CAA Electronic Conspicuity Rebate
Thread Starter
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 75
Likes: 0
From: London, UK
CAA Electronic Conspicuity Rebate
I'm surprised no-one has posted this yet, as everyone always likes free money...
The CAA are now giving out rebates of up to £250 to encourage people to add electronic conspicuity devices to their aircraft.
This includes ADS-B Out as well as portable/proprietary devices like Flarm and PilotAware.
https://www.caa.co.uk/General-aviati...cuity-devices/
The CAA are now giving out rebates of up to £250 to encourage people to add electronic conspicuity devices to their aircraft.
This includes ADS-B Out as well as portable/proprietary devices like Flarm and PilotAware.
https://www.caa.co.uk/General-aviati...cuity-devices/
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,684
Likes: 3
From: Down at the sharp pointy end, where all the weather is made.
It's only going to be of any use if the CAA mandate ONE type of EC and include Class G in the requirement. Also, you need to have mandated at least an aural warning device turned on with direction and range of threat in the audio. Having it on Skydemon or a panel-mounted screen in my opinion worsens the situation as folk will be even more heads-in than they are now.
There have been a number of high-profile fatal mid-airs in the United States recently. In several cases, in airspace where ADS-B hasn't been mandatory and wasn't even turned on.
There are other mitigations against mid-airs. A recent mid-air in the UK AAIB reports suggested that the 2 aircraft concerned were on different radio frequencies, so position reports would have been useless to each other. We need greater discipline on which units to work where. The report also went on to say some local pilots turn off their transponders to avoid being caught infringing - completely illegal!
2 years ago we needed a new transponder in the Club aircraft so chose to spend the extra on ADS-B 'out'. Routinely, we're the only such equipped aircraft in the local area. It's absolutely great for tracking the progress of students and hirers but pretty useless for collision avoidance. Our local Radar unit do a great job with 'Basic service but', then giving us advice on other traffic, based on our Mode 'S'.
TOO
There have been a number of high-profile fatal mid-airs in the United States recently. In several cases, in airspace where ADS-B hasn't been mandatory and wasn't even turned on.
There are other mitigations against mid-airs. A recent mid-air in the UK AAIB reports suggested that the 2 aircraft concerned were on different radio frequencies, so position reports would have been useless to each other. We need greater discipline on which units to work where. The report also went on to say some local pilots turn off their transponders to avoid being caught infringing - completely illegal!
2 years ago we needed a new transponder in the Club aircraft so chose to spend the extra on ADS-B 'out'. Routinely, we're the only such equipped aircraft in the local area. It's absolutely great for tracking the progress of students and hirers but pretty useless for collision avoidance. Our local Radar unit do a great job with 'Basic service but', then giving us advice on other traffic, based on our Mode 'S'.
TOO
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
From: Wiltshire
I think most people accept that unless a substantial proportion of GA traffic use interoperable EC then it will be of limited use. However, I think it is a bit negative to suggest that unless we have a US-style mandate that EC is a waste of time. This carrot has certainly worked with me. I had been contemplating buying a SkyEcho2 ever since it became legal to use with a transponder. The rebate offer prodded me into action to place an order quickly before stocks ran out or the rebate reached its cap. I gave it a try yesterday, and was very pleased. For sure it only detected a minority of other traffic, but still showed up a worthwhile number of other aircraft, including giving an audible warning of one on a reciprocal heading which I can easily imagine not seeing until too late. If this initiative coaxes more people off the fence, that has to be a good thing.
Having said that, I am slightly surprised that this initiative is not restricted to ADS-B devices, given that the CAA have stated that 1090 MHz ADS-B is its preferred EC solution for GA. It would have been a great opportunity to encourage standardisation on ADS-B. Maybe they didn’t want to get into a fight with a howling lynch mob of PilotAware and PowerFlarm users. Does anyone have a better explanation? I suspect that most of the uptake will be with ADS-B, and the maximum rebate does seem to have the price of SkyEcho 2 in mind
. Looking at the interoperability matrix, I suppose counsel of perfection for the time being would be to use my SkyEcho2 for ADS-B out and my old PAW device (the explosion in an electronics shop version),as a receiver, though I really do not want all the clutter. PAW filled a gap for a while, but I think it has served its time and I hope that inclusion in this initiative does not delay de-facto standardisation, through weight of numbers, on ADS-B.
Having said that, I am slightly surprised that this initiative is not restricted to ADS-B devices, given that the CAA have stated that 1090 MHz ADS-B is its preferred EC solution for GA. It would have been a great opportunity to encourage standardisation on ADS-B. Maybe they didn’t want to get into a fight with a howling lynch mob of PilotAware and PowerFlarm users. Does anyone have a better explanation? I suspect that most of the uptake will be with ADS-B, and the maximum rebate does seem to have the price of SkyEcho 2 in mind
. Looking at the interoperability matrix, I suppose counsel of perfection for the time being would be to use my SkyEcho2 for ADS-B out and my old PAW device (the explosion in an electronics shop version),as a receiver, though I really do not want all the clutter. PAW filled a gap for a while, but I think it has served its time and I hope that inclusion in this initiative does not delay de-facto standardisation, through weight of numbers, on ADS-B.
Joined: Apr 1999
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 2,649
Likes: 307
From: In front of a computer
Having it on Skydemon or a panel-mounted screen in my opinion worsens the situation as folk will be even more heads-in than they are now.
