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-   -   Fly Bpl - Is It The Beginning Of The End??? (https://www.pprune.org/private-flying/519678-fly-bpl-beginning-end.html)

morecambebaz 13th May 2014 16:07

G-GALA
 
T/O 302mtrs grass well loaded are you nuts?

http://www.microlight.me.uk/Images/R...eld%5B1%5D.jpg

SpannerInTheWerks 15th May 2014 09:59


are you nuts?
if this report is correct and you add flying with bent propellors and shock loaded engines (reportedly), flying unserviceable aircraft (allegedly), advising people to fly unserviceable aircraft (fact), 'doctoring' aircraft documents (allegedly - but from a reliable source) then 'nuts' is hardly sufficient to describe the actions of this UK CAA approved flight instructor and examiner!!!

asitwas 15th May 2014 20:14

I don't get this if any or all of this has foundation then what the hell are the CAA well glove puppets for EASA doing in the guise of flight safety ? I know if we break wind out of turn the CAA want to know !

mad_jock 16th May 2014 09:19

Actually EASA have already dealt with a few legacy issue that the UK CAA failed to do anything about for absolutely years.

Ormond Beach which turned into flyeasa. There were literally hundreds if not thousands of complaints about the place and even evidence that skills test were done in an hour etc etc. The UK CAA did nothing.

EASA took over oversight and they were shut down pretty quick.

The only way the CAA will have you is if you play by the rules. If you are of the mind to step away from them they really don't seem to do anything about it.

MikeDutton 21st May 2014 18:48

Brigante Aviation agreement
 
Brigante Aviation is currently reviewing its operations at Blackpool Airport

The_Observer 21st May 2014 20:59

Fly Bpl - Is It The Beginning Of The End???
 
Mike when you've finished drinking, you might want to edit that post?

Nearly There 21st May 2014 21:39

Nice looking aircraft Brigante are developing...but am I reading this wrong?


The T-Tail is also interestingly designed. The double wing produces a lot of lift and deflects the airflow downwards. As a result, when in a deep stall, the horizontal tail section is still in undisturbed air, so avoiding problems some T-Tail aircraft have when in the deep stall.
If you're in a deep stall you aint producing lift therefor you will not be deflecting airflow downwards.

west lakes 21st May 2014 22:26


Tarn Farm at Rossall, Blackpool,
Can anyone help, I'm struggling to figure out how a strip situated near Pilling and Cockerham Sands could in any way have a location described as Blackpool.
Lancaster perhaps! Yep there it is: -

Cockerham Lancaster LA2 0ER United Kingdom
And though it is called Rossall Field I think you might find that Rossall is just outside Fleetwood
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rossall

PENNINE BOY 22nd May 2014 00:33

Mike!
Wake up please! I have not heard so much S--T for a long time!
You will not get a return out of flight training let alone a living wage!

Just talk to the people that have been involved with the owner of Fly BPL and invested large sums of money over 50K to purchase aircraft or pieces of Sh-T.

If his business ideas are supposed to be sound then why the hell does he keep going tits up using other peoples monies to support his and his lovers live styles?

Will be interesting to hear what happens to the Heli Centre when the alleged owner gets out of prison!

Time to move on! And let the last few flying clubs to make a living at EGNH before the place closes! :ugh:

I am still pissing in my pants at your post and comments on holding company's etc etc!

Fly BPL and or the owner has not got a pot to piss in! :D

west lakes 22nd May 2014 10:26

Oh and it looks as though Tarn Farm only has planning permission for a Microlight Centre , that might perhaps need sorting out prior to it being used for flight training.

cockney steve 22nd May 2014 10:44


Oh and it looks as though Tarn Farm only has planning permission for a Microlight Centre , that might perhaps need sorting out prior to it being used for flight training.
AHH!....but he didn't say just WHAT sort of flight-training!

Do pigs come under the weight-limit for Microlights?
Iam reminded of a London car-dealer.....Raymond Way was purported to have said, " they say a mug walks over London Bridge,every minute.,so I built my showroom next to it."
Mr Duffer...sorry, DUTTON has obviously visited this, and other Fora. He has done his due diligence and has decided that R. M. is a shining beacon of probity, integrity and business acumen. So be it.

