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To back up Pilot DARs post, this thread will run to cover the 2018 LAA AGM.
It should not be considered a repository for repeating posts already made (some frequently) on the currently closed T C-T thread: such posts will be deleted if copied over to this thread. |
Originally Posted by Senior Pilot
(Post 10262694)
It should not be considered a repository for repeating posts already made (some frequently) on the currently closed T C-T thread: .
The moderation team on PPRuNe have been extremely understanding and amenable in allowing this topic to run. I for one am very grateful for that ! The agenda for the LAA-AGM 2018 will become public in the next few days , and I'm sure that many await with interest to see how the wording of a certain proposal looks. |
It is within the power of the LAA to fix this AND please everyone from all sides. Add Ewald to the award. The original award was for an amazing flight, originally thought to be solo, removed because the award was wrong. (They can’t give me an award for going to the moon, because I haven’t) The flight was still amazing, so simply give the award to Ewald AND TCT. They’ll get the award they deserve, no one can say it’s not true or misleading. Everyone will be happy. I wonder if that’s what they are going to do. Everyone would postal vote FOR that. They’d walk it, and everyone would be happy. Including TCT and Ewald surely? |
Originally Posted by kghjfg
(Post 10262889)
It is within the power of the LAA to fix this AND please everyone from all sides. Add Ewald to the award. The original award was for an amazing flight, originally thought to be solo, removed because the award was wrong. (They can’t give me an award for going to the moon, because I haven’t) The flight was still amazing, so simply give the award to Ewald AND TCT. They’ll get the award they deserve, no one can say it’s not true or misleading. Everyone will be happy. I wonder if that’s what they are going to do. Everyone would postal vote FOR that. They’d walk it, and everyone would be happy. Including TCT and Ewald surely? |
Everyone would postal vote FOR that |
The flight was still amazing, so simply give the award to Ewald AND TCT. |
kghjfg wants to
Add Ewald to the award. No, I don't think he is deserving of inclusion in an award. CC |
Originally Posted by piperboy84
(Post 10262971)
Don't forget Sam, he should get an award too, for the logistics and getting the bags to the hotel promptly (most of the time anyway).
kghjfg. I think you’re being too kind. This was a deliberate and repeated matter of deception that, when exposed, was denied many, many times. I certainly wouldn’d vote for anything other than the result obtained in 2016. In the words of George Bush Jnr ‘Fool me once shame on ummmmm fool you twice ahhhhhhh.......what was the question?’ |
Pulse1 sums it up. A dual trip is nothing really special these days, especially when it is funded by giants of the aviation industry.
Would the suggestion to add Ewald to the award just to save face mean that he too should get an Honorary military rank, a University Doctorate, a Master's Medal etc etc? I do find it amusing when I read the numerous misogyny claims from TCT.. She forgets that the award was given to her and withdrawn because of the lies, not because the LAA suddenly realised it had given it to a woman in error. Although I can see some of the reasons for closing the other thread (keeping it focused on the upcoming LAA vote), we must not forget that this goes far deeper than just misleading the LAA. The other groups got around it with changing citation text to meet what with what happened and placated TCT; the LAA quite rightly stood its ground. I hope they maintain their dignity and do so again. |
H(sic)CAP changed the wording in their award a number of times till they got it acceptable/right. Adding Ewald to the award was just one suggestion. TCT has confirmed she wasn’t solo hasn’t she? An award to TCT and Ewald, TCT as sole pilot, Ewald as the passenger. You can give out awards for flights with passengers, you can get an award for being a passenger. I don’t think Sam should be added to the award, it wasn’t an award for logistics, if the LAA think Sam should get an award, then fine, but that’s a DIFFERENT award. Or, just give them a NEW award / recognition, that’s not voted for by the members is it? So, the members can vote on whether to reinstate the original award, that’ll probably be “no”, but then she’ll receive the new award with its slightly different wording. It’s just going to be like H(sic)CAP isn’t it? |
Or, just give them a NEW award / recognition, that’s not voted for by the members is it? |
Can someone from the LAA give us some background on the late Bill Woodham and why he has an annual award? Am I correct in understanding Colin Hales has won it twice flying his homebuilts? |
It is worth following the LAA forum and this thread, https://services.lightaircraftassoci...php?f=5&t=5519, which has recently been retitled to emphasise to LAA members the importance of voting at their AGM. Posts to date are certainly unsupportive of the motion brought by the Vice President of the LAA! |
For the avoidance of doubt, the suggestion that I be added to the award was a joke.
