Keeping a LAPL current
 

The CAA website states:

"The privileges of your licence will only remain valid if you have completed, in the last 24 months, as pilot of an aeroplane or TMG:
At least 12 hours flight time as PIC, including 12 take-offs and landings; and
Refresher training of at least 1 hour of total flight time with an instructor."

How exactly is the "in last 24 months" interpreted and where can I confirm this?

This is from a letter from the CAA Licencing HQ to me today - might be useful ?
mike hallam.

I am assuming (given the information you provide on your licence and the type of aircraft you fly) that we are talking about a UK PPL with an SEP rating attached to it? Assuming that is the case, the short answer to your question is that you still need to meet the revalidation requirements for the SEP rating. These are now located in the first entry of Table 1, Chapter 1, Part 3 to Schedule 8 of the ANO 2016. These are the same requirements (incorporated by reference into the ANO) as set out in FCL.740.A (b)(1) of the EASA Aircrew Regulation for an SEP rating attached to an EASA licence:



(b) Revalidation of single-pilot single-engine class ratings.

(1) Single-engine piston aeroplane class ratings and TMG ratings. For revalidation of single pilot

single-engine piston aeroplane class ratings or TMG class ratings the applicant shall:

(i) within the 3 months preceding the expiry date of the rating, pass a proficiency

check in the relevant class in accordance with Appendix 9 to this Part with an

examiner; or

(ii) within the 12 months preceding the expiry date of the rating, complete 12 hours

of flight time in the relevant class, including:

— 6 hours as PIC,

— 12 take-offs and 12 landings, and

— refresher training of at least 1 hour of total flight time with a flight instructor (FI)

or a class rating instructor (CRI). Applicants shall be exempted from this refresher

training if they have passed a class or type rating proficiency check, skill test or

assessment of competence in any other class or type of aeroplane.

Thanks for posting this, Mike, but I do not think it answers my question.

Guess I will have to continue trawling through vast EASA documents!

LAPL recency requirements are very different from EASA/CAA SEP rating revalidation requirements.

How many different ways are there to interpret '24 months'? Every day that you wish to go flying you should be able to look back through your logbook & find enough flights to satisfy the 12 hours pic, 12 take-offs & landings & 1 hr refresher training with an EASA FI. If, on the day that you wish to fly, you cannot find enough flights within the previous 24 calendar months to satisfy the requirements you will have to:

Look back on a calendar exactly 24 months from the day on which you wish to fly and check your log book from that date to see if you have fulfilled all the requirements.

Ah but today is 23rd March 2017. Am I legal if the hour with the instructor was on 23/3/15 or does it need to be at least on 24/3/15?

Does it even depend on the time of day that the hour with the instructor was done 24 months ago?

PS This is not a theoretical question!

The answer is don't leave it so long before a flight with instructor is required.

A year is 1 Jan to 31 Dec so 12 months would be the same and so would 24 months.
24 months back from today - 23/03 - would be 24/03

I agree but weather/ground conditions have conspired to make me leave it very late (and annoyingly, about 18 months ago, I did another 50 minutes with an instructor so I only really need to do 10 minutes!).

Your interpretation would be mine too but do you have a written source?

if a LAPL holder does

"(1) undertake a proficiency check with an examiner before they resume the exercise of the privileges of their licence;"

Does that reset the 24 month clock, or do they still have to meet the hours and take off & landing requirements?

eg. A LAPL holder not flown for two years. He or she then passes a Proficiency check. The following day said LAPL holder wants to go flying. What then?

If you do not meet these requirements you will need to:

1 Complete a proficiency check with an examiner before you exercise the privileges of the licence; or
2 Complete the additional flight time or take-offs and landings to meet the requirements above, flying dual or solo, under the supervision of an instructor.


To me it would seem to be one or the other means good to go.

