Thanks, Martin.

It's rather remarkable that Nick can spring into action within moments of a public review being posted yet a customer can bang their head against a brick wall for months without any response.

Three emails? Others have said much the same. Did he ask you to remove your review? Did he offer a bribe?
Did he bleat about being a small business under too much pressure and being hit hard by negative reviews?

I'm sure that you'd much rather have emails full of pathetic excuses than the products you ordered or a refund (!). Right?? :*

Paul..

Just deleted my last copy, realised it had already been posted by another TP monitor! :ok:

I see someone else has had their review flagged, coincidentally followed up a few minutes after that by someone claiming they've "literally never had service this good".

I remain entirely unconvinced. Some of these positive...ahem....reviews....just read like adverts, with some most peculiar expressions.

How interesting.
After a run of negative reviews a glowing review has now appeared just minutes before responses from Bloviation to other reviews including an ALL-CAPS update to the reply to Mrs. Hopgood's complaint.


Paul..

Latest TP review by Mats Lintonsson which as usual was flagged away



And this is the rather unpleasant public reply to Mrs Hopgood, who was sent the wrong sized goods to start with. Proviation presumably employ forensic investigators now to prove when damage (if there actually was any at all) was caused.....looks like they're getting a bit rattled.

Our posting on here should not be taken as any kind of recognition of this forum, or thread, as an important media to share news to make announcements.

Previously, Proviation had written explanations in response to specific issues individuals had raised, and discussed the business in more detail.

It is widely advised that businesses do this, in order to bring a balance to an otherwise one-sided argument. However, on this forum, this seems to have been a mistake. Never before have we seen such small-minded vindictiveness; the retorts given to our previous posts offensive, and highly critical without a sound basis in fact.

There is an individual peddling ideas on this thread, and he is not in any position to do so. There are others (one, in particular) who The Company knew to have a malicious intent, given that he represents the interests of a competitor. Unfortunately the highly visible nature of this thread, thanks to the constant feeding-of-the-flames by such people meant that The Company invested time and money in approaching Internet Brands, and carrying out additional background research into the long-running authors of these remarks. The negative aspect is being drawn in to having to combat these comments when, naturally, employees would rather be managing our company.

Secondly the Company has established many, many facts about one other individual in particular. In some cases- as experienced in our store, there are no ‘real’ people behind some of the stories; just as the Company has experienced such ‘fake’ customers ordering products in our store. Luckily we grew wise to this in time.

Having paid little attention to the specific remarks made here (the good, business advice heeded by some very successful heads of retailers was to ignore it and focus on the business), recently the Company has had to study the remarks in order to present a case to a defamation law firm.

We are staggered that one person in particular can wage war against a company for 12 months. One should not flatter him to say he has built any kind of loyal following here and we respect those people who have read this thread, and have not been drawn in to posting responses. For those who have genuinely had a problem with Proviation, clearly we as individuals understand the human mindset and the need to appeal to a community for help, or advice, or simply to vent frustration.

On the whole, one can see a person who considers himself some form of warrior or heading a ‘cause’. Anyone who shares his view is deeply ‘misled’ rather than misguided. We will show more respect to him than he has shown to the company owner withholding his name from this statement. This person is not qualified in any way to perpetuate negative comments about Proviation Ltd. Here is not the place in which we will not go into any detail about this order, since it will result in a defence which will dilute the real issues here, and the purpose of this post.

However, all of the goods ordered were delivered. In cases where he found the manufacturer’s description of that product to be slightly inaccurate – a complaint never before received in previous years selling this item- the item was collected by Proviation and returned. A back-and-forth over a 1-2 week period, with Proviation sending couriers to exchange unwanted items only resulted in his deeply critical feedback on Trustpilot, and a personal attack, accusing the owner of supplying misleading information, and later of bribery. The true intent was, as anyone would do; seek to mitigate the effects of the feedback by asking for the opportunity to make things right. It was clear at the time that this individual felt very deeply about his views on the company, and his ‘cause’ began as he tried to make contact with another individual. This second individual incidentally posted a highly negative review despite our being unable, ever, to verify him as a real person; and it was noted he was not registered at either of the two addresses given. Nor was even his name consistent.

After returns were made the order took around 2-3 weeks to complete. There was an initial week’s delay, which certainly was due to drop-shipping, which he feels very strongly about. We can assure the public that every company employs an element of drop-shipping- either by formal arrangement, or by informal, one-off, ‘help’ at times. Remarks have been made about companies which don’t do this; please don’t be fooled.

Proviation Ltd actually started with no drop-shipping whatsoever. As the company dovetailed into new brands, a drop-shipping facility was in fact offered by many suppliers but largely was not taken up. In the case of the flight simulation peripherals brand purchased by the individual in question; these products were drop shipped as they were not core business and took up valuable shelf space- being large, bulky, and commercially- low margin goods.

In respect of the order; with regret it shipped late, however it was purchased as a package. While seemingly the Company is accused of misrepresentation, it should be noted that our Terms and Conditions have always been firmly rooted in Law and make accommodation for an item being unexpectedly unavailable. In light of having no real-time stock updates from our supplier, one or two items of said package were outstanding when Proviation ordered the products. We regret occasions where this happened, but they were always remote. In any case, the order was fulfilled well within the lawfully obligated 30 days. Furthermore the Company incurred substantial additional expense well in excess of any profit made on the order, and substantial time costs of dealing with this customer.

This individual singled out his issue as some symptom of doing business with Proviation. He felt qualified to do this on the basis that he is also a business owner, and a highly successful one with an extremely busy schedule. On the numerous occasions the owner called to discuss the order, he was told that it was inconvenient, as he was very busy; his consulting work meaning he was on the telephone to clients in the far East, and other countries internationally. He purported to be an expert in business strategy and, since he was so busy, was confident enough in his appraisal of Proviation to offer one of his ‘clients’ contact details via Skype; she would be invaluable to talk to about our ‘issues’.

