Thanks Whirley! For the record, the ones I got wrong were not perhaps of the "important" category. My comment "a pass is a pass" was meant to display my disappointment after getting much higher marks in the mocks. I think it was a case of exam nerves!!

There are few people that take safety and it's associated rules more seriously than myself. For the past 40 years I have worked in a very dangerous environment, where one mistake can seriously injure people. My other passion is sailing, and I take my 38' yacht across the Channel through some of the busiest shipping lanes in the world, and in the Atlantic as far as the Canaries. I would never put myself, my crew or indeed my boat in harms way - I am a very cautious sailor. Sensible comment/advice I certainly welcome, but I do not need the likes of someone who calls himself "Gertrude the Wombat" (!) lecturing me on the need to take the rules of flying anything other than very seriously.

If I've overreacted to his aggressively put comments, then so be it......

Well done , dont worry about stupid comments ,theres always somebody who has to try and spoil it and its usually the wombat

Oh dear - I think Gertrude was being a little over sensible but has valid points. I dont think I would stay grounded though at the thought of you flying mate, that was a little harsh. I have just passed my RT written, and I was bloody happy to pass it. The pass mark is 80% and that's what I got. I was a little dissapointed to be honest, like it's been said, I am usually in the 95% area - but I was glad to have passed. The good thing to do, was to go over the questions I got wrong with my instructor, note down the topic, and then read up on it later - I didn't just brush it aside and celebrate a pass, because RT is very important. The questions I got wrong were easy, and I went in with the attitude that "I knew it all" which in turn meant I didn't read the question properly. A good lesson learned - you never know it all and you need to read the question slowly and use the exam time your are allocated!

Very well done indeed for passing - you have done 3 air law exams now and as you progress in your flying, it all actually does fit into place, and you will see that Air Law is there for a reason :ok:

A close shave Mazzy - no doubt Gertrude will want to stay grounded when you are flying!!! I have to say though, even you have assumed wrongly that I seemed to think Air Law is just an exam to get out of the way! I don't remember anything other than the "pass is a pass" quip, which you all seem to have taken the wrong way - I repeat, it was a comment to express relief at actually passing. Before I got the result, I telephoned my wife to say that I thought I'd flunked it. I genuinely thought I would only get about 60%. I was really rattled!!. Panic began to set in around question 20 - it seemed I knew the answers really, but couldn't persuade myself that I did, if that makes sense. The icing on the cake was changing two answers from right to wrong!!

Like you, after mocks with up to 95%, perhaps I was a little too self assured. The questions seemed to be rather more "oblique" than experienced in the mocks (more like those in the aptly named Confuser). I spent days/weeks on the damned subject and perhaps became over confident.

Still, enough of this subject - I'm supposedly up again this afternoon, though at present the visability is marginal.

Cheers all........

Sorry my friend, it was not meant to sound like that. I defy anyone to say that they weren't "bloody chuffed" to get Air Law done and out the way! I certainly was and I am glad! Like I said, air law doesn't mean much when your a beginner, or if you havent done much flying. It all starts to make sense after a while, and that's were all the reading and studying, and the exam, plays it's role. Thats MHO anyway :cool:

Sorry, Mazzy if it seems I've introduced a sour note on an otherwise great thread, though I didn't deliberately start it!! I do accept everything you say on the subject of exams, of course....

Cheers

Mike

Hey, where would we be without a little sourness here and there :E Keep up the good work mate! :ok: :ok: :ok:

Well, I had such an amazing flight yesterday. I figured I still had 40 mins slow flight to do, so we went on a little sight seeing flight down the coast of Wales, towards Rhyll. What a beautiful flight it was - a little misty but the scenery was fantastic - never actually been down that way before, but I can see myself flying down there when I have my license.

The order of the day was to fly slow in different configurations, including with flap (different stages) and how to be able to climb, say at 65 kts then level off, whilst still remaining 65kts. It wasn't too difficult to be honest, set the desired RPM (there are set figures which should work - these usually require a little tweaking to get it right).

