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Can anyone who was there say how many people attended?
Thanks. |
Originally Posted by ak7274
(Post 10288769)
Both motions were rejected HM.
A maximum of 950 votes were cast (82+389+202+277). It’s obvious that 112 people (389-277) thought that the award was justifiably rescinded, but either declined to vote against the restoration of the award or thought it should be reinstated anyway. Up to 120 people (202-82) declined to say whether the original motion was correct or, conversely, thought it was justified but she should have it back anyway. I think. |
Today's Times Online.
A woman pilot known as the Bird in a Biplane was brought down to earth with a bump yesterday after losing a battle to retain a trophy she won for an expedition over Africa. Tracey Curtis-Taylor, 56, told The Times that she was resigning from the Light Aircraft Association and would re-register her vintage aircraft overseas in protest. The row has divided pilots as Ms Curtis-Taylor and her allies accused detractors of being “out-of-date misogynists” while critics denounced her for making false claims about her achievements.The argument began after Ms Curtis-Taylor paid tribute to the celebrated 1920s aviator Mary Heath in 2013 by flying from Cape Town in South Africa to Goodwood in West Sussex in a 1942 Boeing Stearman plane.The next year she was awarded the Light Aircraft Association’s Woodhams Trophy for her achievement. She was then stripped of the prize in 2016 after the expedition’s logistics manager, Sam Rutherford, accused her of claiming that it was a solo voyage when she was frequently accompanied in her two-seater plane by her mechanic, Ewald Gritsch. She was said to have described her expedition as a “solo flight” at a public event in Herne Bay in Kent and failed to correct similar claims in the media, including a documentary shown on BBC Four. Ms Curtis-Taylor admitted that she had been wrong to describe her trip as a solo expedition but said that it was a one-off mistake and not the basis of the award. Yesterday she and her allies put forward two motions at the association’s annual general meeting at Sywell Aerodrome in Northamptonshire, either of which would have returned the award to her.One proposed by Stewart Jackson, vice-president of the association, described the 2016 decision as “vindictive [and] irrational” and blamed the board for “errors of judgment”. It added: “Injustice was done. Let’s admit we made a bad mistake that made — and will continue to make us, if we don’t do the right thing — look like an out-of-date club of misogynists.” Voters in the association, which is 95 per cent male and has an average age of 61, were untroubled by the risk to their image. They voted against the motion by 389 to 82, with 87 per cent of votes being cast remotely. A second motion with more moderate wording was also voted down, by 277 to 202.Ms Curtis-Taylor said that she no longer wished to have anything to do with the association and would be registering her vintage Ryan Recruit plane in America. “It’s ignorance. It’s discrimination. This is how women have been closed out of aviation,” she said.“I’ve been a member for 14 years [but]they do not value what I’m doing. I am finished. This was two years of trying to right a wrong but the bigger struggle [to promote women in aviation] goes on.”Mr Rutherford, a former army officer who fell out with Ms Curtis-Taylor during the Africa expedition, said that he had warned her not to accept awards.“I contacted her twice. I said: ‘Keep going with whatever you’re doing but if you’re offered awards, please decline them.’ ” He admitted that he had engaged in an online campaign to encourage people to vote against her. “It’s fairly clear that both sides of the argument have been very active in trying to rally support,” he said.“I’m all for more women coming into aviation — my wife and my daughter fly. They don’t need some sort of false support for that. It reduces the real achievements out there.”
Worth noting the part about " Ms Curtis-Taylor said that she no longer wished to have anything to do with the association and would be registering her vintage Ryan Recruit plane in America." I hear they have hangarage at Winslow, AZ. I'm sure the owner of the FBO would welcome TCT with open arms. |
Ms Curtis-Taylor admitted that she had been wrong Ms Curtis-Taylor said that she no longer wished to have anything to do with the association Perhaps now the LAA can get back to what matters. |
I wonder if her outrage will force the good lady to register her Stearman alongside her Ryan on the US registry?