At least, I very much hope it was! |
Originally Posted by heli
(Post 10263491)
It is worth following the LAA forum and this thread, https://services.lightaircraftassoci...php?f=5&t=5519, which has recently been retitled to emphasise to LAA members the importance of voting at their AGM. Posts to date are certainly unsupportive of the motion brought by the Vice President of the LAA! |
Well LAA members certainly need to vote on the basis of very well known facts. It is almost inconceivable that TCT would succeed (although we have yet to see the exact terminology of the motion). From my point of view there then needs to be some housekeeping on the LAA's part. The first element is a vote of 'no confidence' in Stewart Jackson'. On the LAA website he is stated to be a director. Amongst the duties of a director are to exercise 'due diligence' inI discharging their duties - a difficult thing to justify if you are supporting a proven 'untruth'.
Then I think that the award of prizes for events or achievements which the blazer brigade believe are worthy needs to be re-considered. An LAA member flying an LAA aircraft maybe - but how can a sponsored dual flight with well-publicised errors and mistakes be worthy of a prize? How can it be worthy of re-consideration? It seems the LAA board need to either grow a backbone or get out of meaningless dinners and prizes. |
I wonder how many times the motion wording has changed since its first submission to LAA, changed to perhaps counter or avid any points raised in these and LAA forum pages.
Any sensible person would do the right thing for the benefit of all parties and simply withdraw the motion- the matter would be closed and everyone could move on to more positive things . If it goes ahead, it will end in tears for at least one side (vote against TCT) and perhaps both (vote for TCT). If she gets the vote then it won't end there, I can guarantee that. |
T CT has posted on the LAA website. AIUI, forum conventions mean quoting it here isn't something I'm happy to do but members will no doubt wish to read it.
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It is a shame that she won't post here. Straight answers to straight questions. No trolling, no malicious squabbles just the TRUTH.
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Originally Posted by ChampChump
(Post 10264417)
T CT has posted on the LAA website. AIUI, forum conventions mean quoting it here isn't something I'm happy to do but members will no doubt wish to read it.
Re: The Importance of Voting at OUR AGM .https://services.lightaircraftassoci...ost_target.gifby Tracey Curtis-Taylor » Tue Oct 02, 2018 11:02 pmI am sorry that the 2018 AGM is confronted by a motion about me. It comes at the suggestion of the Chairman. I felt that the process whereby massed proxy votes at the 2016 AGM stripped me of the Woodhams Award on the never explained grounds that I had ‘brought the LAA into disrepute’ was deeply flawed. The Chairman was not prepared to consider the possibility that his actions and those of the Board before, during and after the AGM might have been anything less than exemplary; he issued the challenge. Since the LAA was notified in September 2018 of a motion asking members to agree that what was done in their name in 2016 was wrong, the PPruNe chat forum has been awash with repetitious and abusive messages from a small group of trolls with an impressive capacity for hatred. They are incensed that the Times dared to publish a feature on the LAA and myself by a journalist specialising in aviation matters. Nasty stuff about me previously run by the Daily Mail and the Sun evidently troubled them less. This obsessive discussion – slightly moderated in language – has now transferred itself to the LAA forum where some twelve angry men have spent the last two weeks agreeing with each other. Expressions of outrage that the previously expressed democratic will of the membership that I be disgraced would be subverted by the motion sit rather oddly with this message posted on 2 October 2018 about how to defeat it: “If every contributor to this thread can galvanise five LAA members and ensure those votes are posted (collect/post them yourselves if you have to), it's job done. Many of us are in groups where our co-owners are compelled to be LAA members. Use that disadvantage to our advantage”. I have made a statement on the motion which will, I hope, be seen by all members; but just to correct a few of the bilious fantasies being peddled on this forum: • I am not a liar, nor in the habit of taking credit for the other