The Emperor's new clothes are fabulous,just fools can't see them.

SpannerInTheWerks 22nd May 2014 11:55

I know it must be a wind-up but I'll humour Mike Dutton anyway:


We are pleased to announce that the aircraft, all the aircraft documentation and the report from the CAA were all completely satisfactory. We were especially pleased by the condition of the aircraft.
:}


we were given unprecedented access to the cash flow situation and we were entirely happy to pay over monies to Fly BPL
- there's one born every minute :}


our investment and pilot training will continue in the near future at the sites of Halfpenny Green, Wolverhampton
BEWARE - RED ALERT!!! - LOCK THE FUEL PUMPS AND HANGER DOORS :ugh:

Definition of 'brigante':


In modern Welsh the word braint means 'privilege, prestige' and comes from the same root brigantjā. Other cognates from the modern Celtic languages are: Welsh brenin 'king' (< *brigantīnos); Welsh/Cornish/Breton bri 'prestige, reputation, honour, dignity'
Prestige, reputation, honour, dignity' - that's RM to a tee!!! :mad:

PS: Brigante Aviation Limited (Company No. 08512464) formed on 1 May 2013 with Mike Dutton and Claire Robinson as directors - based at the Helicentre Blackpool. RM has (it seems) sidestepped direct involvement and I presume Blackpool Airport have no issues with Mr Dutton and Miss Robinson? Whilst Miss Robinson resides in Macclesfield, Mr Dutton is registered in the Helicentre Hangar?

Here we go again ...

SpannerInTheWerks 22nd May 2014 14:35

Brigante Aviation | Aircraft Design and Manufacture

and RM?!?!?!?

Mike, please, wake up and smell the coffee!

:=

Mikeod 22nd May 2014 14:46

Quote - '. We were especially pleased by the condition of the aircraft.'
Lol where do you start with that one.....

MikeDutton 22nd May 2014 17:11

Reply to Nearly There - deep stall
 
Correct, in that there is zero downdraught at zero airspeed. But "deep stall" happens before that point. The deflection is enough when the aircraft is stalling and the tail is in the wake of where the turbulence would be (if the aircraft were to only have the lower wing) to avoid the tail and retain some authority. If the airspeed is zero, then the T Tail will have no effect regardless of the configuration.


Technically our aircraft does not go into deep stall because the angle is so steep and the speed so slow when it happens we don't actually enter the shadow of the wing. However, the correct way to actually describe it in writing is somewhat difficult.


Thanks for the enquiry since it is always a pleasure to talk about tangibles.


Mike Dutton
Brigante Aviation (Trinidad and Tobago)

Maoraigh1 22nd May 2014 19:03

Does that business jet aircraft remind anyone of a crowd-sourced design - California based company?

The_Observer 23rd May 2014 16:35

Fly Bpl - Is It The Beginning Of The End???
 
Robert, does Mike Dutton know you've set up an account using his name? He'll be mad when he finds out.

boy entrant 24th May 2014 08:16

[QUOTE][/we are satisfied that the financial status of the training school is not dependent upon that dispute and in fact, we were given unprecedented access to the cash flow situation and we were entirely happy to pay over monies to Fly BPL. QUOTE]
does this mean you are taking over all the debts ?

FlyingOfficerKite 25th May 2014 18:55

I must say I find it hard to believe that Brigante Aviation and its directors would see FlyBpl as an attractive proposition?

As has been Posted previously, Robert Murgatroyd seems to have also formed an alliance with a gentleman based in Providenciales in the Turks and Caicos Islands.

Speaking to an aircraft owner recently, whose aircraft was one of a number impounded in the FlyBpl hangar for 6 months, the matter seems far from over insofar as Mr Murgatroyd's involvement and ongoing dispute with Blackpool Airport is concerned?

It seems that Mike Dutton is involved, the only question is: WHY?

