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-   -   2018 Light Aircraft Association AGM award vote (https://www.pprune.org/private-flying/613447-2018-light-aircraft-association-agm-award-vote.html)

Mike Flynn 17th Sep 2018 22:10

2018 Light Aircraft Association AGM award vote
 
This year taking place at Sywell 21st October 2018.

Anyone know what is on the agenda?

I am hearing rumours.

SATCOS WHIPPING BOY 18th Sep 2018 14:22

Website says AGM documentation to be added in due course.
I have heard the rumours too and if they are true then a certain thread on here will have been closed prematurely and unpleasantness will overshadow the event. Hopefully, if the rumours are true, the LAA execs will see sense and kick the hinted at motion into the bin.

Chris Martyr 18th Sep 2018 16:30

Funny that !
Down my way the old jungle drums seem to be beating out a rather strange message too . Seems to be something like ; 'Raging forest fire now calm and under control , but unwise person now want throw petrol on'.

Question: You go through a real bad spell , eventually though , there is light . A talk at a rally is pretty well received , that very same weekend , a forum thread that has hovered above like a guillotine blade is made safe.

Now ,,,,what would your next move be . Surely it WOULDN'T be to remove the lock-pin from the guillotine blade would it ?

Planemike 18th Sep 2018 16:45

Please will someone "in the know" decode this for the rest of us..... Thank you.

Jan Olieslagers 18th Sep 2018 16:53

Very frustrating, indeed, "we want to talk about something but we won't talk about it publicly, we don't even want to say what it is". If they cannot speak out - which may be justified - why begin about it at all, on a public forum? Now it sounds like either they want do distribute panic, or at least alarm, or they are hoping to get private messages.

PS what's "AGM"? It is not in the glossary of my AIP. "All Gone Mad"? "Above Ground Minimally"? :)

Genghis the Engineer 18th Sep 2018 16:59

Annual General Meeting; most organisations that are either charitable, or group owned in the UK are legally required to have one. It's nothing to do with aviation, as a concept.

G

Forfoxake 18th Sep 2018 17:04

I presume they are talking about the possibility of an attempt at the LAA Annual General Meeting to re-instate the LAA award rescinded from T C-T a couple of years back.

I was at her talk at the rally and, had I not known what I know from the PPRuNe thread, I might have been impressed. She is a very engaging speaker!

However, although she never said the word solo at any point, and mentioned the contribution of her back-up crew on several occasions, I did note that she never mentioned that another pilot was in the biplane at any point.

Only in the case of the Winslow crash, did she mention that another member of the crew was up front but she said that she was flying. She put the cause of this crash down to loss of power due to contaminated fuel.

POBJOY 18th Sep 2018 18:37

LAA Shoud not get sidetracked
 
I really hope the 'membership' do not get hung up on this, and stick to matters that are important to the LAA and their continued good work in promoting homebuilding and operating elderly machines.
A TV hyped situation should not even be allowed to come under discussion as it has nothing to do with the association or its reason to exist.
Down here in the far west a member has just flown a machine that he started 11 years ago. This was built from scratch plans and is an absolute gem with looks and performance to match.(that's what it is all about)
TV endorsed side shows are a waste of space and should not be given the time of day.
The LAA as was the PFA before is an amazing operation that we should be proud of; it has superb tech expertise, plus inspires, and encourages all comers to get involved in such a way that is world class.

SATCOS WHIPPING BOY 18th Sep 2018 19:03


Originally Posted by Forfoxake (Post 10252077)
...
Only in the case of the Wimslow crash, .... She put the cause of this crash down to loss of power due to contaminated fuel.

So that lie is perpetuated. Not what the NTSB concluded as far as I recall and I am sure the fuellers at Winslow will be interested to hear they are still getting the blame.

@pobjoy, yes, this should never have come up to LAA in the first place and certainly should not be allowed to detract from the work they do.

Jan Olieslagers 18th Sep 2018 19:55

So @Forfoxake guessed right? Why now admit it implicitly, instead of stating so explicitly from the beginning?

SATCOS WHIPPING BOY 18th Sep 2018 21:32

Because I for one didn't want this thread to turn into a part 2 of the other one. Hopefully that will reopen soon and this one can go on to discussing LAA AGM topics.

Planemike 18th Sep 2018 22:02

100% agree with POBJOY. The business of the LAA/PFA should be supporting the building and flying of recreational aeroplanes......