I learned quite a bit on this flight, first of all, when you decrease the RPM to say 1700RPM and let the aircraft settle, the RPM will continue to drop for about another 500 RPM by itself, this is due to the aicraft actually slowing down, which results in less airflow, in turn slowing the prop down. The same works in the opposite, when you increase RPM. This is vitally important because you THINK you are all set up, but what actually happens is that you will begin to descend - you need increase the PRM ever so slightly, after you have slowed down. I figured this out after I kept descending :sad:

With the flaps down was a different ball game. This is an excellent way to illustrate the "throttle for height - controls for speed". What happens is, during slow flight, if you lower a stage of flap, the airspeed will bleed off, UNLESS you lower the nose. If you lower the nose to keep the airspeed, you will descend, as you are pointing to the ground. This is where the throttle comes in, if you increase the power to stop the descent, the result is a lower nose attitude, in straight and level slow flight. This gives you better visibility forward as you dont have a high nose attitude to maintain a high angle of attack.

Another thing that I need to get used to - when you reduce the RPM you will have significant left yaw, due to the reduction of the slipstream. I have always know this and have usually always compensated for it - however, when in constant level slow flight, the aircraft seems to always want to yaw, and I found that I kept losing heading to the left quite a bit. Flying is so much easier when the aircraft is in trim - this is an art and I am beggining to get the grasp of it. I now remove my hands from the controls and use my feet to steer the aircraft (just to test the trim). This is also good for when your hands are full or you are mapreading etc.

To conclude, a fantastic enjoyable 1Hr 30Mins flight - down the Welsh coast. I have completed the legally required time for slow flght anyway.

It's great to see those who are doing their QXC and that everyone (almost everyone) is flying. Keep it up and safe flying :ok:

Lee

I think that's right :)

I wasn't really trying to get at anyone in particular, just a general reminder that "learning to pass the exam" is not what it's about, as I know that there are a number of younger students here who have spent much of their life so far "learning to pass exams" and could possibly find a nudge out of that mindset helpful. Sorry if I annoyed anyone unreasonably.

The only problem I have with exam technique, is when people dont read the course books, but merely study the confuser in order to remember the questions etc. It is important to understand the question, not just know the answer :)

Agreed. Fair point.

V1R

Gertrude,

I got a bit "Victor Meldrew" when you made a reasonable point. Just felt a bit unfairly accused....

Cheers

Mike

Concerning aviation exams...

This is a difficult one. Since I started flying in 1997 I've learned lots about flying, nav, met etc etc...and I've also learned lots about passing exams. Unfortunately, these two things have sometimes been very different. :(

Where Air Law is concerned, in Real Life I've memorised the stuff I really need to know, like rights of way, what the different bits of the signal square mean, all about controlled airspace, and where to look up anything else I might need to know. For the exams...well, I have vague memories of Chicago conventions, something odd about rights when an aircraft from one country flies across another country and lands in a third one :confused: , and how to work out what the CAA means with ambiguous sounding sentences about five lines long.

For met, I've learned when flying to get a feel for what's actually happening and what those cirrus clouds really mean, the best places to look for wx forecasts on the internet, and when to realise that nobody has a clue what the weather is going to do. For the exams, I learned to interpret TAFs four lines long with abbreviations I could look up if they ever appeared, which they didn't...like volcanic ash, in North Wales!!!

For human factors I learned for the exams to forget that I have a degree in psychology and many years of working with people, and just to memorise what the CAA said were the right answers. A radio ham friend had a similar problem with CPL Radio Aids - forget reality; just learn what the answers are supposed to be.

So I have no problem with people learning to pass exams - because IMHO that's what you have to do - a result of the whole multiple choice system of testing really. But just make sure you actually learn what you need in order to be a good pilot as well. :ok:

Sorry to go off at a tangent, but I think it's actually very relevant.

Hi All,

Well, my flying career isn't continuing very well at the moment. I haven't managed a single lesson since the beginning of January - all cancelled due to the weather (my personal raincloud again).

It was a relief to satisfy the urge by getting in the back of a 757 yesterday for a short domestic hop!

I have read all of the comments re. exams with interest. I agree entirely with sentiments that, as students and qualified PPLs, we need to understand the subjects covered by the exams. How many of us can remember every rule in the Highway Code? We still drive. Good pilots read lots and continue to learn throughout their careers.

