My Blood is boiling - The CAA (licencing)
PPRuNe Handmaiden
I can't remember exactly the Oz system but I am pretty sure once you've passed the flight test and the paper work is ok then you can go and fly. I can't remember how long CASA took to get it all sorted but it isn't as long (or as expensive) as the CAA.
The ATPL is a rather boring green colour. Same colour as the Australian licence. The Aussie lic folder is the same one for all classes of licence and is cloth/plastic covered.
6 weeks appears to be the go with the CAA at the moment. Checkboard passed his LST on the 737 for his ATPL and went round to the CAA immediately afterwards. That was 3 weeks ago. He rang them yesterday, they are "snowed under" and will take another 15 working days to get it sorted.
Incredible.
Oh, Trudy's pretty good at Gatwick (CAA). She's pretty helpful. I bet they've moved her on.
The ATPL is a rather boring green colour. Same colour as the Australian licence. The Aussie lic folder is the same one for all classes of licence and is cloth/plastic covered.
6 weeks appears to be the go with the CAA at the moment. Checkboard passed his LST on the 737 for his ATPL and went round to the CAA immediately afterwards. That was 3 weeks ago. He rang them yesterday, they are "snowed under" and will take another 15 working days to get it sorted.
Incredible.
Oh, Trudy's pretty good at Gatwick (CAA). She's pretty helpful. I bet they've moved her on.
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Westy,
I too hate the idea of personal data being publicly available. All that would be required would be the minimum to associate your means of identification with the record of your flying licence. For example by typing in a pilot's name, address and licence number would cause the CAA's machine to reveal pertinent details about your licence.
"some pilots fly to faraway places where internet actually doesn't exist!"
True, I guess there are a few settlements providing aviation facilities to strangers which are beyond economic reach of the public telephone network. But once there, it's probably a bit late to start worrying about whether a pilot is licensed or not.
In any event, how often would a Patagonian flight-ops actually know whether the piece of paper I held under his nose was a genuine JAR-FCL licence, or something I printed myself? Without the benefit of internet access to Pprune, I doubt he would even know what colour the cover should be.
I too hate the idea of personal data being publicly available. All that would be required would be the minimum to associate your means of identification with the record of your flying licence. For example by typing in a pilot's name, address and licence number would cause the CAA's machine to reveal pertinent details about your licence.
"some pilots fly to faraway places where internet actually doesn't exist!"
True, I guess there are a few settlements providing aviation facilities to strangers which are beyond economic reach of the public telephone network. But once there, it's probably a bit late to start worrying about whether a pilot is licensed or not.
In any event, how often would a Patagonian flight-ops actually know whether the piece of paper I held under his nose was a genuine JAR-FCL licence, or something I printed myself? Without the benefit of internet access to Pprune, I doubt he would even know what colour the cover should be.
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The FAA has an online airman database here
It will display name, address and ratings held. They must think there is value in an online system and that it is suitably secure (they are very keen on the protection of privacy of personal information over there).
The database won't display the license number - I assume this is to stop forgeries (although my record (reciprocal) DOES display my CAA license number!), and any pilot can opt out of having personal information displayed if they want to. Interestingley, basic changes, such as change of address, or opting out, can even be done on line
I guess some people use it and find it of value, but would anyone really use a CAA equivelent? Since nobody has ever asked to see my paper license or medical, I somehow doubt it.
It will display name, address and ratings held. They must think there is value in an online system and that it is suitably secure (they are very keen on the protection of privacy of personal information over there).
The database won't display the license number - I assume this is to stop forgeries (although my record (reciprocal) DOES display my CAA license number!), and any pilot can opt out of having personal information displayed if they want to. Interestingley, basic changes, such as change of address, or opting out, can even be done on line
I guess some people use it and find it of value, but would anyone really use a CAA equivelent? Since nobody has ever asked to see my paper license or medical, I somehow doubt it.
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Sorry Tyro, but big brother and all his friends are watching. Anyone who thinks their personal information is not available on the 'net, or to any half-way competent investigator is kidding themselves.
Biggest selling domsetic electrical appliance in the states now is a cross-cut shredder... Identity fraud and identity theft is big business - 380,000 cases last year.
Bear 555
Biggest selling domsetic electrical appliance in the states now is a cross-cut shredder... Identity fraud and identity theft is big business - 380,000 cases last year.
Bear 555
I say there boy
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Has the FCL public counter at Aviation House closed? A few years ago I got my CPL and IR issued there, it took a couple of hours for the former and an hour for the latter, and they give you a time to come back to counter so you can have a coffee and time your return.
Worth a thought if you live close by and have the time.
