Hopeless at landings
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Hopeless at landings
Anybody able to give me any comfort/advice on landings?
I'm a new student pilot (19 hours, 2 exams) trying to get my PPL getting frustrated that I still haven't gone solo.
Seem to be progressing ok through the syllabus, but have had only an hour or so circuit time with an instructor (it seems that every time I turn up to fly there's a northerly gusting straight across the runway ay 15kts!).
Roughly how many hours has it taken people doing circuits to get sufficiently happy with your landings to go solo?? Mine, so far, are pretty ropey!
Any advice appreciated!
I'm a new student pilot (19 hours, 2 exams) trying to get my PPL getting frustrated that I still haven't gone solo.
Seem to be progressing ok through the syllabus, but have had only an hour or so circuit time with an instructor (it seems that every time I turn up to fly there's a northerly gusting straight across the runway ay 15kts!).
Roughly how many hours has it taken people doing circuits to get sufficiently happy with your landings to go solo?? Mine, so far, are pretty ropey!
Any advice appreciated!
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ChiSau,
take a look down the topics on this forum. If you look at the "Flat Landings" thread you will have all the information you need to make those landings nice and gentle! I was in the same position as yourself until I got advice from the thread.
I have been in the circuit now for ages, but should go solo soon after about 26hrs, but it varies according to the frequency of your lessons and learning ability. I had long gaps between lessons initially and spend the first part of the next lesson catching up to my previous standard.
Good luck, you will get there!
take a look down the topics on this forum. If you look at the "Flat Landings" thread you will have all the information you need to make those landings nice and gentle! I was in the same position as yourself until I got advice from the thread.
I have been in the circuit now for ages, but should go solo soon after about 26hrs, but it varies according to the frequency of your lessons and learning ability. I had long gaps between lessons initially and spend the first part of the next lesson catching up to my previous standard.
Good luck, you will get there!
Last edited by Thumpango; 5th Sep 2002 at 12:45.
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...and the answer is........
"It's as long as a piece of string" !!!!
Varies tremendously upon age, skill, co-ordination level of student as well as factors such as weather, instructor compatibility, length of time between lessons, etc etc.
But a few basic questions to you.....
1. Is the "crosswind" situation being brought up as an excuse by the instructor, or is the instructor still working on your general flying handling abilities?
If answer is "crosswind" then could there be other fields you could use for practice?
2. Where are you up to in terms of handling? What exercises have you done, and are you repeating certain exercises (and why?)
3. Have you mentioned your concerns to the instructor? What did he/she say?
4. How much ground briefing have you had from instructor on circuits and landings?
Forming a picture of where you are and why on your course is important before anyone responds (and possibly jumps to conclusions).
"It's as long as a piece of string" !!!!
Varies tremendously upon age, skill, co-ordination level of student as well as factors such as weather, instructor compatibility, length of time between lessons, etc etc.
But a few basic questions to you.....
1. Is the "crosswind" situation being brought up as an excuse by the instructor, or is the instructor still working on your general flying handling abilities?
If answer is "crosswind" then could there be other fields you could use for practice?
2. Where are you up to in terms of handling? What exercises have you done, and are you repeating certain exercises (and why?)
3. Have you mentioned your concerns to the instructor? What did he/she say?
4. How much ground briefing have you had from instructor on circuits and landings?
Forming a picture of where you are and why on your course is important before anyone responds (and possibly jumps to conclusions).
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I think you'll find a lot of people went through the same 'pain' you are encountering, me included.
I was fortunate to learn on a runway which was 6000ft of tarmac with (generally) lights winds, and still couldn't get the landings right for quite some time. I just kept flaring too high, and although I know that there's been a 70's revival recently, flares that big are just not the order of the day...
I solo-d at 12 hrs but was not happy with my landings until I'd done about 10 hours solo, and at least six hours of pure circuits.
It all comes together eventually, I guess the simple answer is plently of practice. I now land on 350m of bumpy grass without much difficulty in a C150, so I'm sure you'll get the hang of it, weather permitting....
Good luck, and enjoy it.
I was fortunate to learn on a runway which was 6000ft of tarmac with (generally) lights winds, and still couldn't get the landings right for quite some time. I just kept flaring too high, and although I know that there's been a 70's revival recently, flares that big are just not the order of the day...
I solo-d at 12 hrs but was not happy with my landings until I'd done about 10 hours solo, and at least six hours of pure circuits.
It all comes together eventually, I guess the simple answer is plently of practice. I now land on 350m of bumpy grass without much difficulty in a C150, so I'm sure you'll get the hang of it, weather permitting....
Good luck, and enjoy it.
Why do it if it's not fun?
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ChiSau,
You say you've only spent 1 hour in the circuit. It is certainly not normal to feel confident after just 1 hour in the circuit - most people I've spoken to seem take a very minimum of about 5, and that really is a minimum! (Of course, there'll always be one or two who do it faster than everyone else...)