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Quite the most remarkable response from Miss Curtis-Taylor on the LAA forum AGM thread: it would again seem to be playing the victim card as everyone else is wrong but her :hmm:
by Tracey Curtis-Taylor » Sun Oct 21, 2018 11:58 pm Might is right, of course. Morally and logically the majority of LAA members were just as wrong as they were in 2016. 1. The AGM should not have been used in 2016 as a vehicle for the venting of a private grievance. Members failed to take the opportunity to put that right in 2018. 2. The Chairman should not have condoned the 2016 motion; it usurped the functions of the Awards Committee. If the membership wanted the Committee to review and/or change its 2014 Woodhams Award that is what the motion should have said. 3. In any event, the Chairman should not have rewritten the motion just because its authors couldn’t manage to come up with one that was not libellous. 4. And indeed what he came up with should not have been gone before the AGM, not only because of (2) above, but also because the proposition that the Woodhams Award to me had brought the LAA ‘into disrepute’ was nonsense; it was based on neither reasoning nor evidence. 5. The more perceptive Board members realised before the 2016 AGM that what was proposed was morally and legally unsound. Their advice and objections were rejected by the Chairman and they either walked away or changed their tune. 6. The 2018 motion that the 2016 proceedings were unjust and unjustified was irrefutably correct. It was not about whether members liked or trusted me; it meant what the words said. Its rejection simply demonstrates that the majority either did not understand procedural form or chose not to. 7. The Boys’ Club should feel collectively ashamed of its behaviour. I have no doubt that a few members at least, including some who voted against the 2018 motions, will realise that they have not done well. |
Well done the LAA, it has surely been a hard time for you all, but truth has prevailed.
Since TC-T is writing a book, might a suggestion that Sam and Jay might collaborate on a book, titled say "Bird in a Biplane - The Real Story". Certainly make good reading, even without the lady's spin, and the publicity has already been done. |
I hope the LAA responds to TCT's latest attacks in the papers this morning. Not only is calling the Association an old men's club and its members misogynists defamatory, but also has the potential to put women off from joining. Given that TCT's stated aims include promoting aviation to women, she really has made a meal of this, to put it midly.
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Originally Posted by jez d
(Post 10289160)
I hope the LAA responds to TCT's latest attacks in the papers this morning. Not only is calling the Association an old men's club and its members misogynists defamatory, but also has the potential to put women off from joining. Given that TCT's stated aims include promoting aviation to women, she really has made a meal of this, to put it midly.
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Maybe a few of the ladies on PPRuNe who have been active in this thread could pen a letter to the newspapers in question giving their own side of the LAA experience?
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T C-T could have been a force for good within UK GA. She is forceful and presents well, and has the ability to rouse the media and garner publicity. Forget the feminist issue, thousands of women fly every day, either for pleasure or work. But to have had her involved in the LAA Young Eagles programme, or any of the schemes from HCAP and I doubt there'd be a school child in Britain who wouldn't have been exposed to general aviation and all it's possibilities. (and I imply absolutely no criticism of the LAA team who already work bloody hard on and donate so much to the Young Eagles scheme)
Instead she chose to follow a long out of date agenda, attacked the very organisation that does so much for GA and led a lot of people right up the garden path, and has brought the LAA into disrepute in doing so. I owe a huge debt to PFA/LAA members who helped me into the career I have enjoyed so much, people who gave me their time, advice, flying hours and the occasional arm around the shoulder. I certainly wouldn't have made it without all of them. Reading her statement on the LAA website I believe this is a long way from over. Rumour has it she had a barrister with her yesterday, I fully expect her to heed the advice of her "friends" and go legal, and the LAA will have lost the talent she could have brought to it if she had really thought things through in the first place, a stack of money to lawyers, and had it's reputation trashed in the press, because tomorrow's chip wrappings do stick in the minds of people. T C-T, you have been monumentally daft. If you had used your talents and energies for the good of young people and GA you would have had plenty of highly deserved, respected awards and the immense satisfaction of a job very well done. Instead this squalid fight will go on, with everybody losing. And that really saddens me. SND |
Originally Posted by Katamarino
(Post 10289180)
Maybe a few of the ladies on PPRuNe who have been active in this thread could pen a letter to the newspapers in question giving their own side of the LAA experience?
Jack |
I would love to read the Times article but it's stuck behind a pay-wall and they want credit card info for the one-month "free" trial! Very dubious...
I just realised it's a few posts above mine, whoops. |
Available on a post on the LAA Forum at the moment.
