Returning pilot - Air Law, RT, licensing...what else has changed?
Thread Starter
Returning pilot - Air Law, RT, licensing...what else has changed?
Hi folks,
Apologies in advance...it's another post about returning after a long time away.
I have an old JAR-PPL (one of the brown ones) and am expecting the instructor to take me through revalidation for an EASA FCL equivalent, incl a skills test of some description. As I'll want to fly in Europe, get various additional ratings, EASA makes sense I think.
While the PA28 looks pretty familiar (well, it is the exactly same aircraft I learned in!) other things have changed - particularly it seems around ATC, RT, VFR.
If I get the new RT and Air Law books, am I covered? Is there anything else you'd look out for?
Thanks all, great to be (on my way) back,
T
Apologies in advance...it's another post about returning after a long time away.
I have an old JAR-PPL (one of the brown ones) and am expecting the instructor to take me through revalidation for an EASA FCL equivalent, incl a skills test of some description. As I'll want to fly in Europe, get various additional ratings, EASA makes sense I think.
While the PA28 looks pretty familiar (well, it is the exactly same aircraft I learned in!) other things have changed - particularly it seems around ATC, RT, VFR.
If I get the new RT and Air Law books, am I covered? Is there anything else you'd look out for?
Thanks all, great to be (on my way) back,
T
Moderator
Welcome back Mr. Bimble,
I'll leave it to the formal educators here to comment on the rules. That said, after a forced break from flying for seven months, I was pleased to find during a checkout in a 172 that it fit like a glove, I flew like I'd never been away from flying at all. So know the rules, and expect to enjoy yourself! (And do practice emergencies!)
I'll leave it to the formal educators here to comment on the rules. That said, after a forced break from flying for seven months, I was pleased to find during a checkout in a 172 that it fit like a glove, I flew like I'd never been away from flying at all. So know the rules, and expect to enjoy yourself! (And do practice emergencies!)
Thread Starter
Awesome. I was down at the airfield the other day just to sit in a PA28 and it was so good to be back around aircraft and aircraft people. Can't wait.
The PA28 handles now the same as it did half a century ago! Although it's less likely to feature the EFIS displays found on newer types. In the UK the most significant change has been the proliferation of airspace restrictions of one sort or another. Many pilots now use tablets or smart phones for nav purposes, although many still print out a copy of the planned route as a back-up. SkyDemon is a popular tool for both planning and operating flights.
Electronic conspicuity (EC) is a recent development, but might be a mixed blessing for VFR pilots. Checking a cockpit traffic display should not be allowed to detract from the primary task of looking out of the window for see-and-avoid. Currently there is plenty of VFR traffic that will not show on EC displays.
Electronic conspicuity (EC) is a recent development, but might be a mixed blessing for VFR pilots. Checking a cockpit traffic display should not be allowed to detract from the primary task of looking out of the window for see-and-avoid. Currently there is plenty of VFR traffic that will not show on EC displays.
Welcome back to the nuthouse! As you have a JAR-PPL, I would start by checking whether you can still use this as the basis for a renewal. I think that it should have been converted a while ago, and you now have the challenge of choosing whether to go down the EASA route so that you can fly around Europe, or whether to go down the UK PPL route. If you're based in the UK, it would make sense to start there, figure out how to get hold of a piece of paper that will allow you to fly G-reg bits of metal, and figure out the Europe side of things once that's done.
Once you have a valid UK PPL, you can use this as the basis for a third country ICAO compliant licence conversion to EASA. Two exams, RT and a PPL exam if I'm not mistaken. But I would consider that as a future step for now.
Once you have a valid UK PPL, you can use this as the basis for a third country ICAO compliant licence conversion to EASA. Two exams, RT and a PPL exam if I'm not mistaken. But I would consider that as a future step for now.
Thread Starter
It's all fearsomely complicated...by not converting it already I've made my life harder I think. I'm sat here wondering whether I should just go to France for a week, eat cheese, fly aeroplanes, get the EASA.
(If someone could speak to my wife about this idea, it would be much appreciated).
After a lot of probably unnecessary searching I found "third-country-licence-conversion-requirements-from-1-january-2023" on the CAA site. (Sorry, URLs not allowed yet for me.)
It seems to me that I fall under Route 3 there as an “EASA PPL(A) that previously held a PPL license with the UK CAA”.
This means I would need a proficiency check (which I expected) but that's kind of it.
(If someone could speak to my wife about this idea, it would be much appreciated).
After a lot of probably unnecessary searching I found "third-country-licence-conversion-requirements-from-1-january-2023" on the CAA site. (Sorry, URLs not allowed yet for me.)
It seems to me that I fall under Route 3 there as an “EASA PPL(A) that previously held a PPL license with the UK CAA”.
This means I would need a proficiency check (which I expected) but that's kind of it.
No. That's for people that used to have a UK issued EASA PPL but then changed state before we left EASA, eg to an Irish EASA PPL, & now wish to get a UK PPL on the basis of their EASA PPL.
Your old brown UK PPL is still valid, you just need to renew the SEP rating on it. It always was valid for non-EASA aircraft (eg homebuilts) & now we've left EASA the CAA will allow you to fly what we used to call EASA aircraft but now call Part 21 aircraft on your old UK JAR compliant licence. If you're flying a G-reg SEP around Europe that will be all you need.
