Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Non-Airline Forums > Private Flying
Reload this Page >

When are the 600 kg microlights coming?

Private Flying LAA/BMAA/BGA/BPA The sheer pleasure of flight.

When are the 600 kg microlights coming?

Old 29th Dec 2020, 21:28
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 5
When are the 600 kg microlights coming?

After the CAA June announcement that sub 600kg microlights would be nationally regulated, I was wondering how close we are to a flood of them coming on to the UK market. I notice for example that the Ikarus C42C, which was approved on Dec 19th, is 560 kg-ready (a bit like HD TV-ready), but not yet approved for that weight. Just wondering, in case I need to keep dieting to make the 450kg MTOW...
Big J is offline  
Old 30th Dec 2020, 14:09
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: EBZH
Posts: 2,622
It is a pity there seem to be no potential suppliers in the UK. There are some on the continent, but, err, perhaps they are holding their breath until it becomes clear what exactly will be the procedure of approval, and the cost thereof? The market will not be for hundreds of planes, meseemeth. Would it be worth the wager?

On a side-note, if I were a potential supplier from the continent, I would also hold my breath until it becomes clear the Brits have any money left to buy luxury goods such as recreational aeroplanes - as far as I understand, their economy is in for a serious decline due to Brexit, on top of the Corona misery. Also, I would wait a bit until it is clear what level of import duty will be levied; though I seem to understand the recent agreement steers clear of that horror, at least.

And by the way, all those 80-HP Rotax-powered two-seaters can easily operate with 500-600 kg take-off weight, they were only certified for 450 kg because that was the magical rule in those days. It is not a technical limit.
Jan Olieslagers is offline  
Old 30th Dec 2020, 15:18
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Germany
Posts: 854
I am not sure that is correct. We have a C42 in our Aeroclub and have looked into this carefully. Our understanding is that there is a substantial cost to upgrade involving for example a stronger undercarriage. I know this was also the case with autogyros which were an earlier case. It was definitely more than just a paperwork exercise.
lederhosen is offline  
Old 30th Dec 2020, 15:59
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Bressuire
Posts: 349
Lederhosen is correct. It will be important that the original manufacturer provides the upgrade modification scheme if any. Modifications and/or paperwork, if required, is best done by a manufacturer. Then use an approved organization in order to forestall any future difficulties across national borders. It is not easy to re-register Ultralite aircraft across national borders. There are currently no standards agreed by the EU nor between other states for microlite/ ultralite call them what you will. Each country approves these aircraft types wholly on its own terms. Usually the original manufacturer design standards are acceptable but this cannot be assured.
Fl1ingfrog is online now  
Old 30th Dec 2020, 16:56
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: EBZH
Posts: 2,622
And where is that aeroclub, and that C42? If in Germany, yes of course, rules must be adhered to, and they are forbidden to be simple and straightforward. Otherwise, the mileage may vary, and there are lots of unknowns in today's Britain - as in tomorrow's, like as not.

@Fl1ingfrog above: I particularly like the "if any" bit - most appropriate !
"Ultralight aircraft" is even a contradictio in terminis, strictly speaking: no aircraft can be an ultralight and no ultralight can be an aircraft. But I fully agree that switching sub-EASA craft between national registers can be difficult: my own pride and beauty took a full 3 months to pass from HU to BE. The key to success was that the type had been approved "as a type" by the BE CAA, but it took its time to convince the civil servants.

Also, may I be forgiven for suspecting certain manufacturers of earning money as they see opportunity, for example by requiring strengthened landing gear. For one example, I see the Eurofox https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aeropro_Eurofox being marketed as a 1200 lbs LSA in the USA, with no mention of technical differences with the European ultralight version of 450/472,5 kg MTOW.

Meaning that this Eurofox can obviously be operated at 600 kg with no modifications. There can of course be other manufacturers who started out with a less sturdy construction.

Last edited by Jan Olieslagers; 31st Dec 2020 at 06:22.
Jan Olieslagers is offline  
Old 31st Dec 2020, 10:35
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 5
Originally Posted by PR0PWASH View Post
Its a daft developement pushed largely by the influence of a single UK Business on the BMAA who then put pressure on the CAA.
Thatís pure internet forum nonsense based, I assume, on an opinion - which is wrong.

a 600kg aeroplane that can top 120 knots but be flown on an NPPL with a microlight rating is a bliddy joke, if you want or need a larger MAUW, the appropriate Licence an permit aircraft where already available
450kg aeroplanes that top 120kt have been flown very successfully on an NPPL(m) for over 15 years.
sportflying is offline  
Old 31st Dec 2020, 10:45
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 5
Originally Posted by Jan Olieslagers View Post
It is a pity there seem to be no potential suppliers in the UK. There are some on the continent, but, err, perhaps they are holding their breath until it becomes clear what exactly will be the procedure of approval, and the cost thereof? The market will not be for hundreds of planes, meseemeth.
Jan, you will be pleased to hear that there are quite a few UK suppliers, some of whom are just waiting for the final CAA sign-off before submitting (re-)designs. This will hopefully be in February if CAA stick to their original time estimate.

Some have produced 600kg versions in anticipation or are preparing their current super-472kg variants for this market. One example is Flylight who manufacture the Skyranger and heavier than 472kg variants of that aeroplane exist today. There are many other UK suppliers and even some manufacturers taking active steps.

sportflying is offline  
Old 31st Dec 2020, 11:13
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: EBZH
Posts: 2,622
That sounds like good news indeed, for the UK flying community at least. Still, excuse me for having some reserve: the Skyranger is not manufactured by Flylight, they are merely the importers. So says en.wikipedia.org, at least:
Originally Posted by wikipedia
The company also acts as importer for several lines of aircraft including the Best Off Skyranger
Still, if Messrs. Flylight will go to the cost and trouble of re-certifying the craft for 600 kg (or a bit less, perhaps) it will make an excellent offer. I have one of these for a hangar neighbour, and see it as generally solid and reliable; the pilot-owner has only good things to report about it.
Jan Olieslagers is offline  
Old 31st Dec 2020, 17:44
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 13,861
Flylight have been the design owner and manufacturer of the Skyranger family for about three years now.

G
Genghis the Engineer is offline  
Old 31st Dec 2020, 19:46
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: EBZH
Posts: 2,622
Ah, that is new to me, and apparently wikipedia are lagging behind, too, then. Thanks for the update!
And kudos and best wishes for success to Flylight.
Jan Olieslagers is offline  
Old 31st Dec 2020, 19:53
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 13,861
Having dealt with them over some 20 years now (and still working with them on a project at the moment) - they earned it. Flylight are a very robust, honest, hardworking, and competent company. We can all learn from their ways of doing business.

I also know that they are well on the way to a 600kg Skyranger being ready pretty much as soon as the 600kg version of BCAR Section S is.

G

Last edited by Genghis the Engineer; 31st Dec 2020 at 20:13.
Genghis the Engineer is offline  
Old 3rd Jan 2021, 16:12
  #12 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 5
Thanks all - that was a useful thread! I might hold on a couple of months for a new 600 kg Skyranger Nynja ; or if it doesn't appear, then just go for first C42, Eurostar or Eurofox that I can afford on AFORS...
Big J is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.