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Here's the post from the LAA forum, thanks to L21-B
"A woman pilot known as the Bird in a Biplane was brought down to earth with a bump yesterday after losing a battle to retain a trophy she won for an expedition over Africa. Tracey Curtis-Taylor, 56, told The Times that she was resigning from the Light Aircraft Association and would re-register her vintage aircraft overseas in protest. The row has divided pilots as Ms Curtis-Taylor and her allies accused detractors of being “out-of-date misogynists” while critics denounced her for making false claims about her achievements.The argument began after Ms Curtis-Taylor paid tribute to the celebrated 1920s aviator Mary Heath in 2013 by flying from Cape Town in South Africa to Goodwood in West Sussex in a 1942 Boeing Stearman plane.The next year she was awarded the Light Aircraft Association’s Woodhams Trophy for her achievement. She was then stripped of the prize in 2016 after the expedition’s logistics manager, Sam Rutherford, accused her of claiming that it was a solo voyage when she was frequently accompanied in her two-seater plane by her mechanic, Ewald Gritsch. She was said to have described her expedition as a “solo flight” at a public event in Herne Bay in Kent and failed to correct similar claims in the media, including a documentary shown on BBC Four. Ms Curtis-Taylor admitted that she had been wrong to describe her trip as a solo expedition but said that it was a one-off mistake and not the basis of the award. Yesterday she and her allies put forward two motions at the association’s annual general meeting at Sywell Aerodrome in Northamptonshire, either of which would have returned the award to her.One proposed by Stewart Jackson, vice-president of the association, described the 2016 decision as “vindictive [and] irrational” and blamed the board for “errors of judgment”. It added: “Injustice was done. Let’s admit we made a bad mistake that made — and will continue to make us, if we don’t do the right thing — look like an out-of-date club of misogynists.” Voters in the association, which is 95 per cent male and has an average age of 61, were untroubled by the risk to their image. They voted against the motion by 389 to 82, with 87 per cent of votes being cast remotely. A second motion with more moderate wording was also voted down, by 277 to 202.Ms Curtis-Taylor said that she no longer wished to have anything to do with the association and would be registering her vintage Ryan Recruit plane in America. “It’s ignorance. It’s discrimination. This is how women have been closed out of aviation,” she said.“I’ve been a member for 14 years [but]they do not value what I’m doing. I am finished. This was two years of trying to right a wrong but the bigger struggle [to promote women in aviation] goes on.”Mr Rutherford, a former army officer who fell out with Ms Curtis-Taylor during the Africa expedition, said that he had warned her not to accept awards.“I contacted her twice. I said: ‘Keep going with whatever you’re doing but if you’re offered awards, please decline them.’ ” He admitted that he had engaged in an online campaign to encourage people to vote against her. “It’s fairly clear that both sides of the argument have been very active in trying to rally support,” he said.“I’m all for more women coming into aviation — my wife and my daughter fly. They don’t need some sort of false support for that. It reduces the real achievements out there.” Talk about a thwarted sense of entitlement, not an ambassador for all that is good in GA! |
It would be interesting for a journalist to compare and contrast this with the achievements of Shaesta Waiz.
Rather than spending money on lawyers perhaps TCT could show her support for inspiring women in aviation by making a donation to Dreams Soar? Dreams Soar | Global solo flight for STEM |
The LAA forum thread regarding the AGM is now locked and members have been asked to move on, which I personally agree with. Here is the closing statement from Steve Slater.
Hi all, You'll see below the official LAA statement regarding the votes at the 2018 AGM. While there have been some well expressed opinions on both sides of this argument, I think its time we now moved on. I've therefore asked that our moderator closes this thread. Thanks for all your contributions - and for contributing to an orderly and respectful AGM. Steve Slater. STATEMENT REGARDING THE LAA AGM. 21st OCTOBER 2018. At the 2018 AGM, two motions were voted on by members regarding the award of the Bill Woodhams Trophy in 2014 to Tracey Curtis-Taylor. This was subsequently rescinded following a member’s motion in 2016. The Light Aircraft Association makes a number of such awards each year, recognising flying activities, services to fellow members and the quality of their work on either home-built aircraft or vintage types restored to flight by its 7,500-plus members. The recipients are selected by a small committee of unpaid volunteers. The Bill Woodhams Trophy for navigation is just one of this wide range of awards. The two motions placed at the 2018 AGM sought to debate the rescinding of the award, and the matter was discussed at the AGM with both written and verbal submissions from both sides, including from Tracey Curtis-Taylor in person. The first Motion, seeking acknowledgement that the rescinding of the award was inappropriate, was defeated by 389 member votes to 82. The second Motion, seeking the reinstatement of the award, was defeated by 277 member votes to 202. The removal of the award therefore stands and the matter is now considered closed. The LAA has no further comment to make on the award or its recipient. ENDS |
Originally Posted by Above The Clouds
(Post 10289393)
The LAA forum thread regarding the AGM is now locked and members have been asked to move on, which I personally agree with. Here is the closing statement from Steve Slater.