This client he mentioned did not exist. As discussed earlier, we have copious amounts of information on this individual and at no time did we see he has any business experience whatsoever. His circumstances mean he is unable or unwilling to work. His very statements about his alleged business would be grounds to raise the matter with the relevant Government department of work and pensions. A mere scan of this forum, and the round-the-clock monitoring of our Trustpilot review profile, and his posts and activity on other internet sites, would suggest without any doubt that this person has spare time aplenty, and did at the time of writing his initial review, and the subsequent protracted correspondence. We also note that there is some history of conflict with other retailers and or manufacturers.

Readers of the forum should note the above; the facts of his Proviation order, his self-proclaimed yet false position in the business world, and, on a minor note, a distinct lack of any aviation background whatsoever on which to make claims about an aviation supply company; and in fact it could be proven that he harbours anti-aviation sentiments, given contributions he has made on other social media.

We’re unable at this time to provide a strong case for any kind of link with a competitor, and would put it down to bad fortune that our paths crossed.

However the power of the internet to distort facts is perhaps its most prolific trait. Due to the high-ranking nature of this discussion forum, our customers are naturally drawn to it, and in raising a defamation claim we have had to swallow the reality that the forum had in some way lost Proviation new business.

However, what was more apparent and critically important to the company, is that those with outstanding orders with the company were more likely to cancel based on what they read here. Customers who ordered goods which came into short-supply were given emails which have been repeated on this thread, thus also creating an air of suspicion and a ‘me-too’ complex.

The thread urges individuals to make formal complaints to Trading Standards. As a company we have actively ensured that our ‘due diligence’ is in place and followed. And in line with SafeBuy and Trusted Shops regulations, that orders were completed in line with their parameters.
This recommendation circumvents the internal complaints procedure we have in place; although some customers are sensible enough to raise their complaint in-house, where it would be dealt with. This in itself was recommended by Trading Standards, with whom we have been working closely as an organization to ensure our full and on-going compliance with the Law.

Due to the endeavours of this thread, our official complaints peaked in the last 6 months. In the first 4-5 years in business, Proviation had no official complaints whatsoever. And, the early posts which began this thread were all resolved, and referred to hand-made items, not offered by other companies. Our status as a new operation likely spurred curiosity and worry among buyers. Back then, we also did not have the resources to take all telephone calls. This changed when we substantially grew our staffing level in 2011.

Despite the peak in complaints in the last 6 months; all of these have been handled to our knowledge. Of these complaints, many were not substantiated by our operating outside of the Law. In most instances the company has not acted outside of its obligations; i.e fulfillment within 30 days; refund within 30 days; or offer of a refund or continuation of the order, after 30 days. In cases where a refund was not received, this has fallen due to ongoing issues with our past merchant acquiring bank, and the difficulties we faced with physically being able to process the refund successfully via our terminal. In all cases, we have hand-held customers down the path to retrieving their funds.

Despite this peak, we have basis in solid fact to state that our complaints rate was 1.4%. The company processed almost 4000 orders in a six-month period to date. 97.6% of orders did not attract a complaint. The Company has already produced this information to a government department voluntarily.

It should be noted that our departure from Trusted Shops was not a result of disputes, and we praise Trusted Shops for a very diligent approach to e-commerce. We always tried to ensure that any invitations to Buyer Protection ( a service we paid to offer- protecting the consumer up to a value of £2000) were fully dealt with and answered. The reason for the departure is a commercial one, taken on the basis that the costs of the service had not been in line with what was expected as a service fee against the previous InternetShoppingIsSafe accreditation body.

Regrettably we did not have the resources in place to track shipment times, but simply note that the majority of orders shipped on-time and in full. As we sold more one-off and hard-to find items in order to diversify from our competition and bring extra value to the under-equipped UK market, our products were sometimes subject to importation, and in may cases arrived late, and beyond what we quoted online. However, at all times it was communicated to the buyer.

The Company notes that out of thousands of customers served, the ‘me-too’ cases on this thread are negligible.

As has been discussed in great detail, we ran a Trustpilot review page, and our average score over 6 months was 7.2; a big drop from previous years More on this later. So, not as high as we would like; however the likelihood of a customer taking the time to leave a review is well documented ; and the split between those more likely to leave a negative comment rather than a positive is a known statistic also.

Most intelligent people will note that a 7.2 average score in that period is entirely a ‘believable’ score and that of a Company which has never manipulated Trustpilot. In fact we have found Trustpilot to be very credible, and extremely pro-customer and in fact, anti-business, to an extent.

Our individual on this forum has copied-and pasted negative reviews against Trustpilot’s terms of service. Following a letter to Trustpilot; they were already aware of this and have expressed in writing on no less 5 occasions that they are pursuing the unauthorized copying of reviews; presumably with the forum owners.

It is interesting to note that, in spite of the comments which suggest we should ‘learn a lesson’ and improve, he is actively blocking current five star reviews which ordinarily would suggest that we are offering good service.

In many cases the negative reviews have been turned into good ones- not through ‘bribes’ as he would have you believe, but by being honest and forthright, and turning around a bad situation. We appeal to the good nature of most people, and ask them to give us a chance; merely to satisfy them, and prove we ‘want’ to give the best service possible. Due to the one-sided argument on this forum, you will not find any evidence that these bad-reviews-pasted have been reversed. This is despite the proclamation of this individual in numerous posts that he wishes to see Proviation improve. It is quite clear that the intent is not to be a warrior for whatever cause he seems to believe, but instead to ensure that negativity is perpetuated and retained on this forum for perpetuity. In all cases where we have had a major problem with a customer, that customer has more-often-than not expressed their dissatisfaction, but with the caveat that they hope we improve next time, and wish us luck in the business. This is truly healthy criticism, unlike the bitter views harboured here.

He has implied that we have written false reviews, and has for the last 12 months consistently blocked positive reviews of legitimate customers. He will be delighted to learn that the Owner has had to spend valuable time emailing these customers, apologizing for the inconvenience of their review being taken offline, and asking them to spend more of their valuable time in submitting evidence to Trustpilot.
In the early days of this happening, we did not know how to respond, so frequently we lost tens of positive reviews. This is what had originally caused our score to drop noticeably from over 9 points almost overnight. However more recently, Trustpilot have given guidance and by encouraging customers to forward their order confirmations and respond to Trustpilot’s emails, our reviews have been re-instated on most occasions.

That someone who purports to want to see a company improve, we cannot understand why he would continually block positive reviews unless to ensure the company is seen in the worst light.

