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I understand that if multiple flights are used to make up the hour, they have to be with the same instructor. At least that was what my instructor told me during my last biennial flight with him.
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I understand that if multiple flights are used to make up the hour, they have to be with the same instructor. At least that was what my instructor told me during my last biennial flight with him. |
fireflybob, your last two paragraphs are incorrect for a LAPL, which is what this thread orignally covered.
As already said, unlike Class Ratings on other licenses, the LAPL has no specific expiry date and instead has a rolling validity. The differences between Revalidation requirements for Ratings are in my - unofficial but heavily reviewed - table here (hopefully link works after recent Dropbox changes): https://www.dropbox.com/s/49r8nvlvpt...E_1-4.pdf?dl=0 |
DaveW, thanks for the correction - it's been a long day - I have deleted last 2 paragraphs!
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Originally Posted by fireflybob
(Post 9719086)
I believe the hour has to be completed in a maximum of 3 separate flights (with the same instructor).
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Here you go:
Originally Posted by UK CAA
Revalidation
To revalidate the rating you must complete the following: [Content deleted for simplicity] 12 hours of flight time in single-engine (single-pilot) aeroplane within the 12 months preceding the rating’s expiry date, including the following: 6 hours as pilot-in-command (PIC) 12 take-offs and landings a training flight of at least 1 hour (or a maximum of three totalling 1 hour) with the same flight instructor or class rating instructor. [Content deleted for simplicity] Again, this is my bold in the equivalent CAA page for the LAPL (that you quoted in the OP):
Originally Posted by UK CAA
Keeping your licence current, and what to do if you don’t meet the requirements
The privileges of your licence will only remain valid if you have completed, in the last 24 months, as pilot of an aeroplane or TMG: At least 12 hours flight time as PIC, including 12 take-offs and landings; and Refresher training of at least 1 hour of total flight time with an instructor. As ever, finding the actual document and paragraph is a pain, but the link above does reflect what I've seen before in [CAP804? Part-FCL? An IN? Several official places, anyway] and the links are to a CAA web page so hopefully meets your needs unless you've a demand for a formally supportable legal reference! |
Originally Posted by BossEyed
(Post 9719273)
Here you go:
Above is for the SEP Rating, and the bold is mine. Again, this is my bold in the equivalent CAA page for the LAPL (that you quoted in the OP): SEP Rating and LAPL are both EASA qualifications, and I suggest it is therefore logical to assume that the intent is the same in both statements, despite the frustratingly different wording. Otherwise, why would the LAPL statement include the word "total"? It would be redundant. As ever, finding the actual document and paragraph is a pain, but the link above does reflect what I've seen before in [CAP804? Part-FCL? An IN? Several official places, anyway] and the links are to a CAA web page so hopefully meets your needs unless you've a demand for a formally supportable legal reference! "Total" could be to allow for multiple flights and "an instructor" does not necessarily mean the same instructor imho. I have now found some very useful guidance on the LAPL on the internet. On finding the EASA documents that make the rules, it starts by stating "It's incredibly confusing." I have looked at the three documents it cites (2 EASA and 1 CAA) and essentially cannot find any more information than in my first post. On validity, it further states that "There's HUGE confusion about LAPLs by pilots who have them!" Very true. Anyway, I have e-mailed the author and will post here when/if I get a definitive answer. |
I have also found further guidance by the author under "how do I revalidate my 2 year S.E.P. rating on my Certificate of Experience?"
It states "Since EASA rules came in the hour can be made up of 1, 2, or 3 separate flights providing all the flights counted to make up the hour are with the same instructor.." Not sure yet if this also applies to the LAPL, but looks like you might be right BossEyed. Will let you know. |
The CAA quote comes from an old derogation which appeared in CAP804 shortly before EASA changed from the old 'single flight of at least an hour' to 'cumulative total of an hour's refresher flying'. This followed lobbying by IAOPA (Europe).