India Four Two 26th May 2014 06:46


a gentleman based in Providenciales in the Turks and Caicos Islands
I doubt the gentleman is actually based there. Law offices on "Provo" are almost collapsing under the weight of the brass plates of companies registered there.

SpannerInTheWerks 26th May 2014 11:13

India Four Two

Maybe the reference is to my previous post?


Does anyone know the significance of the connection between RM and DMH, 74, director of British North West Airline Limited based at Richmond House, Leeward Highway, Providenciales, Turks and Caicos Islands, British West Indies?

Has Mr H exchanged the Flyde coast for the sub-tropical Atlantic coast?

Obviously a connection to RM - as he has recently become a director of Helicentre Blackpool Limited.

Although British North West Airline Limited is dissolved as far as Companies House is concerned (and had an address at British North West Suite, Blackpool Airport FY4 2QY until March 2009), Mr H describes himself as a senior pilot with said airline under his LinkedIn profile, based in the TCI.

He is also listed as being an Airline Transport Pilot living in Ottershaw, Surrey?

In view of recent carryings on, the timing of this change in directors at the Helicentre in obviously significant and maybe a prelude to future events?
I wonder if Mr Dutton is acquainted with Mr Harbuttle?

The_Observer 28th May 2014 15:41

Dealmonster!

Dealmonster: Learn to fly as you take in Spectacular Aerial Views with Fly Blackpool, starting from just £55

£55 for half an hour! Comes with a special introductory lesson on 'hedge trimming'. :E

That's from tonight's Gazette, page 7.

flybymike 28th May 2014 22:35

Offer no longer available apparently.

The_Observer 29th May 2014 14:25

Fly Bpl - Is It The Beginning Of The End???
 
No way! I wonder why that might be....

pirx 12th Jun 2014 15:42

The AAIB June bulletin includes a report on the accident to G-ATRR at Caernafon:

Air Accidents Investigation: Piper PA-28-140 Cherokee, G-ATRR

Amongst other things, the investigators found the rear wing spar attachment bolt ( or rather they didn't find it ) and some other interesting remarks include:

"A review of the aircraft’s maintenance revealed that the engine had exceeded its overhaul period by 1.7 years and there was no evidence to indicate that the actions required to extend this period by 20% had been carried out. There was also no evidence that a cylinder compression check had been carried out in the 229 hours since the last annual. The worksheets indicated that only a 50-hour check had been carried out when a 150-hour check was due, and investigations by the CAA revealed that this had occurred on two other aircraft owned by the operator. Further concerns about the maintenance of the operator’s aircraft resulted in the CAA suspending the Certificates of Airworthiness of eight of the operator’s aircraft."

Bluebear1872 14th Jun 2014 21:54

'kin' hell, not good!

India Four Two 15th Jun 2014 16:27

Ive just read the report. How is it possible that an aircraft is flying WITH REAR SPAR BOLTS MISSING? How can that happen?

If I was doing a pre-flight, would I notice any movement while checking the flaps? Would there be any distortion of the wing to fuselage fairings?

Mach Jump 15th Jun 2014 16:56


If I was doing a pre-flight, would I notice any movement while checking the flaps? Would there be any distortion of the wing to fuselage fairings?
No. I think that few, if any, unsuspecting PPLs, carrying out a normal pre-flight inspection, would spot the missing rear spar bolts, or notice anything amiss. :ooh:


MJ:ok:

horatio_b 19th Jun 2014 21:32

Going back to a previous accident....

Plane shouldn't have been in the air | Local | News - Radio Wave

SpannerInTheWerks 20th Jun 2014 13:22


The plane which crashed was the first plane I went solo in so it has a special place in my heart
, RM allegedly stated.

'I am really sorry for all the distress I have caused to the families of the pilots involved and for the loss of life' was a statement either not made by RM or not reported.

If there was ever a cause fo action for a charge of corporate manslaughter surely the RM 'events' fit the bill?

It is hard to imagine how it would be possible to flaunt the regulations and the law and get away with it all so lightly?!

It's a disgrace and a poor example of mal-administration by the UK CAA that they should have enabled RM to retain his flight instructor ratings and examiner authorisations following these accidents.