This has come to a climax in the last 7 days where every positive review left has been blocked almost immediately.

As a company we are encouraged not to block negative reviews. In many cases we don’t; but in some examples where we find a situation unacceptable, we have, in order to communicate with the buyer. But mostly, to prevent scare-mongering on this thread, the copying of the review, and in order to prevent any undue panic among customers if the subject of the review was based on an unavoidable outside problem.

Trustpilot has NEVER removed a bad review from our profile and in most cases the suspension is lifted within 48-72 hours. Trustpilot is very much on the side of the consumer.

However we do note profiles which carry a very high rating with a distinct lack of any problems; even couriers mishandling items; items being lost in the post, or damaged or a late or incorrect delivery. We also note by the volume of orders taken by these firms, that the ratio of positive feedback is unusually high.

We have always felt that a score of 7.2 is entirely legitimate and a solid basis for improvement as far as the Trustpilot review page goes. On the basis of the extreme negativity here, and the ‘hospital waiting room’ style of our Trustpilot page, we express that our service must be exceptionally good to prevent further additions to this page.

Attempts to contact Safebuy to complain, by the individual in question, have not been entirely heeded by Safebuy in correspondence with Proviation, since the order was completed. As an organization we have never been struck-off or received any formal warning from SafeBuy. Our complaints rate has numbered less than a dozen in 2-3 years, which given the presence of this forum, is worthy of note. In all cases, the complaints have been resolved satisfactorily. Any thing presently outstanding is being resolved.

As a Company director, and long-standing aviation nut, the Owner has always sought to conduct business affairs with the utmost professionalism. Our industry is cut-throat in terms of competition; but unlike others in the industry, the Owner has conducted business affairs in a cooperative manner at all times and with the backing of the majority of other players in the industry. The Company has always aimed to create and share value among other participants in the market and enjoys close relationships with other companies and connections which the Owner is extremely proud to call friends.

So it is with extreme regret that we announce now that our position in the market is now untenable and we have ceased trading.

Last week our website was taken offline and our web hosts cannot explain why. At the same time most of our positive reviews were blocked. For days before this our site crashed continually and checkout pages froze. Owing to the outage, and the constant advice given on this thread to encourage customers to ‘charge-back’ their cards, we had received a sudden charge of chargebacks in a short period. In 2/8 cases, the goods were shipped. In one case, the customer hadn’t received a refund yet but this was still within limits. In the remainder of cases, all items were not shipped, but there had been good correspondence with the customer on the causes for the delay, and we assumed they panicked when the site was offline.

We received notification from the merchant bank that the sudden chargebacks had prompted a risk assessment of the company. Based on our short length of time trading with them, of only three months, set against the formally acknowledged presence of a discussed thread which tells people to use chargeback, they felt that there would be a risk for them to continue the relationship. This therefore renders the company unable to trade.

So again, we mention the huge power of the internet, and the effect of power in the hands of individuals who should not hold it. The implications of the closure will affect many companies, and in turn individuals, some of whom depend on our trade. Despite raising trade in our industry and breaking through the downturn to bring life back into our sector, we will now have to leave our suppliers and customers.

We’re sure the contributors here will expect they have achieved their goal.

We hope the round-the-clock monitoring and discussion, and filling dead airtime when there was nothing really to say was a very productive, valuable use of your life. We only get one.

This is not completely the case; as a Company we have to take responsibility. But we assess the facts and we see a good company for the last six years. The proof is undeniable and cannot be refuted- not least by a forum which calls itself a ‘Rumour Network’ and has damaged lives in the past.

We will take this further, and given the ‘what-have-we-got-to-lose’ situation we now find ourselves in, we will pursue any perceived wrong-doing with as much vigour as it was given out.

Please take note on the comments and remarks you may leave on forums in the future. They are long-lasting and damaging. They affect far more people than you expect, far-reaching from our Company itself, and are far out of proportion to any ‘complaint’ or objection you felt you had. If you were aware of how wrong you were, you would see the facts and would reel back. In the case of the main individual on this forum; he lacks this balance. Undeniable through the contradictory comments he has left; his desire to not see the Company address issues; his un-called for, personal attacks on an individual, his distortion of the truth and the very fact that he feels the need to lie about his background and circumstances.

The owner has meticulous notes of events and decisions taken in recent years and on recent discussions with friends and colleagues, has acted in the best interests of customers and suppliers at all times, tirelessly, for years. While the individuals of this forum will likely continue or find a new target, we will move on from this in time.

We fully expect this post to receive a short and terse dismissal, and will not expect to find any support in a forum like this one. But do take heed that- in this age of recession and proliferation of media programming about ‘rogue’ companies; one needs to remain grounded and, at times, should not judge companies against what they hear or read. We thank the majority of customers who did have a problem for being so patient and understanding, and not taking matters to the nonsense-extremes we read here.

In closing thank you to the customers who have supported us over the years. We are sorry to not be able to serve you again, and we hope that you go on to flourish in your hobbies and activities.

We will not re-visit this forum again, nor give it any recognition as a place for genuine news or information, and therefore we are signing-off now. Any news will be posted onto our website only.

For those who cannot face wading through the lengthy post above, I have taken the liberty of highlighting the key message, about 3/4 of the way down.

SD

The following message appears at the top of the Proviation Home page:
The following message appears on the (rather harder to find) Proviation News page:

Good luck to the creditors, and those awaiting refunds.

I wonder what will happen to the other "enterprises" - Home - Proviation Air Express, Home - Airfield Equipment UK & Europe and Welcome - fly.sba

Out of curiosity, since the proviation shop website is still up and running, I tried placing an order on one of the multitudinous items still in stock. Lo and behold, you can go through the order process and select payment by cheque, PayPal etc. but not by credit card.

I'd have thought that if it had genuinely ceased trading it would be a simple matter to take down the site, leaving just the above closure message on the home page. Apparently not.

Be warned!

FBW

No sorrow from this dissatisfied customer. Congratulations to Paul Kerry and others. This all went on for far too long.

Good news, but perhaps not for those trying to get refunds.

Well done Paul, for having the stamina to keep shining the spotlight on this sad saga.