As for the CAA, it seems to me that it is stuffed with jobsworths on a make-work campaign. That old public service attitude again: "Can't Do". I'm having similar problems getting my NHS GP to release my medical records to an insurance company at the moment - three weeks in, despite multiple phone calls, they've finally realised that they've lost the paperwork and I'm back at square one....
Worth a thought if you live close by and have the time.
As for the CAA, it seems to me that it is stuffed with jobsworths on a make-work campaign. That old public service attitude again: "Can't Do". I'm having similar problems getting my NHS GP to release my medical records to an insurance company at the moment - three weeks in, despite multiple phone calls, they've finally realised that they've lost the paperwork and I'm back at square one....
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wow, it seems like a lot of people are currently sending off for their licence.
At the time i was taking my test there were a lot of people also doing theirs.
It must just be a bad time of year. I sent off for mine 16days ago and still no money taken out the account. Not holding my breath but hopefully it'll be through soon.
Spike
At the time i was taking my test there were a lot of people also doing theirs.
It must just be a bad time of year. I sent off for mine 16days ago and still no money taken out the account. Not holding my breath but hopefully it'll be through soon.
Spike
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17 working days so far and it will apparently be at least 3 more....
They did send my documents and logbook back on request though, a very efficient lady called Vicky is the one to speak to...
They did send my documents and logbook back on request though, a very efficient lady called Vicky is the one to speak to...
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My licence, log book and everything else, apart from my passport, went to some poor chap who was waiting for his radio licence?!? He very kindly phoned me and then posted it recorded delivery
Not quite sure how they managed that!
F-Wyg
Not quite sure how they managed that!
F-Wyg
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The CAA have been unundated with applications for licences.
I can tell you that as at Monday 28th July they were processing applications received on 7th July.
Once your fee has been debited to your credit card and/or receipt issued, this marks the spot where your application has been accepted as being "correct". The license is then "loaded" for printing which takes I believe another week to 10 days.
...my fee was taken on Wednesday and hopefully now only a short wait.
nb. the above is from "inside" knowledge and hope it helps !
I can tell you that as at Monday 28th July they were processing applications received on 7th July.
Once your fee has been debited to your credit card and/or receipt issued, this marks the spot where your application has been accepted as being "correct". The license is then "loaded" for printing which takes I believe another week to 10 days.
...my fee was taken on Wednesday and hopefully now only a short wait.
nb. the above is from "inside" knowledge and hope it helps !
Last edited by DaventryCTA; 2nd Aug 2003 at 03:58.
The Original Whirly
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foghorn,
I wanted to go to Gatwick to get my FI rating issued on the spot, but was told by someone who'd tried that the only way they'll do that now is if you need the licence/rating for a job, and take a letter from your future employer saying so. Don't think there's any way round the wait now, but I phoned them and hassled them every couple of days; I'd waited weeks for my CPL due to some mix-up, and I wasn't going though that again.
BTW, helicopter licences are quite a nice shade of pale grey. Very discreet, but I do like purple...so maybe I should learn to fly a balloon!
I wanted to go to Gatwick to get my FI rating issued on the spot, but was told by someone who'd tried that the only way they'll do that now is if you need the licence/rating for a job, and take a letter from your future employer saying so. Don't think there's any way round the wait now, but I phoned them and hassled them every couple of days; I'd waited weeks for my CPL due to some mix-up, and I wasn't going though that again.
BTW, helicopter licences are quite a nice shade of pale grey. Very discreet, but I do like purple...so maybe I should learn to fly a balloon!
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Whirlybird
Because of the shortage of commercial positions, alot of CPL's are appplying to become FI's - the CAA have a large backlog at the moment and the wait for all licences is inevitably going to get worse as CAA staff take their summer hols.
One word of advice that can benefit us ALL - don't keep 'phoning them at Gatwick - their time is better spent dealing with our applications.
Because of the shortage of commercial positions, alot of CPL's are appplying to become FI's - the CAA have a large backlog at the moment and the wait for all licences is inevitably going to get worse as CAA staff take their summer hols.
One word of advice that can benefit us ALL - don't keep 'phoning them at Gatwick - their time is better spent dealing with our applications.
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I feel sorry for you Brits. In Sweden ... when we do the final examiner checkride ... he/she issues a temporary license on the spot, which you can fly on for a limited time until the real license arrives
Why the CAA would prevent a pilot from exercising the privileges of a license pending the completion of bureaucratic paper-pushing is beyond me. I also don't understand why a passport would be required for issuance of a license (I don't recall what form of identification is required here, but certainly there is no insistance upon a passport, a driver's license would be fine). And the very idea of sending my precious logbook off to Government Land ...
No thank you!!!
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but certainly there is no insistance upon a passport, a driver's license would be fine).
Here you are supposed to show photo ID to the examiner before the test, so if the test pass certificate has the same name and address as the logbook and medical, I don't see the need to send photo ID to the CAA - what could they possibly check it against unless you were physically present? Perhaps they just keep a copy of your photo on record?
