My Blood is boiling - The CAA (licencing)
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Flock1 - I sympathise with your frustration.
FWIW, I brought my completed application to the CAA front desk and had them check that all the bits were present and correct there and then. They photocopied birth cert and passport and whatever else they wanted and gave me the originals back, just keeping the logbook and application form.
At least I was fairly confident that the application wouldn't get stalled - it still took 6 weeks tho' despite a couple of calls. There was about a week between payment on my visa card and getting the licence.
SD
FWIW, I brought my completed application to the CAA front desk and had them check that all the bits were present and correct there and then. They photocopied birth cert and passport and whatever else they wanted and gave me the originals back, just keeping the logbook and application form.
At least I was fairly confident that the application wouldn't get stalled - it still took 6 weeks tho' despite a couple of calls. There was about a week between payment on my visa card and getting the licence.
SD
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I recieved my passport back ok then I got a letter stating the money had been paid. A few days later and about 4 weeks after I sent everything off I got my licence and log book back but my medical certificate was nowhere to be found. Knowing that my licence wasnt valid without it I rang the CAA. Licencing claimed that it should have been there as they only send back complete licences so I phoned medical where I was told that my medical was in the process of being reissued as the restriction had now moved to my licence. Within 2 days of the phone call to medical my medical certificate arrived back.
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It should be here soon, Flock - mine turned up a couple of days after the invoice (which arrived three weeks after they charged my credit card!) and that seems to be normal. But...
Oh boy... it looks 
ing horrible. Anybody with a small baby is very familiar with the colour 
and you would have to try quite hard to make it look any worse 
And you may all laugh at me here - but as I have never ever seen a pilots licence, I'm hoping that when it does (if it does) arrive, that it looks impressive
ing horrible. Anybody with a small baby is very familiar with the colour and you would have to try quite hard to make it look any worse
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I feel sorry for u britts 
In sweden we send in a birth certificate, police records, and medical exam papers to the swedish CAA to get a "Student Lincense" and Medical before beginning education.
When we do the final examiner checkride, he/she looks att the logbook, checks your photo-ID, your school records and talks to the CFI of the school, then, if you pass, he fills in a real PPL(A) license application which he sends in. And then the GOOD part, he/she issues a temporary license on the spot, which you can fly on for a limited time until the real license arrives, is that GREAT or what!!! And this under JAR-FCL.
In sweden we send in a birth certificate, police records, and medical exam papers to the swedish CAA to get a "Student Lincense" and Medical before beginning education.
When we do the final examiner checkride, he/she looks att the logbook, checks your photo-ID, your school records and talks to the CFI of the school, then, if you pass, he fills in a real PPL(A) license application which he sends in. And then the GOOD part, he/she issues a temporary license on the spot, which you can fly on for a limited time until the real license arrives, is that GREAT or what!!! And this under JAR-FCL.
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Just to go against the grain a little and back up the CAA! The "Liscence Loading" man only works one or two days a week! (There aren't that many aviators requiring bits and pieces to make it a full time job).
And just to gloat I got mine in 2 days - friends and family working for the CAA is pretty handy occasionally!
And just to gloat I got mine in 2 days - friends and family working for the CAA is pretty handy occasionally!
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GRRRRRRRRRR! This makes me really angry to think the CAA can charge you £160 or whatever it is to go through all this bureaucratic crap and take as long as they want about it. Should be left to CFIs who then inform the CAA whenever they issue a license.
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Kirstey,
not having a go at you but I have to say i find it appalling that your licence should be fast tracked because of contacts in the office. Those people waiting for weeks and the ATPLs unable to work should be complaining bitterly if that is the case.
It is blatantly obvious with the delays that there is a greater need than a couple of days work a week in the office issuing these.
not having a go at you but I have to say i find it appalling that your licence should be fast tracked because of contacts in the office. Those people waiting for weeks and the ATPLs unable to work should be complaining bitterly if that is the case.
It is blatantly obvious with the delays that there is a greater need than a couple of days work a week in the office issuing these.
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Andrew, Flower,
I can't think of a reason why a paper licence is needed at all. An online inquiry to the CAA would be a much cheaper and more reliable method of establishing a person's flying credentials.
After all the actual pilot's licence is an intangible permission to fly granted by state. I can imagine that, in the pre-computer age, a special piece of paper complete with signatures and rubber stamps, must have been a great way of showing that this licence existed. But these days a printed paper record of anything at all looks like a weak form of evidence. Anybody who wants to know whether I am licensed should be able to do so by asking the CAA directly, e.g. via their website. (The sort of people who would want to know are almost certainly in possession of a computer. )
Maybe I should write to the ICAO and JAA to point this out.
I can't think of a reason why a paper licence is needed at all. An online inquiry to the CAA would be a much cheaper and more reliable method of establishing a person's flying credentials.
After all the actual pilot's licence is an intangible permission to fly granted by state. I can imagine that, in the pre-computer age, a special piece of paper complete with signatures and rubber stamps, must have been a great way of showing that this licence existed. But these days a printed paper record of anything at all looks like a weak form of evidence. Anybody who wants to know whether I am licensed should be able to do so by asking the CAA directly, e.g. via their website. (The sort of people who would want to know are almost certainly in possession of a computer. )
Maybe I should write to the ICAO and JAA to point this out.