people’s achievements. • I have never solicited an award from the LAA or any other organisation. • I do not have the backing of a ‘PR machine’ or ‘legal team’, nor do I possess an influential ‘entourage’ of ‘establishment’ figures. ‘Tracey & Co’ are imaginary foes; if the trolls really think they are the proles they utterly deceive themselves. • I have no agenda to subvert the LAA. The object of Stewart Jackson’s motion is to clear my name of allegations gratuitously made against me and the LAA’s name of being vindictive and misogynistic, and move on. • The claim made in a message of 20 September that the passing of the motion would be followed by ‘all manner of other undesirable actions being brought to bear’ is arrant nonsense. |
Answering questions that haven't been asked or responding to accusations that haven't been made has become a bit of a hackneyed technique but still quite effective at pushing focus away from the real subject matter for those who haven't followed it closely.
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Reading that post, I would like to think the Pprune Moderators would like to express an opinion.
I have been a member of Pprune for 15 plus years and in all that time I have tried to obey the rules of the site, whilst expressing my opinion of all matters aviation, in which I was professionally involved for 29 years, with professional experience (lots of it) in search and rescue, sea survival, human factors, flying operations and the training and development of young aviators (and plenty of other things too.) Once, early on, I strayed over the line and was a tad too sarcastic, and received a minor rap on the knuckles...since then I have a clean rap sheet over many years. Here's my point the PPruNe chat forum has been awash with repetitious and abusive messages from a small group of trolls with an impressive capacity for hatred. Pprune Moderators do not allow abusive message (or anything even close to them). They never have, such comments are moderated off and the posters are sanctioned. small group of trolls with an impressive capacity for hatred. Pprune Moderators do not allow hatred on the site. And it's not a small group, there are I would guess hundreds of contributors to this thread. "Trolls" are we? Airline pilots, flying instructors, military aviators, some of whom are female, professional people with a love and passion for aviation (and perhaps also with a love and passion for the truth.) ...LAA’s name of being vindictive and misogynistic Anyway I digress, Her public comments paint a pretty damning and unjust picture of the Pprune forum. Are the moderators not inclined to post a rebuttal or perhaps even contact the LAA and refute her remarks? Or does her reach stretch this far? |
[QUOTE I am not a liar,][/QUOTE
It says it all. However, it is up to the members of the LAA to reflect and vote accordingly at their AGM. |
Thank you TOFO, it hasn't been nice being subject to this kind of vitriol after years of volunteering keeping the trolls away (and often getting a great deal of abuse from them as well as a result).
Also, Pprune Chat was disabled about 12 years ago so not sure where these trolls with their immense capacity for hyperbole, sorry, hatred, are lurking. Could you point me to where the post is that has that quote? Thanks! |
You are welcome. It's just above( #60) posted by one of your fellow mods and copied from the LAA Forum.
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Perhaps a member ought to raise an agenda item for the next meeting, to suggest that the association should be divorced from the back slapping and award giving "business" that has evolved into this mess.
The statutory requirement to be aligned with a body which provides technical expertise, should not compel an owner to be party to political and PR based events. As a driver, I can decide whether or not I join the AA, but I have no choice in complying with the rules laid down by the DVLA. That means I can drive my vehicles, without being part of the business that sells books on every subject under the sun, and wants to pester the membership with offers for holiday insurance. I see nothing wrong in the LAA giving scholarships and awards, apart from the legislative requirement for being part of that, simply because I want to fly a Permit aircraft. |
Originally Posted by airpolice
(Post 10264797)
Perhaps a member ought to raise an agenda item for the next meeting, to suggest that the association should be divorced from the back slapping and award giving "business" that has evolved into this mess..