So, everyone else's fault..... as usual.
He won't recognise PPRuNe? So what difference will that make to anyone??

Trying to give us a bollocking, Nick? Unbelievable!

Hmmm
 

our original order was August 2013 and that was finally responded in December 2013 - that it could not be supplied.
No further response until 28 Jan when approaching as a new customer I made contact. A week later a further promise that a newer version of the ordered unit "could be despatched the following week".
No response or contact since and no refund of the originally paid order sum of 200 quid.

The experience does contradict the long winded assertions by Proviation above.

The statement concerning "no obligation to ship outstanding orders" appears to be insolvency.
We need to determine definitely if it is insolvency or simply closure for convenience that is underway and take appropriate action to register any claim and or involve credit card recovery.

Nick's sour grapes make such sweet whine ! ;)

... and when I get some time, I will be responding to some of the untruthful things written in the recent post by Bloviation.

My schedule for today includes the very client that Nick (or his spokesperson) claims does not exist. It's going to be interesting to hear her reaction when I tell her of the latest developments.

Just a thought - Does this mean that the "trade-association" of only one member is now going to be a trade association of none?

Paul..

facebuck / bloviation
 

The page can be reported to the site operators for removal and if enough people do so they will hopefully act.

Likewise I wonder if the web hosting service for bloviation could be persuaded to act if the company is indeed effectively in liquidation

I am no expert in writing styles, but that very lengthy saga a few posts up does not suggest it was written by the same person that I recognise as Proviation, perhaps a grown up is now helping ?
"Undeniable through the contradictory comments he has left" was one of the phrases that caught my eye as the limited contacts I had were so full of contradictions from them, that even now I find it hard to believe.

My hope is that those still owed goods or refunds by them are able to receive them soon, and that no-one else falls into this pit of incompetence once called Proviation .


Paul :ok:

Derek Slater

Glad to see this leeching , parasitical ,dishonest entity has been forced out of business BY A CREDIT CARD PROVIDER who, presumably, as a somewhat more professional and larger enterprise than Proviation, studied the latter's FIVE YEAR HISTORY and withdrew their services.

Thanks to SAAB DASTARD for the salient highlight.....I gave up the will to wade through that delusional verbal diarrhoea, long before that point.

Every person who got their money back, should give thanks to Paul Kerry
and ABGD, who's forensic analysis helped to point-up the systematic deception that was taking place.

I feel sorry for the not-insignificant number of "customers" who didn't shout loudly -enough for long enough....I guess they have subsidised Nicks lifestyle and have less chance of seeing their money back, than of seeing their order delivered.

Finally, Nick...I really hope you seek the psychiatric help you so obviously need. You are ill! You are unable to run a company in a proper, legal, moral and ethical manner.....some would say you're a small -time crook, but your long screed above shows clearly that you are seriously deluded.....seek help before the authorities forcibly lock you up.

It will be very educational to see the winding-up details for this company and find out just how many honest, hard-working people were defrauded of just how much money!

Hi Paul,

Well well well. Ceased trading - I wonder if that is genuine or just a means of putting some people off chasing him. As someone else wrote, it is hard to find this "news" on the Proviation web site. I can't help thinking that he doesn't want visitors on the site to see it either - otherwise why not paste the message at the top of the front page in bold letters?

No, he did not offer a bribe or mention anything about removing my entry on Trustpilot (I suppose I managed that quite well myself by not following the rules :=). Neither did he bleat about "family business", "misunderstood" or similar, he just took exception to my use of such words as "Con" and "Fraud". The refund info he sent to me I have sent on to Sage and enquired if indeed this is going through. I could just wait and see, but quite frankly after dealing with Nick I am tired of waiting...... not much seems to come out of that....

Martin

Ceased Trading
 

I received a pdf of a letter confirmed the cessation but also saying that there were no funds to undertake a voluntary liquidation and so they are waiting for a debtor to start the winding up procedure for them.

text below with apols for format loss:-

I read the whole post. For me the saddest thing is that all it would have taken would have been to come here and post honestly in response to any problems, saying what the resolutions were. If you actually defend yourself (and have nothing to hide) in threads such as these, you can be saved.


Unfortunately, it would appear his position was indefensible.

A couple of thoughts on the post from Proviation.

For those connoisseurs of the late lamented Skyferry / Weaver Thread, there must be a bit of a sense of déjà vu about a long, rambling and self justifying post made at 1 o'clock in the morning.

For me, the most significant development is that Proviation says it has stopped trading because it has lost it's credit / debit card service provider. I recall posting about this being a consequence of what they were alleged to be doing back in August 2013 and now it seems to have happened.

This is something banks do reluctantly and, as I understand it from the Proviation post, results from a significant number of charge backs. Card companies do require proof of default before crediting cardholders, otherwise it's just too easy to buy something and make a spurious claim.

Of course, in order for there to be a charge back, there must obviously have been a charge in the first place so these incidents must refer to real orders placed on the company.

This would seem to bear out claims that Proviation has been charging cards before shipping the products ordered, and has been slow or unwilling to make refunds. Reputable companies don't do either of these things and if that is not the case, I do not believe that the card company would be cancelling their facility.

They also say that they have a short trading history with that card company. Is so, it begs the question of who were they using before, and under what circumstances did they leave that previous provider?

They also claim that false reviews have been posted on TrustPilot.

Reading many of the reviews, this does not ring true because of the level of product specific detail quoted in them, and that several seem to be from people with a long history as posters on this and other aviation forums (ie not "reviews for hire" folks).

Since writing the above, I have also just read the last but one post and have to say it makes me rather sad: I don't like seeing any business go bust, even if these guys do seem rather to have brought it on themselves.

Since posting, I have seen Tim's post and have to say I agree entirely. It didn't have to end like this.

Following the news the record should be set straight on some points rather than allowing this to break loose in any which direction:

1) The site went offline for 3 days last week- 1&1 could not confirm why, although the server was online.
2) We received a spate of 8 chargebacks covering a two day period. Of these 2 were defended as shipped. 1 was defended as being less than 30 days from date of order. 1 was on hold pending a quote for an increase in oil shipping to Northern Europe, and this went to chargeback before asking for refund. A Mr. Brown was issued a refund on 31 Jan and did not reply. We sent numerous updates since then to ask if the order could be released. A Miss Fell has a parcelforce tracking number. Another has an interlink express tracking number.