However, as I have pointed out on a couple of occasions, the CAA questions are not only written in a confusing way, but some of their 'correct' answers are rather dubious in fact. (See my comments in an earlier post on the human factors - time to avoid a collision question). This makes 100% passes somewhat unlikely for the majority.

From what I've read, I think everyone on this thread aims to be safe and professional. Flying is a privilege. Safety is going to be improved by mature and open discussion. Not by jumping on anyone who writes a word out of place.

I've noted the apologies passed between those concerned, but I also hope we can continue discussions in a more positive and friendly manner. That might set an example to some of our 'professional' colleagues on their part of PPRUNE!

HH

This might help us all get back to the thread.
Flew last Wednesday did a few flapless landings with my instructor , then he hopped out and i went and did five of my own , plus one go around. I was told to continue approach and could see the reason why there was one of the airport cars driving down 28, i kept it coming but with the extra speed due to lack of flaps , it seemed as though i would catch him up so i called the go around.
Between my first and second flight we were forced to hold on 28 after landing whilst a banner tower tried to drop the banner after a few goes it coudnt , so we moved back to the apron and it landed on the runway still dragging the banner followed by all the fire engines!
Thursday was my first Nav Blackpool-Kirby Lonsdale-Arnside viaduct-Blackpool i had previously had a days groundschool with Tony one of my instructors it left me feeling pretty confident ,which he told me could be a big mistake.
Took of on 31 set climb at 65knts and then set heading 025 ,got to my first feature which is where it should have been and on time, levelled of at 2500 back to 90 knts and tried to hold height and heading , as Tony put it ,if you have got time to think how nice it is , theres something else you should be doing.
Arrived over the Lune and was a bit suprised i had a feeling i might have been on the wrong bend but wasnt 100% sure,the timings were correct so i flew on looked out of the right window, bugger me somebody had moved the M6 it was on the wrong side, i called Tonys attention to this fact and i felt pretty gutted he said to find Kirby Lonsdale from here so i had a look at the map made a turn and went pretty much straight to it and still arrived on time!
My heading to arnside was spot on and we flew directly over the middle of the viaduct , so after my earlier error this felt much better.
Time to turn towards home i set my heading and arrived over Heysham nuclear power station a minute early and slightly to the right of it. Continuing across the bay it was obvious that yet again my heading was out and that i needed to be further left so i corrected for this and reached the point 3 minutes early, i was a bit miffed and wondered what i had done differently whilst working out the three headings.
For the first time we did an overhead join followed by three glide approaches they were all pretty good landings as Tony said a good landing is when you hear the wheels just start to rub on the runway.
Well it was in to the classroom to work out where i went wrong, lines were redrawn , tracks measured the wind calculations done , variation added and guess what we both had the same figures and they were the same as the ones on my plog.
Tony checked with the tower for the windspeed and direction it was the same as the 214 form we had used and he said that it was obviously stonger than forecast , but at least i had spotted an error , told him and then done something about it. Up again Monday steep turns, pfls and then in the a'noon Blackpool-Wigan-Clitheroe-Blackpool hope it all goes well.

Bob Stinger,

Sounds like some good flying there :ok:

V1R

Ok, I am cheating a little here:

http://groups.msn.com/PPLFlyingPictures/flyingpics.msnw

This will be my photo diary - anyone can view it. Bookmark it if you like, as I will update it regularly :)

Back to viewing prune as we know it :D

Probably one of the best things I have done so far was to write this diary. So many people have emailed me as a result of it, and I am making lots of good friends. That’s what happened about two weeks ago, a chap, Paul, emailed me and said he liked the diary, and told me where he lived, and that he was a PPL at Liverpool – by some amazing coincidence, we live within 1 mile of each other, share exactly the same interests (computer wise) and both love flying. Paul has his PPL, and offered to take me for a flight, which was on Saturday. So we spoke on the phone and thought about the Northern route (Leyland, Southport) but agreed that a trip to Wolverhampton (the southern route that I have to fly solo) would be the best. So I had a go at the flight plan before I set off for good practice – Paul can fly this one visual no problem, but it was good for me. So we got there and started planning what we were going to do. I learned quite a bit today – first thing I did was to call Wolverhampton and let them know that we were coming. Ok this seems pretty simple (which it is) but it is something that I haven’t done before, which was to book a flight! The chap at the other end was very helpful and luckily he never asked me any questions I couldn’t answer. He gave me the active runway, the weather, joining instructions and even the QNH at the time. So there was some experience for me. Sounds daft I know, but it gave me confidence.