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Originally Posted by The Old Fat One
(Post 10264757)
You are welcome. It's just above( #60) posted by one of your fellow mods and copied from the LAA Forum.
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suggest that the association should be divorced from the back slapping and award giving "business" that has evolved into this mess. If the LAA cannot distinguish itself by giving awards of merit, with pride, and large agreement within the group, the award should not be given - let alone regiven! I recall that the Nobel committee declined to present a particular award this year, as there was a recent scandal to do with a recipient, good on them! If the path of an award is tainted, it should not be given, any organization must maintain it's proud public image in general, over the desires of one member, and perhaps a few supporters! |
It does unnecessarily taint the award which is after all a memorial to Bill Woodhams.
mike hallam. |
Originally Posted by mikehallam
(Post 10264857)
It does unnecessarily taint the award which is after all a memorial to Bill Woodhams. mike hallam.
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Originally Posted by Planemike
(Post 10264866)
Exactly the problem is NOT the LAA or its award system. It is the recipient of one of those awards.
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Originally Posted by The Old Fat One
(Post 10264605)
. Misogynistic...what does she call herself again...The Bird in a Biplane, well I guess irony is lost there then?
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Bird is derogatory. May as well have been Babe or Bint in a Biplane.
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I am almost starting to feel a tad sympathetic towards her now . All this is really starting to mightily close in on her . The outcome of this AGM vote , whichever way it goes will do neither her nor the LAA any good whatsoever . It literally is a ticking time bomb now and I have just finished my post on LAA's forum with an appeal to see sense before Oct21st !
The self-induced stress that Ms Curtis-Taylor is now under is further magnified by the Winslow AZ incident. Fuel contamination ? No way ! An aircraft which refuelled at the same time and was flying in proximity to the a/c in question suffered no such defect. How can an engine quit at 50' AGL and the pilot not get it back on the runway ? Winslow's runways are 5,000' and 7,500' in length . Plus the issue with the 2 x P1's. I think that Tracey should be given the chance to start September 2018 all over again . |
How can an engine quit at 50' AGL and the pilot not get it back on the runway ? Winslow's runways are 5,000' and 7,500' in length . I was under a complete misapprehension about Winslow untlI I looked it up on Google Earth. From her account I had somehow imagined it to be a tightish dirt strip, surrounded by some obstructions ,with their being refuelled from a simple pump, possibly under poor supervision technically. 29 (IIRC) is the fully paved runway they took off from and it has about 6,000 ft. between the piano keys. Even taking into account density altitude effects ( and I have landed "firmly" on one unforgettable occasion due to not fully appreciating this ) something doesn't quite gel. But ,there again, of course, I wasn't there |
The AGM documentation and Motions are now on the LAA pages for all to read.
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I've just read the Motions:
Welcome to the Light Aircraft Association Motion 1 is indeed strangely worded - hence David Mole's Motion 2 and his justification: "I am concerned that the Motion which has been advanced over Stewart Jackson's name is unclearly worded," 29 (IIRC) is the fully paved runway they took off from and it has about 6,000 ft. between the piano keys. |
My flabber has never been so gasted that this utter nonsense has reared up again.
She is a Charlatan of the highest order and in my view (we're all entitled to one) has no place being re-awarded this pot. I will continue to watch, open-mouthed, as this unfolds. If she IS re-awarded, I would discontinue my LAA membership, other than the small detail that I need to be a member to get a permit on my aeroplane. And by the way...MY aeroplane means it belongs to me. Not my instructor/mentor/second pilot/passenger/bla bla. |
"I am concerned that the Motion which has been advanced over Stewart Jackson's name is unclearly worded," "It is true to say that the Woodhams award to Tracey Curtis-Taylor was made by the LAA Awards Group, chaired by Harry Hopkins, on the basis of her flight to South Africa in a Stearman biplane. IIRC that mistake has appeared before in print. |
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