We submitted defences for all but 2 claims.

I sent this to our merchant bank:

"

Lack of contact recently due to our shop site being down multiple times over the last 2-3 weeks. Most notably w/c 27 Jan. This impacted on
A) Customers being able to log in to check their order and read messages. The separately hosted 'self service area' was offline.
B) We were unable to access the order management of the site (also based online)
C) Customer fear that something had happened to the company.

I attach some recent emails to our hosts, 1&1 – my most recent email to them – you’ll see in my opening line I say “once again”, as this had been on-going. I also have other emails I can send, plus twitter support messages to prove that I believe our shop being repeatedly offline has caused some of these problems. "

We traded with our first merchant account from day one for approx 4.5 years with no issues until we took on a mass market electronics product and our turnover peaked in Dec 2012. Merchants view the seasonal period as high risk and we were re-assessed on this basis. We were under review until June 2013. The bank and my company elected to part ways as we could not agree that the business should be penalised throughout the year on the basis of seasonal trade- which would not be repeated.

I was naive and should have kept the account open. Once you terminate an account a domino effect ensues. You have quarterly reviews on trading style, product range, order values. Our second account was set up in haste by a salesperson and should have been more closely scrutinised prior to set-up. It lasted only 3 months.

It is unheard of to have three accounts. On the basis of the above downtime coinciding with a 3 monthly review almost exactly accompanied by a batch of chargebacks received combined with people being told to go to chargeback on this thread, they closed the account on the basis of risk.
Merchant banks take risks in supplying card services- however we invested a security deposit into our merchant account of a substantial sum of money. This will not be released for 120 days and remains in place to cover chargebacks.

We enjoyed very strong Christmas sales this year and a busy January. We received 8 chargebacks totalling £511.00. We had the facility in place not to charge cards, and most of these were only charged as they had been sent, part sent, or were pending delivery or refund for cancellation/return. Prior to these 8, the company received only 3 chargebacks from November. Companies are expected to receive a high number over Christmas. 1/3 were successfully defended.

"(Proviation) has been slow or unwilling to make refunds" Refunds failed after termination of our second account in October as the merchant refused to allow refunds. We processed them and they sat in limbo. We had to send cheques or bank transfers,effectively paying twice. In these instances unscrupulous customers could have also filed chargeback claims and received money twice over. We still issued the refunds, nonetheless.

"They also claim that false reviews have been posted on TrustPilot" We claim to have been 'set up' on a few occasions. We got wise to 'customers' ordering very small items shipping to fake addresses.

We attracted many good reviews recently which Paul Kerry did not want you to see. He blocked them. However Trustpilot re-instated them once customers had surrendered their personal and order information.

"all it would have taken would have been to come here and post honestly in response to any problems". I would have said the exact same thing, and I did post responses when this thread was young. I came to be eaten alive and resigned myself to think I couldn't possibly say the right thing. I was told my language was flowery, or that I was talking 'BS'. The occasion where we handled a Dynon D2 repair and commented on this stands out in my mind. We tried to explain the unit had to be checked and inspected before a return could be made. We arranged UPS to collect it. We turned it as fast as possible but not fast enough.

"Just a thought - Does this mean that the "trade-association" of only one member is now going to be a trade association of none?"

I didn't have time to pursue AEAS. It was designed so that manufacturers could sign up in order to agree to respond to customer feedback if ever a product was deemed unsuitable for use in aviation, or required modification. It was to be a reassurance that members would only sell products to customers that met high standards, and collectively would withdraw products from sale which did not meet certain criteria or received complaints. As an unregulated sector in terms of products, it came to me as an idea to start it.

"The page can be reported to the site operators for removal and if enough people do so they will hopefully act" The checkout is offline and there is a notice in red writing at the top of each page. There needs to be a place to assist customers affected- Pprune is not this place. Our news page needs to remain live.
Sorry but I cannot replace the site with a generic page yet but it is being worked on. This only happened 48 hours ago so you'll need to bear with me.

"Congratulations to Paul Kerry and others" For closing a business? I'm sorry but regardless of the length of this thread, we did continue trading successfully. Our shop is too old to integrate with any other merchant services gateways, and regardless of this, we cannot source a new account. It is actually this simple. Clearly we have bills to pay and outgoings whereby we cannot take a 6 week break without a merchant facility as happened in October. This event last year was the catalyst for what has occured now.

Lastly, since people can speculate on my background and call me various names I had never, ever, expected to be called in my life (mug that I am for starting a company in this industry); take note that Paul Kerry is most definitely not who he says he is. If he is working, then he is doing so illegally. I have nothing to gain from giving you this information- just to suggest that I am not the one aiming to deceive.

I wanted to post to wrap up some final comments since the closure announcement and will now close-off. Thank you.

All your own fault, Nick.... writing stuff down won't force people to believe stuff contrary to their own experiences

All your own fault.

Proviation customer care problems
 

Proviation, what is the point of posting all that crap when everyone on here knows, quite independently, that it's total bollocks? I know you're talking crap because I had precisely the experience that many others have described. The only thing wrong with this latest development is that it has taken so long to happen.

For what it's worth, it does seem to have been written by the same person as previous Proviation posts. Plenty of it to analyse!

Well i am confused
 

Usually when a business sadly closes down, the current business model is stopped and a prominent announcement made.

Proviations website is still taking orders, you just cannot pay for them
A strange one line only message says simply, we cannot accept cards AT THIS TIME on a hard to find news page.

The basket page will not allow you to pay, but if you are customer and got to that point you are bound to ring up and ask why, so maybe there is a back way being employed to take more customers money.

His trustpilot page reviews are still "being edited" one would guess by proviation themselves and despite signing off on this forum, announcing this would be the last time he would state his position on prune, he has continued to populate this thread 3 times with large diatribes and no doubt respond to this one.

If this business really has closed down, its the strangest wind down in history. Why leave yourself open to more potential problems?

I don't think we have seen the last of this one.

I think Nick truly believes his own hype.
Sad, deluded man, makes serious, libellous allegations against Paul Kerry......he has a potential personal liability, there.