I know of one pilot whose wife banned him from flying at FlyBpl following a series of mishaps and near misses that occurred whilst flying those aircraft.

Unfortunately, as with most aspects of life, great trust is placed in those providing a service to the public - a public who expect the justice system and the regulators to discharge a duty of care to ensure that trust is well-placed.

Mikeod 20th Jun 2014 14:35

It really pi$$es me off when people in a position of trust get away with it.
£645 fine for endangering peoples lives?!?
So people have to actually die or be injured first for it to be deemed a serious offence, right got it

asitwas 24th Jun 2014 05:33

Is this guy operating from Wolverhampton now ?

mrmum 24th Jun 2014 06:52

He was operating from "a farmer's field near Pilling" day before yesterday, according to someone who had a TL with him in a Cherokee 140.

Flyingmac 24th Jun 2014 15:23

Corporate Manslaughter????? As far as I can gather, in the two fatal accidents the aircraft were not at fault. Am I missing something?

Bluebear1872 25th Jun 2014 16:54

Having read the report, it's a blatant disregard of the regulations, and an unsatisfactory way of performing maintenance on aircraft by the owner/operator! If the fine as someone stated is £645 then the CAA are a complete joke!
However, the real cause of the accident was the carb icing, something that all who read the report I hope will take note off, and will read CAA Safety Sense Leaflet 14 - I know I have. Safety Sense Leaflet 14: Piston Engine Icing | Publications | About the CAA
Also in the AAIB report it states 'There was evidence to suggest that the passenger had not been restrained by either a lap or shoulder harness at the time of the accident'. Aren't 'Hatches & harnesses' part of the downwind landing checks? Would the passenger have survived if he had been wearing his harness? Obviously the commander of the aircraft will have to live with his decisions and actions on the day of the flight for the rest of his life.
As for the owner/operator, I hope the CAA monitor his activities a lot closer to keep the rest of us safe from any further/future mal practice's.
For those that read this including the AAIB report, I hope we all take heed of the lessons learned before we next venture up in to the sky.









SpannerInTheWerks 27th Jun 2014 17:16


Corporate Manslaughter?????
Wing bolt missing, maintenance records forged (on good authority) = aircraft not airworthy = aircraft shouldn't be flying = aircraft should not have crashed = persons should not have been killed and injured.

The holes in the Swiss Cheese were lining up long before the accident.

Corporate responsibility for the state of the aircraft and, maybe, corporate responsibility for the accident?

The fact that carb icing may have been the immediate cause of the accident doesn't detract from the fact that the aircraft shouldn't have been on the approach to Caernarfon that day in the first place.

Flyingmac 28th Jun 2014 07:49

Can you say that had the pilot been flying a different aircraft the crash would not have happened? NO.

The same goes for Sipan flying into a Swiss mountain.

The crashes and the maintenance irregularities are separate entities. Unrelated to each other. I have no connection with RM but I do see red when confronted with flaming torch and pitchfork wielders.:ugh:

cockney steve 28th Jun 2014 11:03

@ FLYINGMAC A good, objective post, sir.:ok:

However, there is still the issue of CAA Airworthiness compliance, with the horrendous costs entailed, V sub-standard airworthiness and maintenance that wouldn't even meet LAA (or BMAA) standards.

The fact remains that this unscrupulous operation was defrauding anyone who paid to use their aircraft.

Where is the real oversight from the CAA?
Hopefully , they'll re-prioritise and pay closer attention to monitoring major transgressors, rather than worrying about wether a licence is still valid because it's been cut into pages?

Wood and trees come to mind.

SpannerInTheWerks 28th Jun 2014 12:49


Can you say that had the pilot been flying a different aircraft the crash would not have happened? NO.
Wrong. It is impossible to prove what would have happened in another aircraft.

Would the carb ice have formed in EXACTLY the same way? Impossible to say.

Simple fact is THAT aircraft should not have been there!

Jan Olieslagers 28th Jun 2014 15:44


Wrong. It is impossible to prove what would have happened in another aircraft.
Right. It is impossible to prove what would have happened in another aircraft.


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