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Well, one can wonder....
It is a scandal that, first of all, you have to wait that long to get a licence (and therefore not being able to enjoy the full privileges of your licence in the meantime), and secondly, that they mess up with some people as stated in the Forum....
The idea of a temporary licence issued by the FE like in other countries would make more sense.... but hey, administration is not not synonymous with pragmatism, we should all know that !!
I think that they forget the price of the licence issue fee - £146 - .... !
For that price, you would expect a decent, quick service, and a nice-looking licence...
Cheers
It is a scandal that, first of all, you have to wait that long to get a licence (and therefore not being able to enjoy the full privileges of your licence in the meantime), and secondly, that they mess up with some people as stated in the Forum....
The idea of a temporary licence issued by the FE like in other countries would make more sense.... but hey, administration is not not synonymous with pragmatism, we should all know that !!
I think that they forget the price of the licence issue fee - £146 - .... !
For that price, you would expect a decent, quick service, and a nice-looking licence... Cheers
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Had a package through the post yesterday, postman woke me up, just done a nightshift and had 2 hrs sleep when the door went, she had this package and I thought YES I may have it, but alas it was my logbook etc being returned, there was a letter inside saying I had forgotten to send my Skill Test Report , can you believe that? I have waited 3-4 weeks only to have forgotten that, I read it on the application form but didnt really get what they meant, must have been the exitement of passing etc,
Anyway the letter said they have a turn around time of 19 working days at present but would endeavour to send my liscence 'within' this time period. Heres hoping.
So all you guys applying you have to wait 19 working days
oh, and remember to send your skill test report
, can you believe that? I have waited 3-4 weeks only to have forgotten that, I read it on the application form but didnt really get what they meant, must have been the exitement of passing etc,Anyway the letter said they have a turn around time of 19 working days at present but would endeavour to send my liscence 'within' this time period. Heres hoping.
So all you guys applying you have to wait 19 working days
oh, and remember to send your skill test report
Personally I think that your Examiner should be required to cross-check ALL your paperwork before it goes off to the CAA. Your logbook should be up-to-date, your PPL application form all drafted out - so all you should have to do is to send it off as soon as you've passed the Skill Test having added the Skill Test flight time.....
I thought that the CAA was obliged under their charter to complete licence issue within 10 working days of having received the application. Assuming that it's been properly submitted, of course.
I thought that the CAA was obliged under their charter to complete licence issue within 10 working days of having received the application. Assuming that it's been properly submitted, of course.
Slight correction to Reddo's comment: In Oz you may only exercise the privileges of a licence, rating or endorsement once it has been issued. Therein lies the rub. Ratings and endorsements may be issued by an approved person, in which case they can be used immediately that person signs the sticky label.
Licences however are the preserve of CASA, and CASA alone. You can't exercise the privilege of the licence until it's issued. CASA are the only ones who can issue licences so you have to wait until they do their thing before you can go play.
Licences however are the preserve of CASA, and CASA alone. You can't exercise the privilege of the licence until it's issued. CASA are the only ones who can issue licences so you have to wait until they do their thing before you can go play.
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I posted my application on the 14th July and then read this thread at about 10:30 this morning (4th August). I too have only included a photocopy of my passport - not the original.
So panic stricken I began penning an e-mail to FCL to see if I could send in my passport so it would be there ready for the appication (didn't want them to send the WHOLE lot back and have to start again!).
Got about half way thorugh typing when my phone rang. "Hello, Mr. Bowman? This is the CAA". "We have opened your application today and all is in order but there is a small problem in that we need your passport, or a FTO certified copy of it".
So at lunch I made a mad dash home to get it, posted it Special Delivery and now wait again.
I asked how long it would be, assuming they get the PP tomorrow. He said "it's hard to say. We're very busy. Probably the end of the week or early next week". Which seems quite promising....
Why they have been sending EVERYTHING back to people and then 'back of the queing' them is hard to see when all they need is a passport posting...
So panic stricken I began penning an e-mail to FCL to see if I could send in my passport so it would be there ready for the appication (didn't want them to send the WHOLE lot back and have to start again!).
Got about half way thorugh typing when my phone rang. "Hello, Mr. Bowman? This is the CAA". "We have opened your application today and all is in order but there is a small problem in that we need your passport, or a FTO certified copy of it".
So at lunch I made a mad dash home to get it, posted it Special Delivery and now wait again.
I asked how long it would be, assuming they get the PP tomorrow. He said "it's hard to say. We're very busy. Probably the end of the week or early next week". Which seems quite promising....
Why they have been sending EVERYTHING back to people and then 'back of the queing' them is hard to see when all they need is a passport posting...