Next steps...IR or IMC?
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Next steps...IR or IMC?
I'm a fairly new PPL holder but have managed to log quite a few hours over the course of the summer. I'm really keen to progress to more ratings - not because I want to go commercial (too old, folks!) but because I simply want to be a really good pilot.
So, the big question to all you experienced folk out there - should I go on to IMC training or should I skip IMC and consider going straight to IR?
Thoughts? Views?
So, the big question to all you experienced folk out there - should I go on to IMC training or should I skip IMC and consider going straight to IR?
Thoughts? Views?
Join Date: May 2001
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Interesting choice you have, but a couple of ideas for starters:
What do you want to do with the rating? If all your flying is in the UK, then justifying an IR for the sake of being able to use Class A airspace might be difficult
Are you prepared for the ground exams? The 'Approved' IR requires you complete a (lengthy) ground school course, and for a period these were (and maybe still are) unavilable. The exams are a day and a half a Gatwick, something like four times a year, and are not trivial - you will need to do the course, or be very well read.
Can the IMC time be used against your IR? When I went trhough this, it was possible (there was an AIC that has now expired, but with all the transitional arrangements, there may be something in its place by now)
You will probably need an additional medical examination (aural) for an IR - if you elect to go for this rating, this is the cheapest hurdle to jump (and thus I suggest you do it first!)
Have you looked at joining www.pplir.org ? There is a wealth of information there, and you maight want to consider advice from there.
BUt either way, (I did an IMC, used it possibly too much, and then did and IR two years ago), the skills you will get taught will sharpen up a number of aspects of your flying, notably accuracy of headings & heights, 'keeping ahead' of the a/c, working with ATC for mutual benefit, and so on....
Good luck either way, but the commitment to a UK CAA/JAR IR is significant in terms of both ca$h and your time.
What do you want to do with the rating? If all your flying is in the UK, then justifying an IR for the sake of being able to use Class A airspace might be difficult
Are you prepared for the ground exams? The 'Approved' IR requires you complete a (lengthy) ground school course, and for a period these were (and maybe still are) unavilable. The exams are a day and a half a Gatwick, something like four times a year, and are not trivial - you will need to do the course, or be very well read.
Can the IMC time be used against your IR? When I went trhough this, it was possible (there was an AIC that has now expired, but with all the transitional arrangements, there may be something in its place by now)
You will probably need an additional medical examination (aural) for an IR - if you elect to go for this rating, this is the cheapest hurdle to jump (and thus I suggest you do it first!)
Have you looked at joining www.pplir.org ? There is a wealth of information there, and you maight want to consider advice from there.
BUt either way, (I did an IMC, used it possibly too much, and then did and IR two years ago), the skills you will get taught will sharpen up a number of aspects of your flying, notably accuracy of headings & heights, 'keeping ahead' of the a/c, working with ATC for mutual benefit, and so on....
Good luck either way, but the commitment to a UK CAA/JAR IR is significant in terms of both ca$h and your time.
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IFR - thanks very much for the tips. You raised a really good point lurking in my mind about IMC time going towards IR, so I guess I need to start the research.
I don't mind about the exams, and I mind a heck of a lot about the cost, but you're quite right about the medical (which I had conveniently forgotten) and that should be my next step.
Really appreciate the pointers, particularly the pplir.org website which is fantastically useful.
Cheers!
SkyW
I don't mind about the exams, and I mind a heck of a lot about the cost, but you're quite right about the medical (which I had conveniently forgotten) and that should be my next step.
Really appreciate the pointers, particularly the pplir.org website which is fantastically useful.
Cheers!
SkyW
Join Date: May 2002
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I have recently made the choice for IMC rather than IR for the time being. My PPL examiner estimated the cost of just getting the CAA IR at 12 grand. Similar to Sky Warrion I don't mind the exams, I actually quite enjoy them but maintaining the IR under CAA sounds though.
Although I do a fair bit of my flying on the continent, I decided to do the IMC first and then after having sharpened the skills considerably, possibly move on to an FAA IR within the next few years.
Although I do a fair bit of my flying on the continent, I decided to do the IMC first and then after having sharpened the skills considerably, possibly move on to an FAA IR within the next few years.
Join Date: Apr 2001
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If you dont mind a couple of weeks outside the UK then you can always do the FAA IR. The bonus being that on return to the UK you will get the IMC added to your UK licence for free (apart from the £64 fee that is!).
The course will set you back about £3000 which is much cheaper than the JAA IR, but be warned...its not an easy course to pass! Once you do have the ticket in your hand though its excellent, I always file IFR now when in the US, beats VFR any day
Julian.
The course will set you back about £3000 which is much cheaper than the JAA IR, but be warned...its not an easy course to pass! Once you do have the ticket in your hand though its excellent, I always file IFR now when in the US, beats VFR any day
Julian.
Join Date: Jul 2002
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IMC doesn't count towards a JAA IR - it used to count towards a CAA IR, but these, of course, can't be done anymore.
I'm doing an IMC at the moment and it's the hardest bit of flying I've done - normal flying is like trying to juggle with three balls, adding IFR throws another three in on top! Great fun and very satisfying when the foggles come off (or, even better, break cloud) and the runway is bang in front of you.
I would have done an FAA IR if I could have taken a month off but unfortunately no chance. Also if you do any ICAO IR (South Africa, US, Oz, etc) then you can now do only a 15 hour conversion to get a JAA one (plus exams plus flight tests plus.... etc).
BTW, I'm fairly sure you need a class 1 medical for a JAA IR.
I'm doing an IMC at the moment and it's the hardest bit of flying I've done - normal flying is like trying to juggle with three balls, adding IFR throws another three in on top! Great fun and very satisfying when the foggles come off (or, even better, break cloud) and the runway is bang in front of you.
I would have done an FAA IR if I could have taken a month off but unfortunately no chance. Also if you do any ICAO IR (South Africa, US, Oz, etc) then you can now do only a 15 hour conversion to get a JAA one (plus exams plus flight tests plus.... etc).
BTW, I'm fairly sure you need a class 1 medical for a JAA IR.
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Can I just clarify something about obtaining my IR overseas. Do I need to do all the written exams in the US to get my FAA IR and then do them all over again in the UK to get my JAR IR? Or do I get a 'bye' into the JAR one and just have to do the 15 hour conversion?
I can't believe how bizarre and hard-to-figure-out some of these ratings/conversions/licences are. What kind of industry runs itself like this? How the commercial guys put up with all this nonsense is beyond me...
SkyW
I can't believe how bizarre and hard-to-figure-out some of these ratings/conversions/licences are. What kind of industry runs itself like this? How the commercial guys put up with all this nonsense is beyond me...
SkyW
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Well I would say that an IR probably isnt worth the cost to you at the moment.
If you are a new PPL holder and low hours (you need 200 for an IR issue...) then it is likely you will struggle. I personally would suggest night & IMC ratings first - then if you still feel you want to do an IR then go for it. The only real privileges the IR brings in the UK is flying in class A (however the a/c needs to be equipped to do this), and flying overseas in IMC conditions.
Hope this helps.
If you are a new PPL holder and low hours (you need 200 for an IR issue...) then it is likely you will struggle. I personally would suggest night & IMC ratings first - then if you still feel you want to do an IR then go for it. The only real privileges the IR brings in the UK is flying in class A (however the a/c needs to be equipped to do this), and flying overseas in IMC conditions.
Hope this helps.