Am I right in thinking that your instructor thinks the cross-wind is too much for you to handle, although he's happy to fly in it himself? And therefore you're still getting lessons in, but he's introducing other parts of the syllabus while the wind is not suitable for working on circuits? That sounds perfectly accepable to me. Of course, you'll want to get some serious cross-wind practice in once you've mastered landing without too much cross-wind. But you certainly don't want to start out like that - it's hard enough without having other obstacles thrown in your path! (But once you want a cross-wind to practice in, you won't get a windy day for months!)
As poetpilot says, you should mention concerns to your instructor (or to the school's chief instructor if you don't like your instructor's answer). But it sounds to me like you're progressing pretty well, but being unlucky with the weather. If that's the case, you'd better get used to it - it's a regular part of PPL flying in the UK!
FFF
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You say you've only spent 1 hour in the circuit. It is certainly not normal to feel confident after just 1 hour in the circuit - most people I've spoken to seem take a very minimum of about 5, and that really is a minimum! (Of course, there'll always be one or two who do it faster than everyone else...)
Am I right in thinking that your instructor thinks the cross-wind is too much for you to handle, although he's happy to fly in it himself? And therefore you're still getting lessons in, but he's introducing other parts of the syllabus while the wind is not suitable for working on circuits? That sounds perfectly accepable to me. Of course, you'll want to get some serious cross-wind practice in once you've mastered landing without too much cross-wind. But you certainly don't want to start out like that - it's hard enough without having other obstacles thrown in your path! (But once you want a cross-wind to practice in, you won't get a windy day for months!)
As poetpilot says, you should mention concerns to your instructor (or to the school's chief instructor if you don't like your instructor's answer). But it sounds to me like you're progressing pretty well, but being unlucky with the weather. If that's the case, you'd better get used to it - it's a regular part of PPL flying in the UK!
FFF
---------------
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You say you've only spent 1 hour in the circuit. It is certainly not normal to feel confident after just 1 hour in the circuit - most people I've spoken to seem take a very minimum of about 5, and that really is a minimum! (Of course, there'll always be one or two who do it faster than everyone else...)
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If I understood your post correctly, you've been going through the syllabus, but not flying circuits because of the crosswind. That sounds absolutely fine to me. Try not to get obsessed with going solo. It's normal; we all do it! But as everyone has pointed out, it's dependent on so many things, and in the long run it doesn't matter. If you can, just enjoy your flying and learn, and eventually you'll get the weather and as many hours as YOU need to go solo. Oh, and after that, you may forget how to land and have to learn all over again. 
That's normal too.
I realise this advice is almost impossible to take - been there, I couldn't do it either - but it still seemed worth saying.
That's normal too.I realise this advice is almost impossible to take - been there, I couldn't do it either - but it still seemed worth saying.
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Re: Hopeless at landings
Hey guys - thanks very much for the speedy feedback and encouragement. Now I don't feel quite as slow!
For those that asked, I've gone on to do PFLs, slow flight, stalling etc and am currently on navigation and diversion, so I think the instructors are doing their best to push me on despite the lack of opportunity to do circuits.
As a new boy to the site, this seems like a great way to get advice, compare notes etc. My non-flying friends are already starting to glaze over if I mention flying and by definition aren't much help!
Am taking next week off work and have lessons booked every day to try and get some more hours in - so am praying for good weather!
For those that asked, I've gone on to do PFLs, slow flight, stalling etc and am currently on navigation and diversion, so I think the instructors are doing their best to push me on despite the lack of opportunity to do circuits.
As a new boy to the site, this seems like a great way to get advice, compare notes etc. My non-flying friends are already starting to glaze over if I mention flying and by definition aren't much help!
Am taking next week off work and have lessons booked every day to try and get some more hours in - so am praying for good weather!
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Dont worry about it, everyone has their sticking point (mine was PFLs!). I got cut lose with my landings after 18 hours but there were students on the same course as me who were hitting 25-30 hours and still mucking up their landings .... until as if by magic .....POOOWWW! It just clicks!
You will get it eventually just dont get yourself worked up and have a read of the flat landings thread - its got some very goodpointers in it.
Julian.
You will get it eventually just dont get yourself worked up and have a read of the flat landings thread - its got some very goodpointers in it.
Julian.
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At the risk of labouring the point, 1 hour of circuits is absolutely nothing, so don’t worry if you’re feeling a little bit wobbly. (Does everyone else remember the joys of turning downwind and trying desperately to remember all that BUMFFISCH stuff, getting the downwind call in, and trying to keep the thing somewhere between 1,000’ & 1,500’?) It’s all a bit overwhelming at first, but as the hours build it will come together.
I found FS2000 extremely useful for practicing circuits (don’t laugh) - you’ll get used to rolling out on the correct headings & can practice pre-landing checks in real-time, as well as getting the correct runway picture on approach – and it’s an awful lot cheaper than the real thing.