So, onwards and upwards. This was to be my first flight, as a non-student. It’s amazing how different it actually felt flying. To me, this is what it was all about, flying with friends and enjoying it. To be honest, it made me want my PPL even more, and I kind of felt a little ‘left out’ if you know what I mean. Sort of like when all your friends are driving before you as you are the youngest one! As I have my RT in the bag, I could help out on the radio – which was brilliant as I could participate more and fell like I was doing something worthy. So we set off with a howling tail wind and it took us about 25 mins to get there. Paul did have a GPS, but I used the map as much as possible and tried not to look at the screen. It is amazing though how much workload one of the devices can take off you – they are amazing. But they are another story, and this has been battered to death on prune!

It was a glorious day with great visibility and pretty much no cloud at all. I found that I was quite good at spotting things we were looking for, mainly airfields. I could spot out Cosford, Shawbury, Poulton and Hawarden no problem – something which Paul may have something to say about!! We spotted Wolverhampton quite a way off, due to the good vis etc. We actually used the GPS just to maintain heading, as I fear the wind had changed after I done my plan – I could spot all the towns and cities etc, like Wrexham, and Crew so it wasn’t too difficult (I probably wont be saying that when I am doing it solo!).

It was actually the first time I had done an overhead join, as they are not allowed at Liverpool, so it was interesting to see how they worked. When we landed we met up with Jim, a friend of Paul’s and he took him for a 20 minute jolly – this was his first ever flight, and he did feel a bit sick, but I am sure the night out that was planned still went ahead! I actually didn’t know this but, when you hire an aircraft, you only pay for the flight time – not the entire time you have it. At first, I was concerned because I thought it would be impossible to land away and have the ‘hundred pound burger’ without paying full fares whilst it was sat on the ground. So as long as the aircraft is available, I could take it all day (it would have to be pretty available!) and only pay for flight time. Brilliant.
So, quite a few cups of tea later, we set off back for Liverpool. We had lots of trouble with the radio when we called up Cosford. Readability was easily 1 and couldn’t make out a word they were saying. We basically transmitted that we would remain east abeam the field and well clear of any traffic, then switched over to Liverpool. We did try Shawbury but they were closed (the military and the weekend do not mix!). as a result of adjusting the squelch on the radio, all was much clearer – and I done the rest of the radio to Liverpool. Paul asked me “would you like to put the initial call to Liverpool”? I was going to say no, as I find these most difficult, but I thought to myself “if I keep putting this off I will never get it right”. So I did it, and got it right. A very good confidence builder indeed.

Coming back it was great to be able to pick out local features to the South, as most of my flying is done to the north as you know. We could see weather coming in pretty quick from the west, including snow showers and increasing low cloud, so we wanted to get back as soon as. We had to orbit a couple of times and Oulton Park and we were actually given number 7 initially. Eventually, we got onto left base and Paul touched it down brilliant, given the strong crosswind. Overall it was an excellent day, I learned a lot and is all good experience. Like I say, I am glad I wrote this diary, otherwise I wouldn’t be doing things like this – even next week I am going up for some aerobatics in a Chipmunk, not as a result of my diary, but as a result of meeting a chap who co-owns it. That was a bit of inspiration from the ‘Quitting Flying’ thread, as I am sure Whirly will understand :)
Paul is an excellent pilot, and I look forward to another flight with him soon - hope you can make a post here shortly mate ;)

Sorry for the long post, hoping to make some navigation entries soon.

Best wishes,

Lee :ok:

Sounds good maz, but can you reszie your pics please??? It makes you have to scroll to read all the text lol.