He claims to have a security bond (SUBSTANTIAL ! no less!) lodged with the card- provider......Well, I'm no clairvoyant but I've a strong suspicion that it is considerably less than the amount owed to people who paid for non-existent goods.

Many posts ago, I stated that any creditor should pursue a refund agressively, before the pot ran dry. I also suggested that today's payments were paying yesterday's refunds,the unclaimed balance being used to keep the Ross lifestyle and the Proviation money-rake operating.

I might even have alluded to Bernie Madoff and Ponzi-schemes.

Well, Mr. Ross, FYI there are some situations where a Company Director cannot hide behind a Limited Liability Company.

Libellous statements against individuals.
Fraudulent trading.....Deception.

Had you taken note of the well-intentioned P.M's from experienced businessmen, showing you how to restore credibility and trade with integrity, Proviation could have been a market-leader.

You wilfuly ignored that advice and a trickle of dissatisfied customers became a flood of defrauded victims.

You milked the company dry...where's all the stock?
Where's all the money paid for non-existent goods?

I do hope a proper investigation is carried out. Remember, the family home could be siezed, you gould face criminal charges....
Thinking you can get away with what's been going on, is indeed delusiory.

Go se your doctor! If, indeed, your actions have been as a result of Mental Illness, that would be a defence in Court.

TO ANYONE OWED MONEY......CONTACT YOUR CARD-PROVIDER IMMEDIATELY AND COPY THE TRADING-STANDARDS OFFICE AND cHIEF cONSTABLE OF THE AREA POLICE,WHERE PROVIATION WAS BASED.

DO NOT DELAY, IT ONLY COSTS 3 STAMPS AND A FEW PHOTOCOPIES. You may see justice!

This is actually the correct place to which to direct fraud complaints according to a rather helpful constable at Bedfordshire Police.

Action Fraud | Report fraud and internet crime

0300 123 2040

Paul..

Proviation customer care problems
 

Nick is a liar and thief plain and simple he took money from my account in September and I have received no good at a cost of close to £700. Despite numerous emails and calls and your assistant alex saying he would chase up you are a pure liar.

I suggest you pay people back for the money that they have worked hard for and not cheated like you.

"I think Nick truly believes his own hype.
Sad, deluded man, makes serious, libellous allegations against Paul Kerry......he has a potential personal liability, there."

- Of course I believe it!
- You don't know Paul Kerry? I do. We shipped goods to him, and I know others who know this individual and his background

"flood of defrauded victims." We set up a business to buy, sell and ship goods to end users which has happened successfully thousands of times. I have kept meticulous records, shipping receipts and exported our order management system to a secure server for future records. A company which subscribed to consumer organisations, regulatory compliance, with hundreds of suppliers internationally is not a company seeking to defraud.

My lifestyle for 6 years has been one of hard work almost without a day's break. Those on here continuing trying to hack personal information of mine will have IPs logged.

Any investigation into my personal affairs will reveal that I ring-fenced money into the company. I could have walked away in October but instead I raised finance in order to take on a new merchant company and continue the business, which was the responsible move to make to ensure our creditors would continue to be paid. My lifestyle has been one of absolute dedication to running the company. It sickens me to be tained on this thread that I behaved any differently.

The contradictory remarks here are extraordinary. Surely I would not plough money into an indefinite merchant holding account if I was seeking to defraud customers- who would invariably go to chargeback and thereby close the merchant account. As director I will report to the official receiver and surrender my records.
My personal finances will reveal I barely took any wage at all and re-invested all profits into the company. At one point in October I used personal credit cards to pay for goods in order to keep the company moving. I now have no recourse on that and still have these bills to pay, somehow.
All of our outstanding orders for the last 30 days have been refunded and I have kept a list of all of these refunds which were processed on 10th and 11th Feb and this has already been emailed to my contacts in organisations with whom I wanted to work closely and benefit from advice from.


"a trickle of dissatisfied customers became a flood of defrauded victims." Your choice of words is mind boggling. When was this flood? I see the same names on this forum time and time again. We processed 3886 orders in the 6 months to 02 Feb 2014?

"You milked the company dry...where's all the stock?" The stock will be sold off by the receiver. I can't touch stock for personal use! Money was ring-fenced and the business made pre-tax trading losses in its first year as a limited company following a smaller loss in 2012. Our average order value was £127. Base that over 12 months and you have a company turning over up to 1M. As a limited company all accounts are compiled by chartered accountant. I have submitted my self assessment which indicates I have in fact earned under the tax threshold. I have not claimed any expenses since July 2012 and my wage was barely taken. Our overheads had crept up and up, advertising costs too; however the aim was growth and price competition.

"If this business really has closed down, its the strangest wind down in history. Why leave yourself open to more potential problems?"

Hello 'A'. The site is online so the news page can be shown. See my previous remark. I can't replace the shop with a generic page at the moment. Ask 1&1 - you might have plenty of time to spend on the phone to them today. Believe it or not, I don't.

Part of my posting here is part of the winding down process to ensure that I make it patently clear that I have not behaved as some rogue trader in the running of this company; that instances of poor service were addressed; and that the majority of orders were satisfied. It is an undisputed fact in terms of the ratio of complaints which have been formalised.

People have mis-read my comments below as I shift of blame. I am wholly responsible for the company and this is what I signed-up to. The salient points are there to give you insight into what happened for anyone who cares enough about the mechanisms behind the failure. What you here do is criticise, instances of poor service- you do not know the mechanisms behind the problem and you can't possibly know this unless you worked in the company, or you take note of my account in my previous posts.

As I have mentioned, everything is recorded, and the financial picture of the company will be ascertained by a licenced professional, who will also note, in clear numbers, how trigger events caused this failure. Copying and pasting reviews does not change this.

Oh wow! Busted ! I have a YouTube account.

I am such a deviant !

Shoot me now !

.. and of course, that YouTube channel proooooooves all of your bogus and libellous allegations against me. NOT!

I hope you are prepared to put your money where your mouth is.
(Actually, it matters not whether or not you are prepared - you just goofed big-style - a later post will elucidate and I will explain where it is that Nick is getting his false information and what is not known by his sources)

[EDIT: I notice that Nick has removed the reference to my YouTube channel. I suspect that he realises that examination of my posts on that channel actually contradict his claims - Ooooops ! ]

Paul..

