Set up a DC-3 group?
Join Date: May 2002
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Is it worth opening this up to other forums. Might get someone who's done this before, or military chaps with a spare corner of hangar :-). Could sell different grades of shares, full flying for those with a twin rating, passenger only for non PPL's and something in between for PPL SEP. Might attract more people.
Could paint it in PPRUNE colours and get sponsorship from Dan the man.
CC
Could paint it in PPRUNE colours and get sponsorship from Dan the man.
CC
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as in all plane sales: the seller (if they are experienced) can be knocked down by 40%.
I'd be interested. If it was based at Duxford, then all the better. I'd think it needs to be converted to a easy PAX configuration to get the best returns back. I can't see that para dropping and film work being that lucrative.
I'd be interested. If it was based at Duxford, then all the better. I'd think it needs to be converted to a easy PAX configuration to get the best returns back. I can't see that para dropping and film work being that lucrative.
Why do it if it's not fun?
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Also remember that, if you're going to be paid for film work, etc. you'll need a CPL. Even cost-sharing isn't a realistic option for PPL-owners, since you can't cost-share between more than 4 people.
If anyone on this forum goes ahead with this, I'd like to put my name down for a ride... and possibly some stick time, too!
I will, of course, contribute to the cost of the flight!
FFF
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If anyone on this forum goes ahead with this, I'd like to put my name down for a ride... and possibly some stick time, too!
I will, of course, contribute to the cost of the flight!FFF
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QDMx3, I'd love to come to Eggesford and sample an Auster on steroids! I've heard the Broussard and the Auster have similar landing characteristics due to the castoring tailwheel 
Regarding the CPL issue I think the best course of action would be to form a Ltd. Co. around the aeroplane and have a nominated display pilot. That way the Co. gets paid for any displays to offset the OpEx and the pilot does it for fun.
So does anybody know what the parking / landing fess are at Duxford?
Regarding the CPL issue I think the best course of action would be to form a Ltd. Co. around the aeroplane and have a nominated display pilot. That way the Co. gets paid for any displays to offset the OpEx and the pilot does it for fun.
So does anybody know what the parking / landing fess are at Duxford?
Join Date: Oct 2001
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Now if you guys want to look at another airplane that gives you the thrill of round piston pounding engines with the thrill of a real tail wheel airplane here is a suggestion.
There is a Beech 18 parked at North Weald and it has most of the mods that make the B18 a true pilots airplane. The fuel cost to operate it is almost half of the DC3.
The airplane is owned by Clive and Mark Edwards who I work with, if you want a real nice pilots airplane go look at that one.
If you like it and buy it I will teach you how to fly it, you will love it.
Cat Driver:
There is a Beech 18 parked at North Weald and it has most of the mods that make the B18 a true pilots airplane. The fuel cost to operate it is almost half of the DC3.
The airplane is owned by Clive and Mark Edwards who I work with, if you want a real nice pilots airplane go look at that one.
If you like it and buy it I will teach you how to fly it, you will love it.
Cat Driver:
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It is true that the interior is bare at the momoent. And the ridiculous metal panelling will have to be removed. The current colour scheme is just theatrical paint after some recent film work. I believe its silver underneath (proper Dak colour!)
I am reliably informed that the recently recovered seats are part of the deal, as are reconditioned props which, when I last checked, where boxed up ready to go to the States to have the work done (already paid for) but are sitting in a North Weald hangar at the mo.
The "Ground Crew" who used to show people around it at airshows and do all the other "ground crew" stuff, have been helping us enormously with the Antonov An2 recently. They know a fair bit about what you could do with it and what works or not for making a few quid to cover costs.
I also know of a ATPL with 500 hours DC-3 time who was interested in doing the commercial flying bit if we could do a deal and another who was ready to write a cheque if the price was right.
In fact, I've talked myself back into it. If anyone seriously wants to put a group togther then count me in, as long as we get a realistic buying price.
I am reliably informed that the recently recovered seats are part of the deal, as are reconditioned props which, when I last checked, where boxed up ready to go to the States to have the work done (already paid for) but are sitting in a North Weald hangar at the mo.
The "Ground Crew" who used to show people around it at airshows and do all the other "ground crew" stuff, have been helping us enormously with the Antonov An2 recently. They know a fair bit about what you could do with it and what works or not for making a few quid to cover costs.
