Crossing the Channel
Helicopter Pilots Get It Up Quicker
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 885
Likes: 0
From:
OK so I said I was outta here but I seem to have a little support, so...
Again I would reiterate I am not in ANY trying to humilate or put down Sami or anyone else in a similar position. If anything I am pleased that he is sensible enough to realise his limits and ask for help. I ve worked things out that I didn't know - it probably would have been quicker to ask somewhere like PPRUNE but guess I m too proud and would rather work it out and then get it checked.
What bugs me is the superior attitude that CAA is best when it obviously isn't and the lack of on going support Sami seems to be receiving.
Maybe I am lucky but I have used the same instructor from 2 hrs to CPL and now into CFII and hopefully IR, (yes Whirly I finally sold it!), I know he is only an email or call away if I have a problem or need info. Maybe he is the exception - he teaches because he enjoys it and not for hour building...
The PPL is a licence to learn - a good FI will ensure that happens and not desert you the minute you pass your GFT and stop giving him/her a regular income, (I appreciate for various reasons you may have to change training establishments - but again I think that is/was a failing on the part of the school not the pilot). I m not keen to instruct but have no option, BUT hope that I will still put my 'all' into my students and continue to support them after their licence issue.
Every new challenge I have attempted has either been done with or checked with my FI first or in the company of another competent pilot to double check each other. Flying should be fun not frightening - thats why we do it!
Sami - sorry if as others believe I have humiliated you. Take the offers of flying with someone more experienced and go cross channel - even with low hours and enjoy it - maybe some day you can 'escort' another new PPL...
PW
PS Don't worry about the engine sounding rough - they all do that just after you cross the coastline!!
Again I would reiterate I am not in ANY trying to humilate or put down Sami or anyone else in a similar position. If anything I am pleased that he is sensible enough to realise his limits and ask for help. I ve worked things out that I didn't know - it probably would have been quicker to ask somewhere like PPRUNE but guess I m too proud and would rather work it out and then get it checked.
What bugs me is the superior attitude that CAA is best when it obviously isn't and the lack of on going support Sami seems to be receiving.
Maybe I am lucky but I have used the same instructor from 2 hrs to CPL and now into CFII and hopefully IR, (yes Whirly I finally sold it!), I know he is only an email or call away if I have a problem or need info. Maybe he is the exception - he teaches because he enjoys it and not for hour building...
The PPL is a licence to learn - a good FI will ensure that happens and not desert you the minute you pass your GFT and stop giving him/her a regular income, (I appreciate for various reasons you may have to change training establishments - but again I think that is/was a failing on the part of the school not the pilot). I m not keen to instruct but have no option, BUT hope that I will still put my 'all' into my students and continue to support them after their licence issue.
Every new challenge I have attempted has either been done with or checked with my FI first or in the company of another competent pilot to double check each other. Flying should be fun not frightening - thats why we do it!
Sami - sorry if as others believe I have humiliated you. Take the offers of flying with someone more experienced and go cross channel - even with low hours and enjoy it - maybe some day you can 'escort' another new PPL...
PW
PS Don't worry about the engine sounding rough - they all do that just after you cross the coastline!!
The Original Whirly
Joined: Feb 1999
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
Posts: 4,327
Likes: 2
From: Belper, Derbyshire, UK
pilotwolf,
You have been very lucky. In fact I'm really envious.
I had about six instructors for my PPL(A) - and no, I didn't frighten them all off, honest! Although I could ask for advice, phoning them wasn't really done - if they were there you could ask, if not....well, I got advice as and when and where I could, or I didn't, as the case may be.
For my PPL(H) it was a little easier, and I did phone my instructors (I had two). I don't like to generalise about this as I don't really know, but I think that kind of relationship is more common in the helo world, perhaps because helo instructors earn more, and also because there are less students and they're determined to keep those they've got (I'm a cynic I know). But the sort of relationship you're describing just isn't that common. It should be, but it isn't.
I realised recently what I hadn't known - ANYONE can start a flying school, employ a freelance instructor or two as and when required, and start advertising for students. As someone pointed out to me, how else could it be; the checks and balances are at the instructor and examiner end of things. True...but it still seems all wrong to me.
You have been very lucky. In fact I'm really envious.
I had about six instructors for my PPL(A) - and no, I didn't frighten them all off, honest! Although I could ask for advice, phoning them wasn't really done - if they were there you could ask, if not....well, I got advice as and when and where I could, or I didn't, as the case may be.
For my PPL(H) it was a little easier, and I did phone my instructors (I had two). I don't like to generalise about this as I don't really know, but I think that kind of relationship is more common in the helo world, perhaps because helo instructors earn more, and also because there are less students and they're determined to keep those they've got (I'm a cynic I know). But the sort of relationship you're describing just isn't that common. It should be, but it isn't.
I realised recently what I hadn't known - ANYONE can start a flying school, employ a freelance instructor or two as and when required, and start advertising for students. As someone pointed out to me, how else could it be; the checks and balances are at the instructor and examiner end of things. True...but it still seems all wrong to me.
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,189
Likes: 0
From: Earth
Hey chaps, Pilotwolf has explained what he thinks and lets get things into perspective....
1. Samir has DECIDED not to cross the channel. He was not persuaded not to do it.
2. Pilotwolf was the first person to reply to his question and probably didn't mean to sound as harsh as he appeared to.
3. There have been some really kind offers to Samir with help and even an offer to meet up by Keef.
4. Life is short...........there aren't really that many people who fly JUST for fun...............lets bloody well get on like we normally do. If this thread ends here at least one thing will have been achieved and that is that Samir won't think he's entered a world of bitchin' by getting his licence.