The way I've always read it.
My ssea rating expires on 31 June of odd numbered years, 11--13--15--17 etc.
Counting the hours flown from July first 15 to June 31-17 needs to be at least 12 plus 1 hour with an instructor. The hour with the instructor can be anywhere within the same 24 months. Theoretically 2 July 15 would do.
If these hours and instruction criteria are met then the rating is renewed on its rolling anniversary.
If I do not meet the criteria I would need a proficiency test from an examiner, the date of that test would then reset the new anniversary date for renewal.
With the hours reset to zero.
I can then fly from that date legally for 24 months, or I can fly legally the next day, then not at all until the day before the anniversary, take the hour instruction and fly for 12 hours that day and be legal to continue for another 24 months.

As the requirement is currently written...

...if you don't meet the requirements of (a) then you must comply with (b) before next exercising the privileges of the licence, even if, as in Phororhacos's example, you have previously done so.

NPA 2014/29 includes the following revised wording to resolve the issue but is still languishing in the depths of the bureaucracy:

Or, as I understand. Obtain a nppl alongside your lapl and use that licence to complete the required hours :D

Thanks for all the input.

Although I am still not exactly sure how "in last 24 months" is interpreted, I think I have solved the problem by planning to do at least 10 minutes with an instructor at a local hard runway tomorrow. (My last hour or more with an instructor was 25/3/15 but I also did 50 minutes on 26/10/15. I have almost 200 hours PIC in last 24 months).

If they've started putting 31 days into June that's going to make it even more difficult for me to work out.

I'm bound to get something wrong, what do you want, perfection? Pity there's no smileys.

The easiest way to work out what flying can be included is to take the date you plan to fly, then add 1 to the days then subtract 1 or 2 from the years. So to fly legally today 24/03/2017 all flying can be included from 25/03/2015 or 2016 depending on 12 or 24 month window. On legal documents it always states a year and a day so thing happen on the same date every year.

:) :} :E :8 :O :D ;) :ok:

Just be aware the requirement states "Instructor", being singular. Make of it what you will, everyone else does.

I understand that if multiple flights are used to make up the hour, they have to be with the same instructor. At least that was what my instructor told me during my last biennial flight with him.

I believe the hour has to be completed in a maximum of 3 separate flights (with the same instructor).

fireflybob, your last two paragraphs are incorrect for a LAPL, which is what this thread orignally covered.

As already said, unlike Class Ratings on other licenses, the LAPL has no specific expiry date and instead has a rolling validity.

The differences between Revalidation requirements for Ratings are in my - unofficial but heavily reviewed - table here (hopefully link works after recent Dropbox changes):

https://www.dropbox.com/s/49r8nvlvpt...E_1-4.pdf?dl=0

DaveW, thanks for the correction - it's been a long day - I have deleted last 2 paragraphs!

Could someone direct me to written confirmation of this.

Here you go:

Above is for the SEP Rating, and the bold is mine.

Again, this is my bold in the equivalent CAA page for the LAPL (that you quoted in the OP):

SEP Rating and LAPL are both EASA qualifications, and I suggest it is therefore logical to assume that the intent is the same in both statements, despite the frustratingly different wording. Otherwise, why would the LAPL statement include the word "total"? It would be redundant.

As ever, finding the actual document and paragraph is a pain, but the link above does reflect what I've seen before in [CAP804? Part-FCL? An IN? Several official places, anyway] and the links are to a CAA web page so hopefully meets your needs unless you've a demand for a formally supportable legal reference!

Thanks for your comprehensive reply but I am not convinced.

"Total" could be to allow for multiple flights and "an instructor" does not necessarily mean the same instructor imho.

I have now found some very useful guidance on the LAPL on the internet. On finding the EASA documents that make the rules, it starts by stating "It's incredibly confusing." I have looked at the three documents it cites (2 EASA and 1 CAA) and essentially cannot find any more information than in my first post. On validity, it further states that "There's HUGE confusion about LAPLs by pilots who have them!" Very true.

Anyway, I have e-mailed the author and will post here when/if I get a definitive answer.

I have also found further guidance by the author under "how do I revalidate my 2 year S.E.P. rating on my Certificate of Experience?"

