North Atlantic
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North Atlantic
Hello
I 'd like to learn more about North Atlantic crossing with a single engine piston.
What equipment needed?dinghy,radio,survival suit?
Who are the experienced pilots ? Which fields are used in canada (goose) groenland(narsasuak) reyjavik stornoway?
Can i rent and where can I rent the equipment?
Thanks for cops,
FB
I 'd like to learn more about North Atlantic crossing with a single engine piston.
What equipment needed?dinghy,radio,survival suit?
Who are the experienced pilots ? Which fields are used in canada (goose) groenland(narsasuak) reyjavik stornoway?
Can i rent and where can I rent the equipment?
Thanks for cops,
FB
Just to begin with:
https://www.worldairops.com/NAT/docs...orldAirOps.pdf
https://www.worldairops.com/NAT/docs...orldAirOps.pdf
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So much depends on your attitude to risk - as has been said the safest way is to container the thing across...
It was a while ago now when I did it so the rules and regs/ airspace requirements may have changed a little since.
1. Equipment - can be hired from Far North at Wick. It can be a one way run dropped at Goose or held back for the return trip. Dingy and survival suits at the very least, “wet bag” and rations at your discretion. You may want to do a sea survival course which may help some.
2. Routing - depending upon the time of year (Winter is not the time to do it!) you can do the traditional Scotland - Reykjavik- Narsarsuaq - Goose and on or the slight more northerly “Blue Spruce” route where the legs are slights shorter but the overall distance much longer. The MSA in southern Greenland is 13000’ so you might want to factor that in..,
3. Tanking - the only time you can have too much fuel is when you’re on fire. The actual need to tank can be done away with by flying the blue spruce but you’d need to make sure all your planned stops have fuel available for you. If you tank- get the proper paperwork. CBP at Bangor we’re all over us for our 337.
4. Chstoms / Immigration / Visas. If you’re heading into the US you will need a visa as the visa waiver programme is not applicable. Greenland weren’t interested - “this is Greenland, you can stay if you want!” Was the response when asked if they wanted to see passports etc.
5. Radio - no real need for HF as you can stay below class A but bear in mind comms range with the terrain is very limited. Satphone could come in handy but is not a legal method of comms.
6. Diversion options are very limited so plan carefully and always give yourself an escape route... even if that is a 180.
That’s about all I can think of for a quick response....
It was a while ago now when I did it so the rules and regs/ airspace requirements may have changed a little since.
1. Equipment - can be hired from Far North at Wick. It can be a one way run dropped at Goose or held back for the return trip. Dingy and survival suits at the very least, “wet bag” and rations at your discretion. You may want to do a sea survival course which may help some.
2. Routing - depending upon the time of year (Winter is not the time to do it!) you can do the traditional Scotland - Reykjavik- Narsarsuaq - Goose and on or the slight more northerly “Blue Spruce” route where the legs are slights shorter but the overall distance much longer. The MSA in southern Greenland is 13000’ so you might want to factor that in..,
3. Tanking - the only time you can have too much fuel is when you’re on fire. The actual need to tank can be done away with by flying the blue spruce but you’d need to make sure all your planned stops have fuel available for you. If you tank- get the proper paperwork. CBP at Bangor we’re all over us for our 337.
4. Chstoms / Immigration / Visas. If you’re heading into the US you will need a visa as the visa waiver programme is not applicable. Greenland weren’t interested - “this is Greenland, you can stay if you want!” Was the response when asked if they wanted to see passports etc.
5. Radio - no real need for HF as you can stay below class A but bear in mind comms range with the terrain is very limited. Satphone could come in handy but is not a legal method of comms.
6. Diversion options are very limited so plan carefully and always give yourself an escape route... even if that is a 180.
That’s about all I can think of for a quick response....
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Singles are flown across by pilots experienced in the crossing. Their success should not be taken as an indication that it's easily done. I've done the crossing a few times in twins, and having done it, would not consider it in a piston powered single, unless you had unlimited time to wait at each stop for the perfect conditions. Certainly, when it works, it's a great trip, but there are so many opportunities for it to go wrong. When it does, mostly the weather, there are few alternates within range. Narsarsuaq is a shorter route stop, but not much for alternates.
Most GA singles do not have the payload to carry ferry fuel in tanks, and the required emergency gear. Some can be flown overgross for ferry, so you have to research.
The emergency equipment is obtainable, but returning it following the trip can be surprisingly difficult. Shipping rafts and vests with gas cylinders is silly expensive. The last time I was involved, it was less costly to just buy the raft than ship it back to the renter, which is what was done. Depending upon the route through north east Canada, you may have to prearrange fuel, and be prepared to pump it from drums with a pump you take along - I have had to do this. And, you're buying the whole drum (very $$$) whether you use it or not.
Any maintenance you could need will be difficult to arrange at most stops along the way. Ferry fuel systems, if needed, require good design, and approval, I've approved a couple of them. There have been occasions where a ferry fuel system did not work. When this happens, you can actually be going down with cabin fuel you cannot use, the worse way to carry fuel!
And then there's the weather. A very thorough understanding of the weather systems is vital, and the willingness to sit and wait it out. One friend of mine spent eight days at a remote Greenland airport - just reading a book, while he waited.
I think occasionally groups of pilots do the crossing, and that's sure a better way, at least there is help more near...
Most GA singles do not have the payload to carry ferry fuel in tanks, and the required emergency gear. Some can be flown overgross for ferry, so you have to research.