Good night
1. Samir has DECIDED not to cross the channel. He was not persuaded not to do it.
2. Pilotwolf was the first person to reply to his question and probably didn't mean to sound as harsh as he appeared to.
3. There have been some really kind offers to Samir with help and even an offer to meet up by Keef.
4. Life is short...........there aren't really that many people who fly JUST for fun...............lets bloody well get on like we normally do. If this thread ends here at least one thing will have been achieved and that is that Samir won't think he's entered a world of bitchin' by getting his licence.
Good night
Not so N, but still FG
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 1,417
Likes: 0
From: London, UK
A few observations:-
(1) I don't agree with pilotwolf's apparent attempt to re-start the frankly tedious debate on whether training in the US is better than training in the UK. As far as I can tell, pilotwolf's position tends to be pro US, but: (a) it looks as though that is where Samir trained, and (b) who cares? the quality of your training depends upon the quality of your training, and where you find the training seems to me to be irrelevant. I am sorry that Whirly found that she couldn't talk much to her instructors. I always thought that drinking coffee, beer, and talking lots and lots and lots about every aspect of flying with your instructor was part of the course [actually, I didn't think this: perhaps I was just lucky in learning with people who were about as uninterested in getting right- hand-seat jobs in 737s as I am].
(2) I nonetheless think that pilotwolf has been somewhat unduly flamed and that people generally have been a bit too modern-touchy-feely-cuddly-luvvy-all-have-done-well-and-all-shall-have-prizes about this whole thing. I am all in favour of encouraging open discussion and the asking of questions, but I would also encourage people to re-read the opening post in this thread and ponder on what it suggests about pilot training. Even the saintly keef had to (gently and kindly) pull Samir up on the FL60 idea.
(3) Pilotwolf raises a legitimate point about the sort of PPL course which turns out a pilot who has the outlook (not merely the knowledge level) displayed by the opening post.
(4) I am much ruder than pilotwolf, and am curious as to what drove someone to acquire a PPL (usually a sign of a slightly extroverted personality) who seems so reliant upon having his hand held. Aerobatic Flyer refers to his experience in learning to fly in mountains (I am very jealous: I want to do this but have not yet found the time to do so), but I am not convinced that the sensible caution in gaining this skill of a pilot who is sufficiently adventurous to acquire the skill in the first place is comparable with the perhaps excessive caution and narrowness of ambition which some types of pilot training seem to inculcate in some new PPLs.
(5) Fire at will.
(1) I don't agree with pilotwolf's apparent attempt to re-start the frankly tedious debate on whether training in the US is better than training in the UK. As far as I can tell, pilotwolf's position tends to be pro US, but: (a) it looks as though that is where Samir trained, and (b) who cares? the quality of your training depends upon the quality of your training, and where you find the training seems to me to be irrelevant. I am sorry that Whirly found that she couldn't talk much to her instructors. I always thought that drinking coffee, beer, and talking lots and lots and lots about every aspect of flying with your instructor was part of the course [actually, I didn't think this: perhaps I was just lucky in learning with people who were about as uninterested in getting right- hand-seat jobs in 737s as I am].
(2) I nonetheless think that pilotwolf has been somewhat unduly flamed and that people generally have been a bit too modern-touchy-feely-cuddly-luvvy-all-have-done-well-and-all-shall-have-prizes about this whole thing. I am all in favour of encouraging open discussion and the asking of questions, but I would also encourage people to re-read the opening post in this thread and ponder on what it suggests about pilot training. Even the saintly keef had to (gently and kindly) pull Samir up on the FL60 idea.
(3) Pilotwolf raises a legitimate point about the sort of PPL course which turns out a pilot who has the outlook (not merely the knowledge level) displayed by the opening post.
(4) I am much ruder than pilotwolf, and am curious as to what drove someone to acquire a PPL (usually a sign of a slightly extroverted personality) who seems so reliant upon having his hand held. Aerobatic Flyer refers to his experience in learning to fly in mountains (I am very jealous: I want to do this but have not yet found the time to do so), but I am not convinced that the sensible caution in gaining this skill of a pilot who is sufficiently adventurous to acquire the skill in the first place is comparable with the perhaps excessive caution and narrowness of ambition which some types of pilot training seem to inculcate in some new PPLs.
(5) Fire at will.
Last edited by FNG; 24th January 2003 at 06:08.
The Original Whirly
Joined: Feb 1999
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
Posts: 4,327
Likes: 2
From: Belper, Derbyshire, UK
If I may say so, this is beginning to get bloody silly. This is a forum for aviation, not psychoanalysis. Pilots are of all types and ages and abilities, and so are instructors, on both sides of the pond. We all have different experiences, and we all somehow get it together and learn to fly both before and after getting our licences. Someone asked a few questions, and the amount of stuff that got read into it...!!!! 
Even when I was working as a psychologist I'd never have managed all this!!!!!
Sami, don't take too much notice of it all. And please don't let it colour your view of PPRuNe. On the whole PPRuNers are a nice bunch who simply answer the question you asked, not go flying off on 101 tangents. What happened here? I dunno, but if I were you I'd take what you can from it and ignore the rest...and go flying.
Even when I was working as a psychologist I'd never have managed all this!!!!! Sami, don't take too much notice of it all. And please don't let it colour your view of PPRuNe. On the whole PPRuNers are a nice bunch who simply answer the question you asked, not go flying off on 101 tangents. What happened here? I dunno, but if I were you I'd take what you can from it and ignore the rest...and go flying.