Difficult to give you much advice on landings, apart from the usual stuff about looking towards the far end of the runway as you start the flare, and getting your approach speed right. It’s all down to practice (and currency – 3 weeks without flying, and my first couple of landings are real bone-crunchers). The best moral support I ever had was from a BA146 FO, who started out on the F27. He reckoned that, in a year’s worth of landings, he had 2 or possibly 3 that he was really happy with. I stopped worrying about it after that.
I found FS2000 extremely useful for practicing circuits (don’t laugh) - you’ll get used to rolling out on the correct headings & can practice pre-landing checks in real-time, as well as getting the correct runway picture on approach – and it’s an awful lot cheaper than the real thing.
Difficult to give you much advice on landings, apart from the usual stuff about looking towards the far end of the runway as you start the flare, and getting your approach speed right. It’s all down to practice (and currency – 3 weeks without flying, and my first couple of landings are real bone-crunchers). The best moral support I ever had was from a BA146 FO, who started out on the F27. He reckoned that, in a year’s worth of landings, he had 2 or possibly 3 that he was really happy with. I stopped worrying about it after that.
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Solo Time
You might find this link to a Time To Solo calculator useful
http://www.omen.com/f/timetosolo.htm
Rather tongue in cheek, but in my case it was only one hour out.
http://www.omen.com/f/timetosolo.htm
Rather tongue in cheek, but in my case it was only one hour out.
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Stick with it and don't worry. I went through a phase of thinking I would never be able to land an aeroplane. I nearly gave up. I couldn't cope with crosswinds, that is I couldn't cope with controlling the flare and adjusting the yaw and controlling the drift all at once. If I concentrated on one aspect the other two would suffer. My instructor took me away from the circuit and we did other stuff like navigation, slow flight etc. Then I had 5 hours of either calm winds or wind straight down the runway and I soloed.
During the last few hours of circuits it kind of clicked into place. I began to see the "whole picture" crosswind landings rather than each induividual component in turn. It was a weird experience.
Keep going, if I can do it, anyone can
During the last few hours of circuits it kind of clicked into place. I began to see the "whole picture" crosswind landings rather than each induividual component in turn. It was a weird experience.
Keep going, if I can do it, anyone can
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Hey! I got my license last year, and I'm still not happy with all of my landings But I find thats half the fun, i.e. trying to continuously improve - like, say, golf etc... the learning curve never ends!
But I find thats half the fun, i.e. trying to continuously improve - like, say, golf etc... the learning curve never ends!
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ChiSau don't get too hung up on landings or the solo thing as others have said enjoy your flying. Eventually the weather ewill co-operate and because of the experience yuogained doing PFLs and so on will stand you in good stead especially when it comes to glide approaches.
The best piece of adivce I was ever even about landings is "fly along the runway at about 2ft make sure power is at idle and "then try not to land" works every time (well almost every time)
The other great truism is "a good landing is the product of a good approach get the speed right on final and pulling off a good one is a lot easier. It just clicks one day and pretty soon after your instructor will say "right once round...don't forget if you are not happy go around...have fun"
The best piece of adivce I was ever even about landings is "fly along the runway at about 2ft make sure power is at idle and "then try not to land" works every time (well almost every time)
The other great truism is "a good landing is the product of a good approach get the speed right on final and pulling off a good one is a lot easier. It just clicks one day and pretty soon after your instructor will say "right once round...don't forget if you are not happy go around...have fun"
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I went solo after 4 hrs but I had near perfect weather every day and an amazing instructor.
It seems strange that you have only done 1 hour in the circuit but had nearlt 18 hrs of lessons
It seems strange that you have only done 1 hour in the circuit but had nearlt 18 hrs of lessons
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Dont get frustrated just yet. I had done 65 hours before I got solo and I still have yet to get solo at my true home airfield or on the type that I have most of my hours on. So I know what frustration is. I have however completed the rest of the course now bar Ex 17. Good luck
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Elvis have you actually read through the thread, because he explained it perfectly well why he only has 1 hour in the circuit.
As for me , I soloed after (checks log book) eeeeekkkkkk 9 hours of circuits and 21 hours total.
I still enjoyed the QXC much more than my first solo. As for messing up the landings, I now have almost 100 hours and my last landing was worse than my first solo.
Walt,,
As for me , I soloed after (checks log book) eeeeekkkkkk 9 hours of circuits and 21 hours total.
I still enjoyed the QXC much more than my first solo. As for messing up the landings, I now have almost 100 hours and my last landing was worse than my first solo.
Walt,,
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ChiSau,
I'd say you're putting too much pressure on yourself to go solo. take you time. one best advice I was given was while doing my pre-landing checks was to extend it with telling myself to relax at the end. And believe it or not, it worked.
Just concentrate on each individual landing, and don't beat yourself up too badly if you fluff it up.
I'd say you're putting too much pressure on yourself to go solo. take you time. one best advice I was given was while doing my pre-landing checks was to extend it with telling myself to relax at the end. And believe it or not, it worked.
Just concentrate on each individual landing, and don't beat yourself up too badly if you fluff it up.