Mike Flynn 18th Sep 2018 22:13


Originally Posted by Planemike (Post 10252285)
100% agree with POBJOY. The business of the LAA/PFA should be supporting the building and flying of aeroplanes......

I must say I agree.


Chris Martyr 19th Sep 2018 14:24

If this matter is allowed to proceed to AGM level , then the LAA is doing a dis-service to its membership .
This topic was concluded in 2016 via the correct channels and has since been considered as 'case closed'.


The LAA is a wonderful organisation. It allows ordinary people to build , operate and maintain their own aeroplanes . As well as being part of some great network of knowledge and experience , plus the opportunity to partake in as many fantastic Summer events as you can shake a stick at .

This person has already hi-jacked a previous AGM , an AGM in which those attending had the privilege to be addressed by some extremely interesting and fine , worthy people .

The LAA is about its membership ! And not the ego of one rather self-centred person .

rarelyathome 20th Sep 2018 05:54


Dan Dare 20th Sep 2018 08:38

I am very disappointed they are revisiting this farce. I may be minded to cease membership in protest if they even waste AGM time debating this, never mind if they reinstate the award. The PFA/LAA has a long history of advancing aviation and should be embarrassed at getting tangled up in this.

Mike Flynn 20th Sep 2018 14:18

It certainly looks like being an entertaining event.I see Chris Martyr has posted on the LAA forum.

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....707b7b7300.jpg


Pilot DAR 20th Sep 2018 18:59

As I have reopened the original thread regarding Ms. Curtis-Taylor, I will invite discussion on that topic to reside there. I don't want to truncate discussion about the AGM, of other topics warrant that discussion, however, I'd prefer to close this thread if it has no separate purpose.

Does anyone wish to have this thread kept open for AGM discussion on "other" topics of the LAA?

Marchettiman 20th Sep 2018 19:08


Originally Posted by Pilot DAR (Post 10254024)
As I have reopened the original thread regarding Ms. Curtis-Taylor, I will invite discussion on that topic to reside there. I don't want to truncate discussion about the AGM, of other topics warrant that discussion, however, I'd prefer to close this thread if it has no separate purpose.

Does anyone wish to have this thread kept open for AGM discussion on "other" topics of the LAA?

As we have not yet received formal notice of the AGM, nor its agenda (promised with the October edition of the magazine), I think it only fair that this thread does remain open until the topics listed for discussion are announced to the membership.....unless The Times tomorrow has more news about the LAA AGM!

Planemike 20th Sep 2018 19:33


Originally Posted by Pilot DAR (Post 10254024)
As I have reopened the original thread regarding Ms. Curtis-Taylor, I will invite discussion on that topic to reside there. I don't want to truncate discussion about the AGM, of other topics warrant that discussion, however, I'd prefer to close this thread if it has no separate purpose.

Does anyone wish to have this thread kept open for AGM discussion on "other" topics of the LAA?

I would prefer this thread remained open. I have refused to read the T C-T thread for some months now on principle.
As stated earlier by myself and others the PFA/LAA should stick to matters pertaining to building and flying of recreational aircraft. Please may we have some form of statement from the LAA.

Mike Flynn 20th Sep 2018 22:43

Anyone know what else is on the agenda apart from this?

Chris Martyr 21st Sep 2018 15:56

Guest Speaker LAA-AGM
 
Well actually J-S , there will be a talk by Phil Dunnington . www.gonewiththewind.uk.com Check him out , not only did he fly a Beech 18 around the world , but he took an air balloon with him for a bit of between flying light entertainment .

A brilliant read and a totally worthwhile guest-speaker .

A pity that attendees will have to endure the other bit of 'light entertainment that the LAA will be forcing upon us .

Still no comment though as of yet.

RomeoTangoFoxtrotMike 21st Sep 2018 17:43

Phil D. is an extremely experienced hot-air balloon pilot, and a jolly entertaining speaker.

Chris Martyr 21st Sep 2018 19:51

Having been a PFA/LAA member for 27yrs , I have to say that reading the agenda of the AGM in The Times is something of a first. Who would have thought that PF/LA magazine would have been trumped by a newspaper with such provenance . Nothing like mixing it with the right people is there chaps .
If LAA's Vice Prez is acting under his own instincts , then he will surely be contemplating the wisdom of this Gerald Ratner-like gesture . Although it does rather make one wonder if there is a bit of leverage being applied from 'upon High' [capital H intended]

If none of the above is true , then it would be very , very wise to drop the matter completely !