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Ssssshhh... don't tell the CAA, but when I applied for my FAA reciprocal, I sent my credit card details to the CAA so they could take the required £15, and they never took it! So is IS possible to be a winner!
As for the PPL - Inside the s**t-brown plastic cover, the license is simply 4 or 5 sheets of laser printed A4. Now, anybody with a PC and a copy of MS Word could..... Well, obviously I'm not condoning this, but it does rather support the points made above about the lack of need for a piece of paper at all.
As for the PPL - Inside the s**t-brown plastic cover, the license is simply 4 or 5 sheets of laser printed A4. Now, anybody with a PC and a copy of MS Word could..... Well, obviously I'm not condoning this, but it does rather support the points made above about the lack of need for a piece of paper at all.
Last edited by knobbygb; 30th Jul 2003 at 18:51.
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Flower,
Agree with you entirely! However, I have limited morals!
The Americans have the right idea, issue a temporay airmans cert. Then it doesn't matter how long it all takes! The examiner knows you're safe to fly and act as PIC. The beaurocracy can be done later at the CAAs own time.
Agree with you entirely! However, I have limited morals!
The Americans have the right idea, issue a temporay airmans cert. Then it doesn't matter how long it all takes! The examiner knows you're safe to fly and act as PIC. The beaurocracy can be done later at the CAAs own time.
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There has to be a better way..............and a better colour for the licence
In fairness mine was through in about 3 weeks, with all items returned successfully. I contacted them once and got through quite quickly and found them helpful. Now I am sounding pro CAA but I am sure the luck will run out sooner or later.
There is certainly enough work to make the job full time though. One week should be more than enough to get the licence back.
Just a point to debate. Many people when they saw my licence were very surprised that there wasn't a photo requirement on it like with the driving licence. No security marks or holograms, nothing. Post 9/11 you would think they would make these things more secure.
In fairness mine was through in about 3 weeks, with all items returned successfully. I contacted them once and got through quite quickly and found them helpful. Now I am sounding pro CAA but I am sure the luck will run out sooner or later.
There is certainly enough work to make the job full time though. One week should be more than enough to get the licence back.
Just a point to debate. Many people when they saw my licence were very surprised that there wasn't a photo requirement on it like with the driving licence. No security marks or holograms, nothing. Post 9/11 you would think they would make these things more secure.
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Kirstey,
Last time I was issued with a TAC it was only valid for a finite time (90 days I think but long since binned it), we would obviously hope that 3 months would be more than enough time for them to issue your licence though.....errr ok.....
The TAC is simply a single sheet piece of paper filled in by the examiner on sucessful completion of your test, the pucker licence is a errrr....slightly smaller single sheet piece of cardboard. At least now I know why the UK licences as so much more expensive....all that plastic with pockets in them and extra bits of paper....very costly...
Julian
Last time I was issued with a TAC it was only valid for a finite time (90 days I think but long since binned it), we would obviously hope that 3 months would be more than enough time for them to issue your licence though.....errr ok.....
The TAC is simply a single sheet piece of paper filled in by the examiner on sucessful completion of your test, the pucker licence is a errrr....slightly smaller single sheet piece of cardboard. At least now I know why the UK licences as so much more expensive....all that plastic with pockets in them and extra bits of paper....very costly...
Julian
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A 'nice shade of tan' was the best description I've seen of it.
'S**t brown' was the least complementary.
'S**t brown' was the least complementary.
PPL(B)s would appear to be more tasteful
[ Edited to add: that's not mine, unfortunately
]
Last edited by RomeoTangoFoxtrotMike; 30th Jul 2003 at 20:43.
I don't know, purple licences, right of way everywhere you go, you are the authorities' little pets, aren't you? 
Thread Starter
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So why do they take so long to print (or be loaded) if they're such a basic thing. In fact, it reminds me of my old student union card - and I got that in five minutes!
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The German version is an ivory white for all certificates! It's long and skinny and can be folded to the size of a credit card. We used to have different stripes for the different kinds, but not any more. Having no photo is really dumb, especially after 9/11, but then the American one never had a photo!
@tyro
no way will ceritficates ever be only online! First of all, some pilots fly to faraway places where internet actually doesn't exist! And on the air field, I sure don't carry my computer around with me! And think of data-security!! I wouldn't want any and every idiot checking into my personal data!!! It's bad enough that the authorities can!
The idea of a temporary certificate is good.
I thought the whole JAR-FCL stuff was supposed to make everything the same!! why is it done everywhere different then?
Westy
@tyro
no way will ceritficates ever be only online! First of all, some pilots fly to faraway places where internet actually doesn't exist! And on the air field, I sure don't carry my computer around with me! And think of data-security!! I wouldn't want any and every idiot checking into my personal data!!! It's bad enough that the authorities can!
The idea of a temporary certificate is good.
I thought the whole JAR-FCL stuff was supposed to make everything the same!! why is it done everywhere different then?
Westy