Yeah, I'm as lazy as Blinkz...and lack 1600*1280 res ;) A resize would be good.

Nice pics mind :ok:

V1R

Excellent post Mazzy! One of the best things to do is fly with other PPLs, before or after you get your license, as you will elarn a lot - from each other!

Sounds like you're doing everything right: keep learning and keep on enjoying it!

Andy :ok:

Mazzy,

After our little adventure to Wolverhampton on Saturday, I thought I would pop in to say hello.

I was the PPL that took Mazzy to Wolverhampton on Saturday.

As I am pretty new to this myself (I only got my ticket last June) I could not offer much to Lee other than to let him see how another fairly new PPL gets around and does things, I hope he gained something of use from our little trip. I think Lee is being a little over generous with his comments about me, I am the first to admit I have a hell of a lot to learn but do appreciate the kind words :O

Now to throw a few back at Lee, or should I call him HAWK EYES!!!! I have been to Wolverhampton 3 or 4 times and usually spot it when I am pretty much on top of it, Lee had it from about 15 miles out. His r/t was spot on and will improve dramatically after his Northern/Sourhern solo flights as will his confidence to make those calls. All in all we had a really good day out. I am gonna get checked out in the PA28 so hopefully Lee can join our bi-monthly flights.

(BLUSH)

Why thank you for those kind words :D :D :D

I really did learn a lot Paul, and I know I will on every flight we have, so thanks again - I hope you stick around in here :ok: Look forward to some flying in the 4 seater, only had a flight in a Warrior once, so it will be brilliant, especially as I will probably get the conversion myself. Sorry about the pics, I will figure out how to resize them and hopefully post some more :cool:

Hopefully going up in the chippy tomorrow, however I doubt it due to the oh so perfect weather we have got :=

Thanks all for the kind words, I apreciate it :)

Lee

Mazzy

Just booked my 1st lesson on the PA28 conversion so hopefully we can get some more airtime soon.

I take it Neil has bee non the phone to you :)

If you want me to resize the pics later on just let me know.

Just in case anyone missed the pictures edit:

http://groups.msn.com/PPLFlyingPictures/flyingpics.msnw

Like I said, I will always be updating it, so bookmark if you wish :D

Cheers :ok:

I love the pics! But it is better to have them presented this way :)

Andy

I've had my last two lessons plagued with strong winds. Last week, we could not do circuit work at east Mids due to a 737 doing the same thing (and for some reason he got priority - don't they know who I am?!). We waited for him to touch and go in pretty strong crosswind conditions before clearance to take off was given, but whoever was flying it did not do a very good job. My instructor gave a loud exclamation as it very nearly put a wing tip onto the runway!!

We were cleared to take off, and we went to Nottingham airfield, doing four T & G's on their runway 27, much narrower and shorter than East Mids!! Wind was around 300 degrees, at 18 knots, gusting to 26. It was very bumpy, the Warrior being blown around all over the place. Nevertheless, my approaches were OK, height and speed etc, though the landings were something else. Nevertheless I did land OK(!), albeit with some coaching as I did so. The landing back at E.Mids was also subject to a strong crosswind, but went OK (when can I get some quiet days to practice the art of landing?)

Yesterday, We were in the circuits at East mids again, but only managed 40 minutes in between heavy snow showers. It was VERY turbulant, and yet again strong crosswinds, gusting regularly to 26 knots. At one point, turning onto base leg, the little Warrior seemed reluctant to obey my commands for (it seemed) several seconds, due to "forces" pushing in the opposite direction!! After 3 circuits (with very crabbed approaches, and considerable use of rudder and aileron to get straight before touch down), the next band of snow was almost on us , so we landed and taxied back to the school - the snow hit just as we shut down, and was a complete "whiteout" - certainly would not want to be flying in that sort of stuff.

Whilst these windy and turbulant conditions are very good experience, I hope to have some smoother flying soon, so that I can move on a bit in the syllabus. Surely a nice day on Friday is not too much to ask?? (looking at the forcast, I don't think I'm going to get it!)

Don't say that! I'm booked in for an hour on Friday morning :ugh:

V1R

Good work chequered, keep it up!