From a members view , let's take a look at the most likely outcomes here .
Option 1 : [ and the most likely] Motion voted out . Humiliation for Tracey , but LAA come out of it relatively unscathed.
Option 2 : Motion is carried . Tracey seen as unwelcome pariah in GA world . LAA reviled as being complicit.
Option 3 : Proposal dropped forthwith like a hot brick . Tracey slightly inconvenienced , LAA now able to continue doing what it is brilliant at , membership all now happy .
Please tell me I'm not the only one to see this !

If however , there is interference from 'upon High' , then it does have to be borne in mind that the democratic process in this case does still apply. It applied in 2016 , and will apply again in 2018 ! There may be posh people at the top . But us plebs still outnumber you .

Please feel free to tell me if I'm wrong !

Above The Clouds 22nd Sep 2018 17:24

I have supported the LAA through membership for years as I believe in its core values for supporting light aircraft aviation, however if this decision is over turned and the award that was obtained by TCT through deceit is re-instated I will be ending my membership with the LAA.

Cows getting bigger 22nd Sep 2018 18:40

This could get tricky. A significant proportion of the LAA membership is there out of necessity; they need to belong due to the airworthiness requirement for their aircraft and are therefore a captive audience. To play politics with that membership is wrong. This reminds me of the ‘vote until you give the right answer’ style of politics. It is so wrong.

The LAA should stick with it’s core responsibilities.

Above The Clouds 22nd Sep 2018 19:47


Originally Posted by Cows getting bigger (Post 10255723)
This could get tricky. A significant proportion of the LAA membership is there out of necessity; they need to belong due to the airworthiness requirement for their aircraft and are therefore a captive audience. To play politics with that membership is wrong. This reminds me of the ‘vote until you give the right answer’ style of politics. It is so wrong.

The LAA should stick with it’s core responsibilities.

My aircraft is Annex II so I am a cash cow to the LAA only because I believe in their core values towards general aviation. If I leave because of their misguided decision making and stop supporting them through membership fee's it is no loss to myself, the committee need to look long and hard as to how they will deal with this scenario as I am pretty sure its not only myself supporting the LAA like this.

Stampe 22nd Sep 2018 20:01

Same as above long standing LAA member but moved from permit to certified aircraft many years ago.I remain a member out of loyalty and to support the aims of the association.Should this decision be reversed I would likely not renew my membership.I call on association members to become involved to stop this attempt to move the association away from its proper business serving the aviation needs of its membership.Regards Stampe

megan 23rd Sep 2018 00:44

Just an observer on the other side of the world, but as I posted on the TCT thread, if the LAA go down this route they're nuts. A vote has been had, result obtained, end of.

Right Hand Thread 23rd Sep 2018 00:50

Perhaps a further motion is required. Removal from the Board any member seeking to railroad the membership into rescinding a decision already concluded?

it seems to me that some people think the LAA is their train set, to do with as they will so as to satisfy/glorify their chums. I think (hope) they are in for a shock.

You can also add me to the list of those who will resign if this is not dropped.

Sam Rutherford 23rd Sep 2018 10:38

Phil's talk will be great (we did the Trans-Atlantic support for him). There's a programme about it coming up next month!

I can confirm that at no stage was the Beech flown solo, but Allie did achieve a first female solo balloon flight in Greenland!

kghjfg 30th Sep 2018 08:36

Remember last time when they tried to remove the postal vote?

This time there will be a motion tabled, only those in the room will be able to vote, the room will have been pre packed with TCT supporters. (as it was last time)

Face it, she is getting the award back. She has many friends in the LAA.

You think the LAA will miss you or I? There are plenty of pilots who cannot leave if they want their aircraft to continue flying.

I expect this behaviour from H(sic)CAP, but not the LAA.

Chuck Glider 30th Sep 2018 09:25


Originally Posted by kghjfg (Post 10262163)
Remember last time when they tried to remove the postal vote?

This time there will be a motion tabled, only those in the room will be able to vote...

Not according to this from Brian Hope editor of the LAA magazine Light Aviation.

https://services.lightaircraftassoci...ost_target.gifby Brian Hope » Thu Sep 27, 2018 7:17 am
Just to clear up another misunderstanding that some seem to have, Proxy votes and votes at the meeting have equal stature.
The magazine, AGM details and Proxy forms have now gone to press, the Proxy form as usual being printed on the reverse of the magazine address sheet. It should be with members late next week.
Full post:- here

ak7274 30th Sep 2018 09:27

Where dId you get the information that postal votes won't count?
First I have heard of it.
As far as I am aware there are no significant changes to the voting at this AGM that make this "assumptiom" believable.

kghjfg 30th Sep 2018 10:04

Aren’t there mechanisms to table new motions at the meeting itself, which will then be voted on by the people in the room only?