Maybe its now time to close this thread and consign it to the history books. Not happy about the LAAs decision to close their thread. |
What a great inspiration there Clare. That is what it should all be about. Maybe TCT could donate the profits of her book and films to a good cause. That would go a very long way towards her restoring some credibility.
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Maybe its now time to close this thread and consign it to the history books |
Looks like a good plan, most threads eventually "run out of steam" as people move on to other topics.
Some times long dormant threads can be revived if a new piece of information comes to light. |
I for one am immensely relieved that it is all over and absolutely delighted that she made the right decision about terminating her membership !
I found the 2016 AGM to be a bit intimidating , when as Barry Tempest's seconder we were placed in a room packed to beyond capacity , with many of the occupants fairly obviously being Tracey supporters . Had I known then the devious 'plan B' she was cooking up , I think I would've run a bloody mile. I was approached in private regarding this years AGM and asked whether I would wish to stand up and say some words to counter the two motions being proposed by Mr S. Jackson and Mr D. Mole , but with view to the fact that there are still one or two Tracey supporters out there who didn't like the fact that Barry and I brought this up originally , I politely declined . Luckily , I was rostered to work yesterday [AGM day] and took great satisfaction that a Barbados bound A330 and a Florida bound B.747 were heading off across the pond at AGM time , both with my signature on their respective CRS's and I also had made a further contribution to aviation by sending my proxy votes of definite 'NO's' in 10 days previously . So altogether a very fulfilling day . Despite Curtis-Taylors shameful conduct , both before the AGM and after , I don't believe that any of it will have the slightest effect on the LAA and what it is here to do . It has after all been doing its wonderful work for 70yrs ! The bigoted , misogynist thing just shows her for the one trick pony that she is . Attempting to discredit ones adversaries is just about the oldest trick in the book ! The reason that there are less female pilots/engineers is simply because many females are not that interested in that type of thing . But for the ones who are , the prospects are limitless and the opportunities are many. The last thing that the genuine and professional world of aviation needs , is some ranting , raving freeloader bluffing her way through by pretending that 'us girls' are all being discriminated against . It's a high pressure sales-pitch for an imagined commodity that doesn't exist !
Originally Posted by Pilot DAR
(Post 10289421)
it's okay to just let it go quiet too!
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Hey Pilot DAR,,,,don't forget what happened the last time it all went quiet ......[:lol] |
We must give credit to Pprune Towers and the mods on here without whom this sad saga would never have seen the light of day. The LAA and Flyer Forum have locked any further discussion. A sad reflection on how some want to stifle discussion especially when it involves the UK’s only grass roots flying organisation. In my opinion the time has come to dump old fashioned royal patrons such as Prince Michael and his blazer brigade. Prince Harry or William are true pilots and better examples of public service leadership. |
To be fair, the Prince didn't put his name on the motions, but stayed aloof: letting the LAA due processes work their way through.
I really didn't see as a patron how he could take sides, nor without being able by protocol to answer every innuendo. In cases like this he is is a vulnerable sitting target. Unless you REALLY know different ? mike hallam.
Originally Posted by Mike Flynn
(Post 10289695)
We must give credit to Pprune Towers and the mods on here without whom this sad saga would never have seen the light of day. The LAA and Flyer Forum have locked any further discussion. A sad reflection on how some want to stifle discussion especially when it involves the UK’s only grass roots flying organisation. In my opinion the time has come to dump old fashioned royal patrons such as Prince Michael and his blazer brigade. Prince Harry or William are true pilots and better examples of public service leadership. |
Originally Posted by Mike Flynn
(Post 10289695)
A sad reflection on how some want to stifle discussion especially when it involves the UK’s only grass roots flying organisation. |
I think the LAA just want to draw a line under it all and move on with what they do best.