Well what a day I have had! Got to the school for 1030 as I was due a flight in the Chipmunk with a friend who has a share in it. When I was in the air cadet’s, I missed out on the last day of serviceable flying for the chipmunk, so this was to be my first time. We took off and I couldn’t get over how well it flies and how responsive it is! We set up to the north for some aero’s – now, it’s been approximately 6 years since I had last done aerobatics, and that was in the bulldog. I didn’t feel sick at all then, and I was hoping the same would apply today. Well it did – I felt absolutely fine, and there was no need for me to spew! We started off with a couple of loops and then a roll. I was amazed to hear Neil say “right let’s do a spin”. Oh what joy…….I had never done a spin before, but had heard how much fun they were. He killed the throttle, raised the nose then WHALLOP – booted the left rudder and pulled back the control column – over the top we went into a very fast corkscrew type spin – absolutely bloody fantastic! I had control for the flight back before I gave it back for the landing – a truly amazing experience, one which I look forward to repeating. Cheers Neil if your reading. Paul, sorry you couldn’t make it – see you again soon.

Now then – onto my lesson. It was possibly a bad idea but my lesson was on the same day, a few hours later. It was actually my decision whether we flew or not as the wx was a bit dodgy, however to the North it was perfectly clear with great vis. Ideal. So I planned for the northern route – this is the one that had gone so bad last time as you will know. Mistake number one was an appalling takeoff. Nose too high, too much crab and just a shambles. Mistake number two, turned onto the planned heading for Kirkby, which I do know and is the VRP but for some, peculiar reason, I was flying totally the wrong way. I was looking straight a ahead where I knew (thought) it should be and just couldn’t see it. After some hinting from my instructor, we got back on track. Not a very good start I know but it gets better. You may recall from last time I was having difficulty relating the chart to what was on the ground. Well, this didn’t seem a problem this time; I could see where we were and relate all the towns/features along the way. So basically, I knew our position for (most) of the flight. However, (there is always a BUT) this didn’t stop me from making any mistakes. When we were off track, as this was a navigation exercise, I couldn’t simply say “follow the M6 north” which would have got us to our destination, but instead I have to pick an estimated heading to fly, and stick to it. One thing that I just kept forgetting was to synchronise the heading indicator with the compass. This resulted in us being roughly 10 degrees off track most of the time. I need to get this into routine or I am gonna mess up every time. The call to Warton went well as I had planned what I was going to say beforehand. They only gave us a FIS and so I didn’t need to tell them any headings, but I did anyway, probably because I was expecting to. They didn’t seem bothered. I have learned some more features now and could spot Formby point and Southport pier quite well – and next time it wont prove a problem. I hadn’t planned to call Woodvale, as I never thought it would be necessary, but as we were to pass east abeam the field, it was sonly good airmanship. Messed up a little here as I had not planned, but nothing serious. Ok now comes my most shameful moment ever. Coming back to Kirkby, past Woodvale, abeam Ormskirk, I got the ATIS. Before I knew it, I was approaching Kirkby. I forgot to descend. Was at 2000 feet when I just ever so slightly popped the zone. Instructor promptly reminded me and made adequate correction. I felt like ****. What a terrible mistake to make, it was a real downer. Anyway, onward, trying to put my mistakes in the past as not to make anymore. We had to orbit Kirkby for quite some time as there was a huge snow front coming over, we had a non standard rejoin to avoid it and landed in a 15 knot crosswind quite nicely – this renewed some of the shattered confidence.

In summary, I felt much better about being able to know where I was and relating to the map and this instilled confidence. My RT was better than the last time and we actually made the checkpoints reasonably ok. Apart from the initial loss of Kirkby and popping the zone, I was relatively ok with it. Still got a long way to go, and hopefully I can nail this flight on the next one. I have made the mistakes and now it’s time to get it right! Apparently, so a mate tells me, one day I will have a successful navigation flight and feel very good about it, and from then on, they will all be better. I am still waiting but feel I will get there!

My fingers hurt now, sorry for the long post – cheers,

Lee.