Ask yourself, why would TCT be attending if it was obvious it would just be a rerun of the last attempt. There must be a new plan.

Planemike 30th Sep 2018 10:53


Originally Posted by kghjfg (Post 10262211)
Aren’t there mechanisms to table new motions at the meeting itself, which will then be voted on by the people in the room only?

Ask yourself, why would TCT be attending if it was obvious it would just be a rerun of the last attempt. There must be a new plan.

I am not a lawyer, nor am an expert on the constitution of the LAA. I have been a PFA/LAA member for over 40 years.
My understanding is that resolutions have to be submitted 42 days before the meeting and will certainly not be accepted at the meeting.
It is to be hoped that the result of this years vote will be precisely the same as it was in 2016. I have seen nothing to suggest that it will be different. No new evidence has been presented to suggest T C-T is any more deserving of the award now than she was back in 2016.
The whole matter is a distraction and total waste of the time and resources for the LAA. It should concentrate on its core function, helping members to build and restore aircraft for recreational use.

airpolice 30th Sep 2018 11:52

Years from now, when the LAA has been discredited, abandoned and replaced by a more fit for purpose, non political statutory body, with associated fees for aircraft owners... we will be able to point to this farce and see where the rot took hold.

The tail is wagging the dog here, and it has to stop.

Forfoxake 30th Sep 2018 12:20

No update yet on AGM information page on LAA website:


The Annual General Meeting of the Light Aircraft Association Ltd

will be held on

Sunday 21st October 2018

at

Sywell Aerodrome, The Cirrus Suite, Northants

The 2018 LAA AGM will be held in the Cirrus Room in the Aviator Hotel at Sywell Aerodrome, Northampton on Sunday 21st October. The actual AGM forms only part of a full day’s entertainment for LAA members. The program for the day will be announced nearer the time.

AGM documentation



To be added in due course.



Notices of Motions and Candidates for Directorships of the LAA

Notices of Motion of any kind and notification to stand for election to the Board of Directors must be received by LAA HQ no later than Sunday 9th September. Notifications to stand for the Board must be presented by a proposer and seconder, both of whom must be beneficial shareholders. The candidate, who must have been a beneficial shareholder of at least two years, also needs to express their desire to stand in writing. Nomination Form can be found here.

Proxy Voting

Whilst we hope to get a large and enthusiastic audience for the AGM, clearly not everybody is able to attend. However, that does not preclude you from being able to vote because we have a proxy voting system in place. On the reverse side of the address page of the October magazine, a proxy form will list the candidates and the motions that will be put to the AGM.

Membership cards

Please note that to attend the AGM you must be a current member of the LAA. Please ensure you have your membership card with you.
To vote at the AGM you must be a beneficial shareholder of the LAA. Unless you have specifically opted out, you will be a beneficial shareholder by default if you are a current member.

Getting to Sywell



If you are coming by road there are directions on the Sywell website at www.sywellaerodrome.co.uk/location or you can use the postcode NN6 0BN in your satnav.

You are welcome to fly in to Sywell, normal PPR procedures apply (see the Sywell website for details) but landing fees will be waived if you are attending the AGM.

June 2018

Right Hand Thread 30th Sep 2018 13:18


Originally Posted by kghjfg (Post 10262211)
Ask yourself, why would TCT be attending if it was obvious it would just be a rerun of the last attempt. There must be a new plan.

You’re right. In the absence of a cunning, new plan only a glutton for punishment would pitch up hoping to get a different result to the 2016 AGM. What is different this year is that:

1. An expensive lawyer is working for TCT.
2. An expensive PR company is working for TCT.
3. Both have been haranguing the LAA for some months now.
4. At least one LAA Board member appears to support her argument, having submitted the proposal himself on TCT’s behalf.


Now I would be very surprised if TCT is risking a second rebuff because one board member has expressed sympathy for her cause so what else has been said and done between 1, 2, 4 and the rest of the LAA board? The answer is we don’t know because the board aren’t telling the membership.

Pilot DAR 1st Oct 2018 01:30

The long running thread on the topic of Ms. Curtis-Taylor's flying and public relations has been closed, as the recent news was well discussed there. Discussion on the merits and upcoming voting relative to the LAA award considered for Ms. Curtis-Taylor is welcomed on this thread.


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