It states "Since EASA rules came in the hour can be made up of 1, 2, or 3 separate flights providing all the flights counted to make up the hour are with the same instructor.."

Not sure yet if this also applies to the LAPL, but looks like you might be right BossEyed.

Will let you know.

The CAA quote comes from an old derogation which appeared in CAP804 shortly before EASA changed from the old 'single flight of at least an hour' to 'cumulative total of an hour's refresher flying'. This followed lobbying by IAOPA (Europe).

I don't believe that the CAA's more restrictive '3 flights max, all with the same instructor' still applies - if it does, it would be blatant auric embellishment*!


*They hate the term 'gold plating'!

Well I'm not confused. I find it fairly simple. You can also use something like Logbook.aero if you can't add up and count back 24 months.

Counting back is the easy bit but not sure that "in last 24 months" has been precisely defined.

In any event, this discussion has revealed a more important question:

In the case of a LAPL, can the hour with an instructor be carried out over multiple flights and do these need to be with the SAME instructor?

Any further thoughts?

Not that I have a dog in this fight - got an EASA PPL(A)

But I created a basic spreadsheet that calculates this 'within 24 months' status. Others have done the same.

It isn't difficult to keep track of this and the rule is quite straightforward

However I do feel that the LAPL should have a ratings arrangement like the PPL(A) so everyone has a date they can work to. It is obvious that a fair number of pilots are still trying to work to PPL rating rules and failing to recognise it is different.

At our airfield I've seen pilots almost in tears when they realise they've not understood the rules and need to fly as a student for a period

I had a friend ask me about keeping his LAPL current. He's done an hour's flight with an instructor who asked him to hand over his licence and logbook and complete an SRG 1157 form (an examiner form for a skills test or revalidation). He was well inside the 2 yearly timescale so it would not have been a test.

He was told that because the instructor was not an examiner his logbook and form needed to be countersigned by the school examiner.

This sounds like complete BS to me. But are instructors really being told to do this?

AFAIK, no skills test, revalidation or any form signed by an examiner is required as long as the rolling validity requirement is met ie

He has completed, in the last 24 months, as pilot of an aeroplane or TMG:
At least 12 hours flight time as PIC, including 12 take-offs and landings; and
Refresher training of at least 1 hour of total flight time with an instructor.

However, it is probably wise to have the instructor sign the training time in his log book.

As you say, complete rubbish. As long as he has the required number of hours in the last 2 years, he just needs a 1 hour flight with an instructor (and afaik does not actually need a signature for this) and as long as his medical is current, that's it! No paperwork, no forms, no examiner, nothing. Your log book and medical cert are all you need.

Thanks for that. It supports what I told him. But still can't understand why the (very experienced) instructor who should know this has told him a complete fabrication.

" can't understand why the (very experienced) instructor ..."

Nor me. Instructors are wonderful people, but like the rest of us make mistakes.

The rules are not the problem.
Complexity and confusion comes from what the rules aren't, from what senior people like this imagine them to be.

LAPL holders have a wonderful system, no examiners, no paperwork, responsibility rests on the pilots shoulders, nowhere else, just as it should be.
You will understand why I do not support replacing this with something requiring examiners, paperwork, etc.

Quite. I have had LAPL(A) and LAPL(H) ever since they first came out and cannot see why more people don't take the same route. If like me you just want to fly day VFR in the UK (and Europe for that matter) it is ideal. The medical is also much simpler and lasts longer at my age. The freedom from the entire revalidation hassle is worth it on its own.

Keeping a LAPL current
 

Given that the LAPL is a European licence, does anyone know if a UK LAPL holder can do the biennial refresher hour with a foreign instructor in his European country of residence? What proof is supplied that this refresher requirement has been completed (log book entry, separate piece of paper, .....) ?

Not sure, although the rules state "an instructor" not "an UK instructor".
However, almost certain that no separate piece of paper required and probably not the instructor's signature in logbook either!