I also know of a ATPL with 500 hours DC-3 time who was interested in doing the commercial flying bit if we could do a deal and another who was ready to write a cheque if the price was right.
In fact, I've talked myself back into it. If anyone seriously wants to put a group togther then count me in, as long as we get a realistic buying price.
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L & S :
England is a big place and there are still a few people with some money left that could afford to play with these toys.
Why not form a group and operate both these airplanes?
They are both availiable and at the same airfield.
If I had my choice between the two airplanes as to which one I perefer it would be a difficult choice.
I have over 5000 hrs on 3,s and around 2,000 hrs on 18's so I think I have figured out how to out think both types.
Cat Driver:
England is a big place and there are still a few people with some money left that could afford to play with these toys.
Why not form a group and operate both these airplanes?
They are both availiable and at the same airfield.
If I had my choice between the two airplanes as to which one I perefer it would be a difficult choice.
I have over 5000 hrs on 3,s and around 2,000 hrs on 18's so I think I have figured out how to out think both types.
Cat Driver:
Thread Starter
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Why not form a group and operate both these airplanes?
You are an evil, evil man.
Everyone -- I'd love to be involved if it gets off the ground, but my Super Cub leaves me skint and I'm 5-6 hours drive from the Duxford area anyway. Shame.
QDM
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Now this is getting interesting. It looks as if there just could be a possibility here. What it needs, of course, is someone with time, knowledge, and drive to make it happen and for those of us who have said we would be interested to back up our interest with a real commitment. Sadly I don't have time at present and failled when I last set about a challenge of this nature. Have managed to build groups around Chipmunk and Luscombe but the commitment here was much less.
The Beech is a good idea but not quite as impressive as the DC3. The Dak still gets all at an airfield to drop what they are doing and come have a look.
Duxford or Weald would be great for me - half hour flying time max in the C310.
The Beech is a good idea but not quite as impressive as the DC3. The Dak still gets all at an airfield to drop what they are doing and come have a look.
Duxford or Weald would be great for me - half hour flying time max in the C310.
Flies for fun
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One of these beasts followed me in to Calalina Island off the coast of L. A. it was still in service as a cargo aircraft. I watched it do a perfect landing, an awesome sight. I dread to think of the cost of a Cof A and hangerage!!!!!!!
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This looks promising,
I hope that the idea manages to get off the ground, personally I'd love to get involved, time isnt a problem, money is though, and like QDMQDMQDM Im too far away for it to be practicle.
Best of luck with it,
Rusty.
I hope that the idea manages to get off the ground, personally I'd love to get involved, time isnt a problem, money is though, and like QDMQDMQDM Im too far away for it to be practicle.
Best of luck with it,
Rusty.
Join Date: Aug 2002
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QDMx3 asked:
Yes, the company running it went into liquidation, taking lots of peoples’ money with it. Rather like European Flyers (upon which the web page you refer is hosted)
It may be a co-incidence, but Tony Holden was the director of European Flyers, and was ousted as a director of South Coast Airways, just before it went down as well.
P.S. There is a reason that G-DAKK Is being sold byt he receivers!
It may be a co-incidence, but Tony Holden was the director of European Flyers, and was ousted as a director of South Coast Airways, just before it went down as well.
A receiver sale is obviously negotiable and they IMHO stand no chance of getting the asking price.
Whayhay, cheap(!!!), chunky aeroplane up for grabs, let's do it.
Mmm, maybe not. Throwing that kind of cash at a pretty aeroplane without a solid idea of what the group wants to do with it and a solid agreement on how to finance and manage it is peeing in the wind chaps and chapettes
Committing a reasonable chunk of change into a big toy is easily done and easily regretted. It's no good going into a hissy fit if it's not there when you want to take the kids/friends to see it.
Not wishing to sound like an Anderson Droid, but a management structure has to be put in place and given the authority to manage the aeroplane. Obviously rules have to be put in place etc etc but it ain't going to be dreamland or am I just an old cynic
Whayhay, cheap(!!!), chunky aeroplane up for grabs, let's do it.
Mmm, maybe not. Throwing that kind of cash at a pretty aeroplane without a solid idea of what the group wants to do with it and a solid agreement on how to finance and manage it is peeing in the wind chaps and chapettes
Committing a reasonable chunk of change into a big toy is easily done and easily regretted. It's no good going into a hissy fit if it's not there when you want to take the kids/friends to see it.