The emergency equipment is obtainable, but returning it following the trip can be surprisingly difficult. Shipping rafts and vests with gas cylinders is silly expensive. The last time I was involved, it was less costly to just buy the raft than ship it back to the renter, which is what was done. Depending upon the route through north east Canada, you may have to prearrange fuel, and be prepared to pump it from drums with a pump you take along - I have had to do this. And, you're buying the whole drum (very $$$) whether you use it or not.
Any maintenance you could need will be difficult to arrange at most stops along the way. Ferry fuel systems, if needed, require good design, and approval, I've approved a couple of them. There have been occasions where a ferry fuel system did not work. When this happens, you can actually be going down with cabin fuel you cannot use, the worse way to carry fuel!
And then there's the weather. A very thorough understanding of the weather systems is vital, and the willingness to sit and wait it out. One friend of mine spent eight days at a remote Greenland airport - just reading a book, while he waited.
I think occasionally groups of pilots do the crossing, and that's sure a better way, at least there is help more near...
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Interesting to read this thread as just last night I watched the below video as was reccomended to me via a colleague. A pilot ferrying a single engine Bonanza with cabin ferry fuel on board. The ferry fuel presurisation system became inop (due duct tape of all things) and he ended up pressurising it via lung power!
Moderator
My Captain at the time and I had problems with a ferry fuel system in a Twin Otter. With his experience and wisdom, he resolved it, while I simply flew (this was not a one pilot problem). I also required lung power to fix the problem.
This crew:
https://www.baaa-acro.com/city/honolulu?page=1
Was not so lucky.
When I approve ferry fuel systems, I'm looking for all the possible failure modes, as there is much less frequently a plan B!
This crew:
https://www.baaa-acro.com/city/honolulu?page=1
Was not so lucky.
When I approve ferry fuel systems, I'm looking for all the possible failure modes, as there is much less frequently a plan B!
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Its not as difficult as some would have you believe. I have done it quite a few times now in a variety of aircraft. Careful planning, watching the weather and ensuring the aircraft has the capability are key to success. If its a **** can VFR only on SEP then stick it in a container. If its a high performance IFR singe that has the legs or can be tanked its not a major eve if planned properly by an experienced ferry pilot.
Do not become involved with anyone called `Robert Weaver`.......
See/read `Sticky` at the top of `Biz jets,etc ` Forum....
See/read `Sticky` at the top of `Biz jets,etc ` Forum....
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Cannot say much, but the advice Dutchless_Driver give are sound.
The northern route is Iqualuit (Frobisher Bay/CYFB) - Kangerlussuaq (Sondrestrom/BGSF) - Kulusuk (BGKK) - Reykjavik (BIRK).... Instead of Sondrestrom, both Ilulissat (BGJN) and Nuuk (BGGH) are also options, though the weather here is a little more unstable.
Weather is often very stable in Sondrestrom, but it gets freezing in wintertime, with the lowest I've experienced was minus 46 centigrade, and then you really have trouble starting most aircraft... we usually cease flying in minus 20 centigrade, but we also have our aircraft hangared.
If you go this way, the MOCA over the ice is FL120 or higher depending on weather, whereas going via Narsarsuaq you can fly around the south tip of Greenland.
Keep in mind that Narsarsuaq, Sondrestrom, Ilulissat, Kulusuk and Nuuk normally have AVGAS (they do run out, but seldom), but the rest of the airports normally not. So check the AIP and NOTAMS before flight.
http://aim.naviair.dk
And also, the Greenlandic west coast is "littered" with airports, familiarize yourself with their locations before flying, makes it a lot easier in case you have to divert due to weather. We'd preferably have you alive on one of those (and without AVGAS), than sitting somewhere on or, in worst case, in the mountains.
If you intend to fly low-ish, there are radio dead spots over the icecap, but ATS will inform you if that is the case, and when you can get in contact with them again. If needed to communicate, you can always relay via highlevel aircraft crossing Greenland on the highlevel frequencies or the emergency frequency. People flying high are really glad to help with that (remember they're bored up there, and any change to the routine is welcome).
The northern route is Iqualuit (Frobisher Bay/CYFB) - Kangerlussuaq (Sondrestrom/BGSF) - Kulusuk (BGKK) - Reykjavik (BIRK).... Instead of Sondrestrom, both Ilulissat (BGJN) and Nuuk (BGGH) are also options, though the weather here is a little more unstable.
Weather is often very stable in Sondrestrom, but it gets freezing in wintertime, with the lowest I've experienced was minus 46 centigrade, and then you really have trouble starting most aircraft... we usually cease flying in minus 20 centigrade, but we also have our aircraft hangared.
If you go this way, the MOCA over the ice is FL120 or higher depending on weather, whereas going via Narsarsuaq you can fly around the south tip of Greenland.
Keep in mind that Narsarsuaq, Sondrestrom, Ilulissat, Kulusuk and Nuuk normally have AVGAS (they do run out, but seldom), but the rest of the airports normally not. So check the AIP and NOTAMS before flight.
http://aim.naviair.dk
And also, the Greenlandic west coast is "littered" with airports, familiarize yourself with their locations before flying, makes it a lot easier in case you have to divert due to weather. We'd preferably have you alive on one of those (and without AVGAS), than sitting somewhere on or, in worst case, in the mountains.
If you intend to fly low-ish, there are radio dead spots over the icecap, but ATS will inform you if that is the case, and when you can get in contact with them again. If needed to communicate, you can always relay via highlevel aircraft crossing Greenland on the highlevel frequencies or the emergency frequency. People flying high are really glad to help with that (remember they're bored up there, and any change to the routine is welcome).
