial traffic today), so spent some time orbiting. Getting the hang of landing now, flaring later, and generally getting down OK. Also, he chucked in an engine failure a 300', which was a bit of a shock, but I went instinctively for the glide. Much more of that to come tomorrow it seems.

Er, sorry ... looks like I'm the first to say this, but if I hadn't someone else would have been along in a minute ...

Wrong attitude. You are learning this stuff for a reason. The reason is not to pass exams: the reason is to avoid killing yourself and, more importantly, to avoid killing me.

If you got questions wrong on which colour paper the Chicago Convention was printed on then fair enough, who cares. But if you got questions wrong on rights of way in the air, then please warn me before you next fly up my way and I'll stay on the ground.

A little harsh Gertrude the Wombat!

Medical students don't get 100% in their exams and we let them practice medicine. ATPL students don't get 100% on their exams and are allowed to fly 400 people around the sky.

If the licencing authorties et al. had statistics that pilots with less than 100% in exams were consistently killing themselves and others more than those few (if any) who aced every exam then we might see pass marks of 100% in all examinations laid down. We don't.

I'm not sure you can accuse someone of having the wrong attitude to flying by a half-dozen word statement along the lines of "Phew! I passed my exam!" :O

Did you get 100% in every PPL exam? If so, then well done and good on you, but you'd be in the minority!

I see your line of reasoning that this stuff is learned for a tangible reason and not just as an academic activity and you're absolutely right but your comments to Chequeredflag are a little melodramatic.

My humble opinion,

V1R

Oh dear! A rather tongue in cheek comment rather seems to have upset you. For sure I was happy to pass, and if 80% was not OK, then the pass mark would NOT have been set at 75%, would it??. For your information, I was rather disappointed at my pass mark, 'cos in the mocks I got just under and well over 90%. Also I was pissed off with myself for changing two answers from right to wrong, which would have made it 85%. I have worked bloody hard at this exam, something I have not had to do for nearly 45 years.

So, as I said, a pass is a pass, and afterwards I had chance to see where I went wrong (which included a couple of silly mistakes, but I am only human), so please, get off your "Holier than thou", attitude and keep you mind on your own abilities

Chequeredflag,

CONGRATULATIONS!!!! I felt just as you do; Air Law is a completely horrible exam; there are so many questions in it where you can't quite understand what it is they're asking. :confused: And there's so, so much to remember.

I think what Gertrude MEANT to say was something like this: "Well done for passing, but do bear in mind - and I'm sure you are - that Aviation Law is important and that you need to know a lot of this stuff before you go flying".

Anyway, you and I, and many others, can now breathe a sigh of relief that we don't need to remember all this stuff - just know where to look it up! Other than things like rights of way of course; it's a good idea to know about that kind of thing when you're up there. :ok:

Again, well done!

Whirly the Exam-Hater.