Not wishing to sound like an Anderson Droid, but a management structure has to be put in place and given the authority to manage the aeroplane. Obviously rules have to be put in place etc etc but it ain't going to be dreamland or am I just an old cynic
Flies for fun
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A DC3 group is just a pipe dream, there is no realistic way that this group would work, now lets see, twenty people in the group so that's 20 people trained up to fly this taildragger. I suppose with 20 different pilots that it would be no problem for all of them to be up to speed with flying it and what is the cost of remaining current on an aircraft such as this? ok, so say that just 6 people would fly it and the remaining 14 members would be happy standing at the side of the runway watching? I think not!
I seriously don't believe the plan would work as a private group ownership even if the aircraft came for free. This thread belongs in jet blast !
I seriously don't believe the plan would work as a private group ownership even if the aircraft came for free. This thread belongs in jet blast !
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Who owns DC3 G-DAKK?
According to G-INFO at The CAA, G-DAKK is registered to General Technics Ltd.
At Companies House, General Technics Ltd is registered, with the same directors, as General Airline Ltd T/A European Flyers - In Liquidation.
There is no indication that General Technics Ltd is in Liquidation or Receivership.
There is a charge (aircraft mortgage) registered on G-DAKK to Close Brothers, for a loan agreement.
So one can only assume that the directors of General Techinics Ltd, have decided to sell G-DAKK, perhaps because it is not producing sufficient revenue to repay the loan to Close Brothers.
At Companies House, General Technics Ltd is registered, with the same directors, as General Airline Ltd T/A European Flyers - In Liquidation.
There is no indication that General Technics Ltd is in Liquidation or Receivership.
There is a charge (aircraft mortgage) registered on G-DAKK to Close Brothers, for a loan agreement.
So one can only assume that the directors of General Techinics Ltd, have decided to sell G-DAKK, perhaps because it is not producing sufficient revenue to repay the loan to Close Brothers.
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As one lucky enough to have accumulated 30 hrs hrs in DC3s (actually C47s for the pursists), I applaud the idea of building a group around one.
However, reality check ON
What are you actually going to do with it?
The 5 airframes that I was fortunate enough to experience were all used for delivering WFP aid into the African bush for a couple of UN contracted suppliers. These aeroplanes were work-horses and were treated very much as an aerobatic competitor treats his mount - a tool for the job!
However as a low timed MEP pilot but with comparitevely lots of tailwheel time, they were superb confidence building machines - wheel it on at 60 and with full fwd contol the tail gently settles at about 37. A lovely aeroplane!
With time, Russian operators of An 26/An32 won the contracts and the Dak dwindled mid nineties.
FF - yep you can get one in and out of my front garden easily!!
Stik
back from exile in Portugal
However, reality check ON
What are you actually going to do with it?
The 5 airframes that I was fortunate enough to experience were all used for delivering WFP aid into the African bush for a couple of UN contracted suppliers. These aeroplanes were work-horses and were treated very much as an aerobatic competitor treats his mount - a tool for the job!
However as a low timed MEP pilot but with comparitevely lots of tailwheel time, they were superb confidence building machines - wheel it on at 60 and with full fwd contol the tail gently settles at about 37. A lovely aeroplane!
With time, Russian operators of An 26/An32 won the contracts and the Dak dwindled mid nineties.
FF - yep you can get one in and out of my front garden easily!!
Stik
back from exile in Portugal
Forming A DC-3 Group
Interesting thread. I remember when I was a lad any number of DC-3 s were advertised in the back of Flight every week for about £12 K and since that day I have always wanted to get my hands on one.
No doubt I fall into the category of the rest of the posters here "...If somebody else wants to put together a deal count me in but I'm too busy/sensible/strapped for cash, to do it myself".
Now if there is somebody with masochistic tendencies out there ..... I can be at N Weald or Duxford in about 40 minutes from Fairoaks.
I'll keep an interested (but not altogether optimistic) eye out ....
No doubt I fall into the category of the rest of the posters here "...If somebody else wants to put together a deal count me in but I'm too busy/sensible/strapped for cash, to do it myself".
Now if there is somebody with masochistic tendencies out there ..... I can be at N Weald or Duxford in about 40 minutes from Fairoaks.
I'll keep an interested (but not altogether optimistic) eye out ....