I don't believe that the CAA's more restrictive '3 flights max, all with the same instructor' still applies - if it does, it would be blatant auric embellishment*! *They hate the term 'gold plating'! |
"There's HUGE confusion about LAPLs by pilots who have them!" Very true. |
Originally Posted by cotterpot
(Post 9720381)
Well I'm not confused. I find it fairly simple. You can also use something like Logbook.aero if you can't add up and count back 24 months.
In any event, this discussion has revealed a more important question: In the case of a LAPL, can the hour with an instructor be carried out over multiple flights and do these need to be with the SAME instructor? Any further thoughts? |
Not that I have a dog in this fight - got an EASA PPL(A)
But I created a basic spreadsheet that calculates this 'within 24 months' status. Others have done the same. It isn't difficult to keep track of this and the rule is quite straightforward However I do feel that the LAPL should have a ratings arrangement like the PPL(A) so everyone has a date they can work to. It is obvious that a fair number of pilots are still trying to work to PPL rating rules and failing to recognise it is different. At our airfield I've seen pilots almost in tears when they realise they've not understood the rules and need to fly as a student for a period |
I had a friend ask me about keeping his LAPL current. He's done an hour's flight with an instructor who asked him to hand over his licence and logbook and complete an SRG 1157 form (an examiner form for a skills test or revalidation). He was well inside the 2 yearly timescale so it would not have been a test.
He was told that because the instructor was not an examiner his logbook and form needed to be countersigned by the school examiner. This sounds like complete BS to me. But are instructors really being told to do this? |
AFAIK, no skills test, revalidation or any form signed by an examiner is required as long as the rolling validity requirement is met ie
He has completed, in the last 24 months, as pilot of an aeroplane or TMG: At least 12 hours flight time as PIC, including 12 take-offs and landings; and Refresher training of at least 1 hour of total flight time with an instructor. However, it is probably wise to have the instructor sign the training time in his log book. |
Originally Posted by robin
(Post 9866803)
I had a friend ask me about keeping his LAPL current. He's done an hour's flight with an instructor who asked him to hand over his licence and logbook and complete an SRG 1157 form (an examiner form for a skills test or revalidation). He was well inside the 2 yearly timescale so it would not have been a test.
He was told that because the instructor was not an examiner his logbook and form needed to be countersigned by the school examiner. This sounds like complete BS to me. But are instructors really being told to do this? |
Thanks for that. It supports what I told him. But still can't understand why the (very experienced) instructor who should know this has told him a complete fabrication.
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" can't understand why the (very experienced) instructor ..."
Nor me. Instructors are wonderful people, but like the rest of us make mistakes. The rules are not the problem. Complexity and confusion comes from what the rules aren't, from what senior people like this imagine them to be. LAPL holders have a wonderful system, no examiners, no paperwork, responsibility rests on the pilots shoulders, nowhere else, just as it should be. You will understand why I do not support replacing this with something requiring examiners, paperwork, etc. |
Originally Posted by 460
(Post 9867184)
" can't understand why the (very experienced) instructor ..."
Nor me. Instructors are wonderful people, but like the rest of us make mistakes. The rules are not the problem. Complexity and confusion comes from what the rules aren't, from what senior people like this imagine them to be. LAPL holders have a wonderful system, no examiners, no paperwork, responsibility rests on the pilots shoulders, nowhere else, just as it should be. You will understand why I do not support replacing this with something requiring examiners, paperwork, etc. |
Keeping a LAPL current
Given that the LAPL is a European licence, does anyone know if a UK LAPL holder can do the biennial refresher hour with a foreign instructor in his European country of residence? What proof is supplied that this refresher requirement has been completed (log book entry, separate piece of paper, .....) ?
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Originally Posted by nmarshal
(Post 10185851)
Given that the LAPL is a European licence, does anyone know if a UK LAPL holder can do the biennial refresher hour with a foreign instructor in his European country of residence? What proof is supplied that this refresher requirement has been completed (log book entry, separate piece of paper, .....) ?
However, almost certain that no separate piece of paper required and probably not the instructor's signature in logbook either! |
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