Large Circuit Patterns

[Another_CFI]

Simonh11, Your circuits do appear to be a touch large. I reckon that a typical circuit takes around 5 minutes, giving my students 10 circuits for 50 minutes airborne (almost 50% more value than flying your 7 minute circuit).

[Chuck Ellsworth]

We have the same problem at our local airport, flying school training using a twelve mile circuit, almost everyone else flys a normal circuit that is eight miles.

The mileage is easy to figure by measuring it on the airport chart.

Now can anyone tell me why there are to many checks going on in training airplanes to teach normal circuits?

I just can't figure out why these flying schools cannot teach students to fly proper circuits that will not screw up everyone else who are unfortunate enough to arrive at the airport while these people are flying.

Cat Driver:

[flyboy6876]

I've noticed that a lot of the commentary here appears to centre around peoples home airfields. It seems to me that if a person is taught to fly a circuit which is based on certain landmarks and to meet noise abatement procedures, what will occur if the pilot now joins a circuit at an away field? Will this not throw them out a bit?

IMHO, I would have thought that a "standard" circuit should be taught, regardless of the airfield. This would perhaps minimise the "large" circuit syndrome.

Just a thought and I'd like to read more instructors thoughts on this.

[jonathang]

The CAA are putting emphasis on the ability to reach the field from any point within the circuit pattern during an Engine failure. Not always in the runway direction, but at least the field.

Does that not suggest that Tight circuits are critcally important?

[Aussie Andy]

It's very simple: if the NIMBYs kick up enough fuss then, for noise abatement reasons, you'll have a larger-than-ideal circuit. That doesn't mean its a good thing, but needs must...

Having said that, I had the wonderful experience of practicing some very tight curvy circuits at a military airfield over the weekend... and its clearly preferable where possible to be as tight as this in the circuit!

[FlyingForFun]

Flyin'Dutch', could you please explain how the 45-degree join eliminates the problem of circuit traffic popping up under joining traffic? The traffic joins in the same place, at the same height, as for an overhead join - just from a different direction. Each joining method has its own advantages and disadvantages, but I can't see how this particular point is affected by the type of join in use.

You also asked "Does this indicate that anyone who flies a wide circuit per definition does not sub to any of these forums or are we all 'guilty' of flying a wider circuit than we think." Yes, I'm sure you're right. Well, everyone except me, of course, because I'm perfect Actually, although I know what I nice tight circuit looks like, and I used to fly them regularly in the two months I was flying in the US, it's so rare that I get to practice them in the UK that when the opportunity does present itself now I probably tend to fly a bigger circuit than ideal, just because I'm not used to being so tight.

EastMids, does the airfield you fly from use an overhead join? Here's the reason I ask: you say that you are at 1000' well before the upwind end of the runway. And traffic joining overhead would be aiming to cross the upwind end of the runway at 1000'.... I'll let you figure it out from there!

Personally, if I'm at an airfield where overhead joins are used, and the runway is long enough, or my aircraft is powerful enough, to be close to circuit height before the end of the runway, I'll level off at 500', and then carry on climbing once I'm past the end of the runway, to avoid conflicting with joining traffic. Of course, it's not a problem if overhead joins aren't used at that airfield.

FFF
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[Julian]

Flyboy makes an excellent point and one which is unfortunately seems all too common. People get into the habit of turning crosswind, base, final, etc at landmarks rather than from visual clues either from the aircrafts instruments or from the runway perspective from the cockpit - the upshot being that when they venture away from their homebase or to a different type of airfield they make a complete hash of it!

I have to say I have never had to level off on the runway at 500' for traffic whilst flying circuits and recommence the climbout later on. I have always used 300' T&Ps, 500' throttle/manifold pressure reduction, 700' turn crosswind, 1000' S&L. On IFR climbouts I have always been given the altitude to turn at in the clearance, i.e. 'Fly runway heading until 800' then left turn to heading 200', vectors for.....'

[FlyingForFun]

But Julian, I'd guess there aren't too many people doing overhead joins if you're departing IFR from a controlled field? See the last sentence of my previous post!

And as for turning at landmarks, I agree - but last week I posted describing how this can be avoided. As I said, I fly from an airfield with published circuit procedures which call for turns at particular points for noise abatement reasons. I've never had problems at other airfields, though, and I believe that's because of the quality of my PPL instruction. A bit of thought from instructors in the way they teach circuits is all that's required to combine the requirements of noise abatement with those of learning.

FFF
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[Julian]

FFF,

Yes there are overhead joins on airfields with departing IFR traffic. The airfield I was using last week has you do an overhead join if coming in VFR and report over the airfield 'at or above 1500'

[englishal]

I think the 45° join used in the States is safer. The reason being you join on the 45° for MIDFIELD downwind, so theoretically you should descend on the 45 to be at circuit height by the time you are downwind midfield. Anyone already in the circuit should be at pattern altitude by the time they turn downwind, and as the other aircraft will be joining at 45° it gives both pilots of both aircrafts better oportunity to see each other. As FFF says, if you're flying a powerful A/C and have a long runway, it is possibly to be near circuit height not far from the end of the runway. In the UK SOH Join factor into that the joining pilots inaccurate flying, maybe slightly low, maybe slightly further upwind than anticipated and you have a recepie for disaster. The 45 join can be combined with an overhead, fly over the airport 1000'+ above TPA, look at your windsocks or whatever, then depending which circuit is in use continue [or turn] outbound, and when at a safe distance turn onto the 45 and start descent to circuit height.

Cheers
EA