Don't feel bad maz, we all make mistakes. Just learn from em. I bet you'll be more careful of the zone bondary next time :E

Sounds like you had a good flight in the chipmunk, spinnings great isn't it!! hehe.

Weather here has been appauling, lots of snow tho, made the daddy of all snowmen yesturday tho, it was about 7ft high and 3 of us were standing on its sholders :D

Passed my RT practical and written on monday so I'm now a licenced Radio user, well, when I apply for it. No flying at all tho, not sure when the weather will get better. You guys on the west side have it easy :p

Mazzy, think positive: it's good to bust the zone slightly with your instuctor aboard because you are learning and I bet you will have this in the forefront of your mind next time you are returning. All aprt of the learning process, and I bet no real harm was done.We were taught to do "FREDA" checks every 15 minutes (I thought everyone does this?):

• F - Fuel
• R - Radios
• E - Engine
• D - DI
• A - Altimeter

Cheers!

Andy :ok:

That's brilliant that mate - well done. A good relief eh - how a bout a nice detailed writeup :{

I reckon if I lived further east I cold beat 7 feet! :cool:

Andy - cheers mate. Yeah I do regular FREDA checks but for some reason, on the Direction I just simply make a note of our present heading - I forget to synch it! I WONT do it any more though!!! Another thing I need to get out the habbit of, is when reading back the QNH to a controller; I must actually put it in. Sometimes I just read it back and dont put it in....like you say, all part of the learning curve, and I wont be busting airspace any more - you are quite right! :ok:

I reckon that unsynch'd DI is probably primary cause of navigation errors for PPLs - during and after the training! Some aircraft you'll find the DI can drift off 10 degrees in 10 minutes, others are more stable...

Andy

Couldn't agree with you more Andy - funny isn't it, how the most important things can be missed out! :{

Mazzy, Blinks, Aussie Andy et. al.

Thanks for all these great posts. As a PPL student it is very helpful to read how others are doing and the thinks to look out for. I'm especially interested in the comments about the DI settings. I've read all about FREDA checks and ensuring the DI and the Magnetic Compass align every few minutes but I've never had to make an adjustment.

The PA28 I fly in has an HSI - Horizontal Situation Indicator which is a combination of 2 cockpit instruments, a directional gyro (compass) and radio navigation indications. According to my instructor the HSI has its own compasses installed somewhere in the PA28 and is really quite accurate and self adjusting. So I do a FREHA check every few minutes and just ensure that the HSI and Compass align. Reading Mazzy's post though will stick with me in future so that if I'm flying with a DI I'll be aware that they can deviate over time.

On the setting of the QNH, when I'm doing my FREHA/FREDA checks I use the A check to check the altimeter - not only am I flying at the right altitude, but is the QNH set correctly. What I mean to say is that I make it a *two* point check deliberately and speak out loud what I'm doing. My own personal learning style is to understand the why and not just the what. Thinking of altimeters makes me think of pressure settings so the QNH setting automatically becomes part of the check (if that makes sense?)

Mazzy - I'm flying out of Leeds / Bradford. Do most of my circuits at Gamston, Full Sutton and Sandtoft. Am just waiting for a still day to get my solo out of the way - no flying for a month now :-(, then I'll be onto nav and the instructor would want us to get over to your side of the Pennines to get some different scenery and to navigate over the featureless-ish tops of the Pennines. It will be interesting to fly around the places you've described to date. The aerobatics sounded like fun too!

MyData

G'day MyData,

Sounds like the DI in your HSI is "slaved", i.e. it is automatically aligned to magnetic North by being linked (“slaved”) to a flux valve (aka "magnetometer"). BTW, more modern aircraft / airliners may have something which is even better than a slaved-DI: solid-state laser-ring or MEMS-based gyros - see for example http://www.xbow.com/Industry_solutio...uide.htm#solid

Anyway, if the aircraft does not have an electronic flux valve, then the gyroscopic DI has to be manually reset to the compass reading during straight and level flight from time to time to compensate for drift of the gyroscopic instrument.

So, you are very fortunate as it is a great luxury to have a slaved-DI when learning! One of the aircraft I fly regularly (P28B Dakota G-ODAK) has a slaved DI and it really makes a world of difference! Run of the mill PA38, PA28, C152, C172 etc rental aircraft typically wil lnot have a slaved-DI.