If you want to get an EASA licence you can do it at some UK schools:
EASA approved training outside EASA
You will have to get your SEP rating renewed on your old licence first. That will involve some re-training followed by a proficiency check. One new option is the pilot medical declaration means that you don't need to have a medical to fly G-reg in the UK. If you then want to get an EASA licence you will need an EASA medical as well as the two exams (air law & human performance) & skill test as stated above. It may just be possible to combine the renewal proficiency check & conversion skill test into one test if the examiner holds CAA & EASA ratings.
Your old brown UK PPL is still valid, you just need to renew the SEP rating on it. It always was valid for non-EASA aircraft (eg homebuilts) & now we've left EASA the CAA will allow you to fly what we used to call EASA aircraft but now call Part 21 aircraft on your old UK JAR compliant licence. If you're flying a G-reg SEP around Europe that will be all you need.
If you want to get an EASA licence you can do it at some UK schools:
EASA approved training outside EASA
You will have to get your SEP rating renewed on your old licence first. That will involve some re-training followed by a proficiency check. One new option is the pilot medical declaration means that you don't need to have a medical to fly G-reg in the UK. If you then want to get an EASA licence you will need an EASA medical as well as the two exams (air law & human performance) & skill test as stated above. It may just be possible to combine the renewal proficiency check & conversion skill test into one test if the examiner holds CAA & EASA ratings.
Mr Bimble, because licensing covers a wide range of old and new licences, you may well get well-meaning but incorrect information from Internet sites.
You may wish to join AOPA and use the 'Ask AOPA' service, which will give you up-to-date information.
You may wish to join AOPA and use the 'Ask AOPA' service, which will give you up-to-date information.
Thread Starter
Thanks everyone, I'm going to talk to the instructor today, but yes there's a lot of information which has been superseded as the regs change and the CAA try to deal with Brexit.
The Skyway Code doc is a good one, lots of stuff in there which tbh is a good refresher & summary of many changes (albeit the pun-tastic name makes me cringe).
I'll take a look at the AOPA - was regularly getting mails form them but don't think I was a member.
The Skyway Code doc is a good one, lots of stuff in there which tbh is a good refresher & summary of many changes (albeit the pun-tastic name makes me cringe).
I'll take a look at the AOPA - was regularly getting mails form them but don't think I was a member.
Your old brown UK PPL is still valid, you just need to renew the SEP rating on it.
There is no such thing as a EASA licence. Each member state issues its own licence but in accordance with EASA regulations. For English speakers Ireland is favourite to to obtain an EASA approved licence. It is not a conversion; you do not give up your UK licence to obtain another countries licence including those of the EU. You will be given credits based on your UK licence
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Thread Starter
Hey that's great, and pretty clear tbh.
I think myself (perhaps others) are using "EASA license" as shorthand for "issued by a state in accordance with EASA", hence I was considering some quality time a la Francais to square that off. But you know...Ireland...I could do some time there.
Was up in the back seat of a PA28 yesterday and it was super just being around it all again.
Booked back in to fly on 2nd.
I think myself (perhaps others) are using "EASA license" as shorthand for "issued by a state in accordance with EASA", hence I was considering some quality time a la Francais to square that off. But you know...Ireland...I could do some time there.
Was up in the back seat of a PA28 yesterday and it was super just being around it all again.
Booked back in to fly on 2nd.
Before JAA came along 'Brown' licences were for life.
Obtaining a French licence will be possible as long as you speak French which is why for most Ireland is particularly attractive. The French will also require that you undertake an expensive EASA English Language Assessment (normally in Paris) - although you are English you are not given credit.
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Hey thanks folks, really interesting stuff...bit slow in replying as I'm in France this week (again). I'm here a lot, so think in the long term I'll want to rent F- reg aircraft, hence the EASA idea.
But getting there via a UK PPL isn't a problem and probably is the next logical step.
CAA & FTO are looking at the right path - I'll post here once I have some details.
But getting there via a UK PPL isn't a problem and probably is the next logical step.
CAA & FTO are looking at the right path - I'll post here once I have some details.
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Mr Bimble. I've been in a similar position to yourself. See my thread UK licence for PH- aircraft?
For your EASA licence, obviously you need to do the theory in English language. The theory and practical can be different member states. Ireland or Austria's Austro is possible. I did all theory with Orbit ground school and the exams per Austro.
The tips I received on PPRuNE undoubtedly saved me cost and hassle.
flyme
For your EASA licence, obviously you need to do the theory in English language. The theory and practical can be different member states. Ireland or Austria's Austro is possible. I did all theory with Orbit ground school and the exams per Austro.
The tips I received on PPRuNE undoubtedly saved me cost and hassle.
flyme
Thread Starter
Ooh thanks, will check that out. I agree this forum is so useful...as you can see, first place I came to for advice, particularly given my old instructor has moved on.
Flew for the first time in a long time last week, booked in again this week. A couple of "doh" moments due to rushing the checklist (mixture to rich for engine start right?) but it could have been worse. Re-reading all the old books again helping to bring it all back.
Flew for the first time in a long time last week, booked in again this week. A couple of "doh" moments due to rushing the checklist (mixture to rich for engine start right?) but it could have been worse. Re-reading all the old books again helping to bring it all back.
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Thread Starter
Hey folks, just wanted to thank everyone for their thoughts - I revalidated today following a short course.
After years of flying being something "I used to do", it feels great to be back doing it. I've missed it more than I realised.
After years of flying being something "I used to do", it feels great to be back doing it. I've missed it more than I realised.
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