Proviation customer care problems
 

Nick all I want to know is when will I get my refund for goods your promised and clearly not going to deliver.

I am extremely disappointed despite all the email replies and your emails saying there was a supplier delay this is clearly fraudulent ...

Interestingly, the Proviation (still active) website shows the Zaon XRX available in 7-14 days. A product for which the manufacturer has gone out of business.


You couldn't make it up.

To be fair, so long as the website has stopped taking any method of payment I don't think there's anything to reproach Nick for regarding leaving it up.

To be fair, so long as the company has stopped taking any method of payment I don't think there's anything to reproach Nick for regarding leaving the website up.

(Bearing in mind the suggestion that existing customers might call and ask if they can have their order).

Hey, it's going to be rather annoying and inconvenient to fill up a virtual shopping basket with goodies only to find that they cannot be purchased and shipped but better that than the previous situation where customers were deceived into handing over money for items which were never going to be shipped.

That's got to be an improvement all-round, I'd say.

Paul..

:ugh::ugh::ugh:

REALLY! NICK! My profile shows you Iam not some smartass slick spivvy conman I'm far too old for that! but I know one when I see one.

At the very start of this thread, I tried to help you...from our PM's it became rapidly apparent to me, you were embarking on a course to trade Proviation into the ground.
You claim a pro-rata million pound turnover, yet made a loss?
A business model that has such poor results as your heart-rending story of self-sacrifice would have us believe, , would have ceased trading as soon as the lack of profits manifested itself......yet the money materialised to set-up and have hosted a pseudo "trade association"
you paid a minimum of £75 a month for Trustpilot to host "reviews" which were not impartially audited and were obviously full of fake posts.
Awebsite is the shop window of any On-Line business....perhaps the hosting difficulty you experienced, was due toyour breach of the Host's terms? -Or perhaps you used a poor choice of hosting Co.?

Don't know or care...but I know rather more than you think I do!

The number of postings since this thread started, the complaints to your local Trading Standards, the number of complaints to your local Police -Force......all during this period.....remember?

You pleaded that it was "growing pains" ---in a company that had "successfully traded" for four (or was it 5) years......so, after 4 years you still hadn't got a handle on expansion?- YEAH! RIGHT!

Even if I charitably suggest you were out of your depth, despite not making money, you didn't twig?

Hells Bells, you really are a slow learner, aren't you?

Still in denial, still bull****ting, still cust....err VICTIMS waiting for "close to £700"...and that's only one of how many?

I bet your meticulously presented books are, indeed, pure as the driven snow.....
The really big players, like Asil Nadir, the Enron management, Bernie Madoff...they all had" professionally Audited accounts "
I bet they paid a lot more than you, as well.

Your accounts are worth less than the cost of the paper and ink.

Sorry, Nick, "Methinks the man doth protest too much"
Your chickens are coming home to roost. you will reap what you've sown.

Oh, and what about all those suckers who just gave up trying to get their goods or a refund?....you built up a lot of ill-will, there!

Was it really worth it, Nick?

Who were Nick's most recent merchant service providers?
I think I will add them to my Christmas card list.

Paul..

Notice to all - this isn't a schlock horror gothic fantasy. Any more posts like the last couple I just deleted (you know who you are) and this thread is history.

Outraged Daily Mail hypertension addicts are bad enough, albeit just about tolerable, but the last two crossed the line.

A bit of decorum, please.

Nick's posts may have been fanciful but they were never disgusting.

SD

Some questions and thoughts for Proviation
 

As I said in my first post on this thread: I don't have a dog in this fight as I am not a customer of Proviation. As the thread has developed, I have tried to post in a balanced and factual way (mostly!). Also, as I said in my last post, I don't like to see any business go bust like this as invariably innocent people get hurt when it happens.

In that spirit, I have a few questions / thoughts arising from the recent Proviation posts.

1. Is Proviation being targeted or the victim of malicious attacks?

If it is, any right thinking person should utterly condemn it. Well I would anyhow. So is it true?

Mr Ross says:

“We got wise to 'customers' ordering very small items shipping to fake addresses.”

Can he quote examples? How does he know they are fake addresses? Why would it matter anyway if he can provide proof of delivery?

Also, if it's a genuine card but a fake address different from the one to which the card is registered, I always thought that the payment wouldn't be authorised.

He says: “We attracted many good reviews recently which Paul Kerry did not want you to see. He blocked them.”

That's quite an allegation. Can Mr Ross explain how a third party can simply “block” a review with no evidence? Query it, perhaps, but block it?

Equally, the allegation was frequently made that Proviation was causing genuine critical reviews to be suppressed. Can they provide verifiable details of their grounds for doing so or refute the allegation that they did?"

Mr Ross says: “We believe we have been heavily targeted in recent times by those wishing to harm the company’s reputation”

Why does he think people have tried to do this?

There has indeed been a very large number of negative comments about Proviation customer service posted here from a wide range of customers both from the UK and abroad.

Is he saying that they are all fake and that the way in which Proviation has managed customer service has not been the main cause of the problems?

In the first post, he talks about someone “representing the interests of a competitor”.

That's also quite a serious allegation and, if true, customers should know the details. I for one would not want to trade with a business that would do something like that.

So who was it, and which competitor? What proof of this is there?

It does seems a bit strange, though, that no other player in this market seems to have been targeted.


2. Loss of merchant account

Proviation says that: “We received a spate of 8 chargebacks covering a two day period” and “We submitted defences for all but 2 claims”.

Wow! Given that claimants can not start the process without showing that they have tried to get the supplier to resolve a problem themselves and, to make it stick, they then need to provide full justification: that would seem to bear out at least some of the complaints about problems with broken promises and inability to contact customer service.

As a data point: for the last ten years, I have been Chairman of a company which does part of it’s business by credit card. In all that time we have never had a single charge back claim, never mind failed to defend one. The post from Proviation reads as though it's quite a normal part of doing business. It isn't, and I recall pointing out the potential consequences on this thread last year.


3. Charging cards before shipment

Reputable companies don't do this.