As for the Flyer forum, I just think they have had enough of the constantly repeated posts |
As one female resigns from the LAA, another one joins... I've been meaning to join for ages but thanks to all this publicity I've finally been prompted into doing it! My small contribution to help push the gender/age stats in the other direction :ok: |
After 36 years of flying I have also just joined the LAA for the first time. |
Originally Posted by Mike Flynn
(Post 10289695)
We must give credit to Pprune Towers and the mods on here without whom this sad saga would never have seen the light of da The LAA and Flyer Forum have locked any further discussion. A sad reflection on how some want to stifle discussion especially when it involves the UK’s only grass roots flying organisation. In my opinion the time has come to dump old fashioned royal patrons such as Prince Michael and his blazer brigade. Prince Harry or William are true pilots and better examples of public service leadership. I do not understand why the thread on the LAA forum cannot stay open. Seems open discussion is not welcome within the Association. Wonder what they have to hide?. Move on .... yes. Stifle discussion ....no. Well done to Pprune. Lets hope everyone plays by the rules so the mods do not have cause to lock these threads. They will eventually slow down as folk do move on. |
Originally Posted by Littlest Hobo
(Post 10289729)
As one female resigns from the LAA, another one joins... I've been meaning to join for ages but thanks to all this publicity I've finally been prompted into doing it! My small contribution to help push the gender/age stats in the other direction :ok: |
I’ve followed this sad saga since it started and I have on occasion contributed to the discussions. I feel that the defeat of the motions was the desirable outcome for the LAA, but I would be interested to hear a summary of what transpired at the AGM. Were there speeches for and against the motions and if so, who made them? Did TCT participate? Were there any objections on procedural grounds? |
Originally Posted by India Four Two
(Post 10289994)
I’ve followed this sad saga since it started and I have on occasion contributed to the discussions. I feel that the defeat of the motions was the desirable outcome for the LAA, but I would be interested to hear a summary of what transpired at the AGM. Were there speeches for and against the motions and if so, who made them? Did TCT participate? Were there any objections on procedural grounds? |
I see that the good lady continues her rant post the LAA AGM, on line in the Telegraph today.
"Pointing to a photo of her 1941 Ryan Recruit, the prototype of a trainer aeroplane from World War Two, aviator Tracey Curtis-Taylor is grim-faced. “I’ll be removing that aircraft from the British register because of the way I’ve been treated,” she fumes. “I’m washing my hands and walking away.” The self-styled “Bird in a Biplane” has been the subject of contention among Britain’s Light Aircraft Association (LAA), which last weekend stripped her for good of a prestigious award she received in 2014 after an expedition from Cape Town to Goodwood in a vintage carrier. Curtis-Taylor, 56, says she is the victim of a group of bitter and misogynistic trolls who waged an aggressive campaign to undermine... etc.etc" |
Every time this sordid affair dies a death, she brings it back to life with more deceit.
Her detractors’ gripe is that she has been feted for flying solo when in fact guests joined her on board during the Africa trip. Guests? That's for the very few local flights when Ewald (20K+ hour flight instructor) wasn't up front. She's incorrigible. I want to see the lawyers letters she had written to the LAA - anyone else interested? |
Oh yes, I would love to see them letters. She has said she was happy to have them published so why not.
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That would be the Ryan that has been out of Permit to fly for the last 4 years then ?
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Welcome to the LAA 'Littlest Hobo'.
My partner, a lady who is an enthusiastic pilot , notes she has had nothing but support and encouragement from the LAA itself and its members. She hasn't encountered any notable male bias. Biscuit 74 |
Yet again the article and the sycophantic comments completely miss the deception. Because she is an expert at this type of PR, once again she steers it to 'trolling' and 'misogyny'. Wouldn't it be nice, for once, to have a piece which stated, 'She said it would be solo, she continued to say it was solo and only changed her tune when caught out'?
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I received this PM today and publish without revealing the sender and have censored the names of those mentioned below. It is more than I can stand to see this woman continue to successfully manipulate a succession of journalists (the Telegraph yesterday being the latest) Unfortunately I do not have any credentials as a female pilot so I do not feel that anything I say carries much weight. And TCT has used that tool of crying "sexism" to silence all males on this subject. I am wondering if you know any who would be prepared to come out and avow that TCT is the very last female to be held up as a role model for young women. I have a close friend who has known TCT for a very long time. The irony of a woman whose access to aviation has come through being the "partner" of rich men - first of all XXX who bought her her Ryan and then XXX who funded the Stearman - who has not actually earned her own living for decades, and who can only fly anywhere far afield without her hand being held by a man, being held up as a feminist icon is just UNBEARABLE!!! Please, please - if you know any female pilots - can you persuade one of them to come out and object to this cmplete travesty? |
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