However, the challenge you may face if learning on an aircraft with a slaved-DI is that when you come to rent a typical PA28 etc. after you have your license, you will typically find that there is no HSI certainly, and probably no slaved-DI so you might end up not sufficiently aware of the need to reset the DI to the mag compass.

Doing so is not too difficult - ensure you are straight and level (can be a bit difficult on bumpy days!), wait for the magnetic compass to settle down, and then rotate the small knob next to the DI to align the DI heading to be about the same as the mag compass indication. The main complication is the the DI and the mag compass rotate in opposite directions from each other, so you look at the mag compass and say "it's a bit to the left of 090" say, but you need to set the DI "a bit ot the right of 090" to get the same heading... this has often caught me out (small brain!) :)

Hope this helps!

Andy :ok:

DI Precession

Hey guys/gals the rate of precession of a DI is adjustable by an instrument mech. There should be a limit applied of so many degrees per hour. If the instrument is outside limits then the gyro bearings might be on the way out or some such problem leading to complete failure.

Ask your instructors about the limits, store the answer/s in your memory data base and refresh mine.

It's this sort of thing that makes flying so fascinating and you NEVER stop wanting to learn more.

Andy

Thanks for the info on the HSI. You are quite correct in that the device is a slaved unit. On the dash panel there is a switch that I've seen the instructor use only once or twice. One of the settings is 'slave' - I don't know the other but it may be manual or master, the switch and labels are tiny and on the right hand side.

When this switch is flicked, when on the ground, the HSI will auto align itself. We do a quick check with the magnetic compass and the surroundings then put it back into slave mode. I don't recall having to do anything in flight.

They are a great help, I don't know if I'd want to have the additional load of adjusting the DI with the compass every 10 minutes :) but it is something I will have to be aware of when switching to other a/c. I know the school has other PA28s and Cessnas, I might request a lesson in one of these when I'm happy with my nav skills in order to get to know and love the DI.

MyData

Ahhh, DI precession. Rented a PA 28 once, the DI wouldn't keep up with the aircraft turns, the compass was leaking and the card "grounded" in the climb so if I did a climbing turn, I had no idea what heading I was on. I flew the beast out of a major airport, was given vectors by ATC and thought that I would be smart and do "timed turns" counting in my head. ATC said "say your present heading" and at that point I knew that I had failed to keep on top of the radio and counting at the same time! :\

I still have problems setting the DI fromthe compass, as Aussie Andy says " if the compass reads a bit to the left of 090 then you need to set the DI "a bit ot the right of 090" to get the same heading" and that's complicated for me too!:confused:

MyData - welcome aboard mate and thanks for your input :ok:

I suppose you aint too far away from Liverpool, or the North West (and me likewise, am not too far from Leeds) so when we have our tickets, we can look forward to some shared nav flights eh, and who knows maybe you or I may invest in an aerobatic rating :D If you have never flown in the North West before it can be quite interesting. Our main feature is probably the River Mersey, which can be seen from all aorund - you can even see the City Centre from further north, in the Blackpool region perhaps, on a clear day. A trip down the Welsh coats is always a good one too - it's pretty difficult to get lost to be honest when you have the coast (purely on a VFR flight, not on a nav-ex, as you are aware I have a habbit of getting lost on) :{ So yes, look forward to a flight with you in the future, and anyone else for that matter!!

Andy:

I know this feeling oh so well and can only dream of a slave DI ! Just be careful Data, like Andy advises, that when you swap aircraft, to keep it in synch, or you can get horribly lost (again, I know the feeling) :=

Cheers,

Lee

Sensible, you posted the same time as me - sounds like a situation where all good nightmares are made. What was the story here then? Did you explain you had a faulty DI or just give them the best headings you could?

I didn't have a slaved one whilst learning, but sometimes hire an aircraft that does have one. I have to try to make myself remember that the D in FREDA now stands for "make sure the ****** thing is still slaved" rather than "don't bother to look at it in this aircraft, it's slaved".