Proviation says: “We had the facility in place not to charge cards, and most of these were only charged as they had been sent, part sent, or were pending delivery or refund for cancellation/return”

Sorry, but everyone has “the facility in place not to charge cards” before delivery at all. You, erm, don't charge the card until you ship. Simples!

Question: how often did Proviation charge cards before shipment and, if they did so, why?

As they seem to have found: if you do that, and then have delivery delays and don't deal with them, what happens is:

“We received notification from the merchant bank that the sudden chargebacks had prompted a risk assessment of the company”

Confucius he say: “further comment like nightie on honeymoon: superfluous....”


5. Paul Kerry

Presumably that is who is meant by:

“In the case of the main individual on this forum; he lacks this balance. Undeniable through the contradictory comments he has left; his desire to not see the Company address issues; his un-called for, personal attacks on an individual, his distortion of the truth and the very fact that he feels the need to lie about his background and circumstances. “

In particular, Paul Kerry stands accused of “distortion of the truth” and “the need to lie about his background and circumstances”

Again, that's quite an allegation. Can Mr Ross substantiate it? If so, Paul Kerry has a lot to answer for. If Mr Ross can't, then I would suggest that he does.


6. The last few posts here have raised the possibilities of Mr Ross incurring personal commercial liability, despite Proviation having been a limited company, as well as even potential criminal prosecution.

Reading what I have read here, I would advise him quite strongly not to discount either possibility, and to be very active in dealing with the issues that could quite easily cause these things to happen.


7. A final quote from Mr Ross's last post:

“My lifestyle has been one of absolute dedication to running the company. It sickens me to be tained on this thread that I behaved any differently.”

If that's meant to be genuine, a good first step towards coming out the other side of this situation with a chance to make good, would be a demonstrable willingness to face up to the issues that led to this dreadful outcome, acknowledge responsibility for them and, if it isn't too late, be seen to try to deal with them.

Nick has admitted doing this and tried to justify doing it here in this very thread when he wrote:
Flagging those reviews as in violation of TP ToS is dishonest no matter what his personal reasons may be and is completely incongruent with his claims to always having acted with honesty and integrity.
Also, the reviews were being reposted as a result of the flagging campaign on negative reviews. If the negative reviews weren't being flagged down, they would never have been reposted here.
To claim that they were being flagged to prevent them being posted here is putting the cart before the horse. Cause leads to effect, not the other way around.

His claim that I have " for the last 12 months consistently blocked positive reviews of legitimate customers" is a falsehood.
In fact, some pages back, I even asked those who were doing so to cease because it was muddying the waters.

There was a series of about three reviews recently which I suspected to be fake. I flagged them.
There have also been one or two reviews which have used "names or personal details" and seeing that Nick flags negative reviews for such violations, it was only fitting that his positive ones be flagged for the same.
However, in total, I think I can count no more than about six reviews which were flagged by myself and the person responsible for the recent spate of flagged positive reviews actually put his hands up to it in this thread, yet still Nick falsely accuses me of that.

His claim that I am not working is untrue as is his claim that the client I mentioned to him does not exist.

http://www.internal-reflections.com/...cyFuExists.mp3

This interview is an accurate representation of the conversation that took place and my thanks go to Tracy (a researcher in what she calls the "shopper-marketing" industry) for taking the time to do this and allowing me to post it here. It's worth a listen because not only does she outright contradict many of Nick's claims she also says some interesting things about him, his attitude and his business.

I have edited out some dead-space, a few things that were said which related to personal details and a phone-call which occurred during the conversation but other than that, it is unadulterated.

As for his claims that I am working illegally, he has got that idea by talking to another supplier of aviation products and said supplier's engineer.
These are people who know me personally... Or, at least did some years ago.

Some time ago, I suffered an injury to my spine which meant that going out to work was not possible and for a period of time, I claimed benefits due to my inability to work.
What these people, and hence, Nick do not know is that after I got married, unwilling to remain in the benefit-trap, I registered as self-employed, taking myself off those benefits in the process.
Even though I did not make any money for quite a while, I worked at creating a means of working from home in such a way that whatever my state of mobility, it would still be possible to be productive.
With the help of my wife, I dug myself out of the hole I was in and am now providing a very popular service to clients who are queuing for weeks and in some cases, months, to make use of my service... and they are well aware of how long they will have to wait. No-one is deceived as to how long they will have to wait or what it is that I provide and they are still happy to book in advance for the chance to get onto my schedule.
In the interview, a reseller is mentioned. This reseller is not the only reseller of my services and about a year ago, another reseller booked time on my schedule just for the chance to talk to me and ask me to allow them to resell my time.

Never did I tell Nick that I am an expert in business strategy although I did offer to pass him on to one - the lady interviewed in the mp3 supplied.

If Nick truly believes that I am working illegally, then I suggest that he report me to the DWP. They will check their records and determine that his accusation is unjustified. After all, I've been submitting tax-returns for some years, now. If I were doing that and claiming unemployment benefits, I think they'd have come a-knocking before now.

Nick also claims that I am not who I say I am. Really? Who do I claim to be? Where is it in this thread (or anywhere else) that I claim to be anyone or anything?
As far as my username goes, it isn't my full name but I could call myself Fred Flintstone on an Internet forum, it doesn't mean that I am claiming to be married to Wilma and have a best friend called Barney!


A post on his own website would suggest that the answer to that is all of them up until Nov 2013.

This is a lot shorter than the one I was intending to give.
However, wanting to strike whilst the iron is still hot and being rather short on time right now, I decided to provide these details for the time being.
I still intend to cover some of the other untruthful things that Nick has posted about myself and the order I placed.
I am not the one distorting the truth, here. Nick's account of the details of my order is fictitious as is his claim that I harbour anti-aviation sentiments.

Paul..

It's gone strangely quiet, suddenly.

You just had to say it.........

I Googled: "It's quiet, too quiet"

"Someone has to break the silence, and only one line will do: "It's quiet...too quiet."

This trope describes any moment in a narrative where the action has hit a low point, when anyone who's paying attention would notice that a Random Encounter could, or should, appear at any instant. Fairly often something will happen within a minute, which will lead another character to say "You Just Had to Say It"."

:p