Joined: Dec 2005
Aviation Qualifications: PPL
Posts: 491
Likes: 4
From: West Sussex, England
Where does Rosetta fit and or is it ok?
Joined: Apr 1999
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 2,649
Likes: 307
From: In front of a computer
Hello Mike,
I have an RV-6 with the "tip-up" canopy thus there is a rear window. I have mounted the Rosetta vertically on the starboard side so the aerials have a good view. Two wires are involved (power and ADSB feed to transponder) which are neatly secured under the canopy sill and not really in view.
Performance is now excellent - the new software update and the ATOM/Grid combine to show more traffic than before and provide a constant readout of the nearest METAR station QNH. No need for RPS from now on.
The clincher for me is the way Skydemon uses the Rosetta output to produce traffic alerts. It has become second nature to simply look where the call-out suggests with no need to look at the screen. I do keep an iPhone running with just the PAW radar screen showing as a pre-warning of the situation ahead - you can alter the display range easily.
So I am ADSB-out via my Mode S transponder and ADSB-in plus Metars via the Rosetta and I'm free to scan with the Mk1 eyeball as well.......
I have an RV-6 with the "tip-up" canopy thus there is a rear window. I have mounted the Rosetta vertically on the starboard side so the aerials have a good view. Two wires are involved (power and ADSB feed to transponder) which are neatly secured under the canopy sill and not really in view.
Performance is now excellent - the new software update and the ATOM/Grid combine to show more traffic than before and provide a constant readout of the nearest METAR station QNH. No need for RPS from now on.
The clincher for me is the way Skydemon uses the Rosetta output to produce traffic alerts. It has become second nature to simply look where the call-out suggests with no need to look at the screen. I do keep an iPhone running with just the PAW radar screen showing as a pre-warning of the situation ahead - you can alter the display range easily.
So I am ADSB-out via my Mode S transponder and ADSB-in plus Metars via the Rosetta and I'm free to scan with the Mk1 eyeball as well.......
Joined: Dec 2005
Aviation Qualifications: PPL
Posts: 491
Likes: 4
From: West Sussex, England
Thank you,
At this stage the only self contained kit,free once purchased is adsb out with SE2.
All the rest eg using adsb in, or a rival, requires cobbling different lumps together, finding non 12 volts plus wires and all from different makers. A sort of "bread board" solution. Too messy to desire as well as for me, annual fees for stuff l don't want. VFR chart, compass, watch and eyeball are my modus operandus, plus the superb Airbox AWARE warning screen. All free except for a new electronic Chart as needed.
mike.
At this stage the only self contained kit,free once purchased is adsb out with SE2.
All the rest eg using adsb in, or a rival, requires cobbling different lumps together, finding non 12 volts plus wires and all from different makers. A sort of "bread board" solution. Too messy to desire as well as for me, annual fees for stuff l don't want. VFR chart, compass, watch and eyeball are my modus operandus, plus the superb Airbox AWARE warning screen. All free except for a new electronic Chart as needed.
mike.
Hello Mike,
I have an RV-6 with the "tip-up" canopy thus there is a rear window. I have mounted the Rosetta vertically on the starboard side so the aerials have a good view. Two wires are involved (power and ADSB feed to transponder) which are neatly secured under the canopy sill and not really in view.
Performance is now excellent - the new software update and the ATOM/Grid combine to show more traffic than before and provide a constant readout of the nearest METAR station QNH. No need for RPS from now on.
The clincher for me is the way Skydemon uses the Rosetta output to produce traffic alerts. It has become second nature to simply look where the call-out suggests with no need to look at the screen. I do keep an iPhone running with just the PAW radar screen showing as a pre-warning of the situation ahead - you can alter the display range easily.
So I am ADSB-out via my Mode S transponder and ADSB-in plus Metars via the Rosetta and I'm free to scan with the Mk1 eyeball as well.......
I have an RV-6 with the "tip-up" canopy thus there is a rear window. I have mounted the Rosetta vertically on the starboard side so the aerials have a good view. Two wires are involved (power and ADSB feed to transponder) which are neatly secured under the canopy sill and not really in view.
Performance is now excellent - the new software update and the ATOM/Grid combine to show more traffic than before and provide a constant readout of the nearest METAR station QNH. No need for RPS from now on.
The clincher for me is the way Skydemon uses the Rosetta output to produce traffic alerts. It has become second nature to simply look where the call-out suggests with no need to look at the screen. I do keep an iPhone running with just the PAW radar screen showing as a pre-warning of the situation ahead - you can alter the display range easily.
So I am ADSB-out via my Mode S transponder and ADSB-in plus Metars via the Rosetta and I'm free to scan with the Mk1 eyeball as well.......
Joined: Apr 1999
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 2,649
Likes: 307
From: In front of a computer
requires cobbling different lumps together, finding non 12 volts plus wires and all from different makers. A sort of "bread board" solution
annual fees
Joined: Dec 2005
Aviation Qualifications: PPL
Posts: 491
Likes: 4
From: West Sussex, England
Thanks ETOPS,
FWIW. Lynx said "....The Pilot Aware Rosetta does not transmit ADS-B out in its own right. It can provide GPS to a suitable ES Mode S Transponder, to give ADS-B out at Sil 0, which means uncertified ADS-B out. "
So smooth coversage isn't definite if "I" choose stuff based on the Flyer pages conflicting 'expert' contents this week !
The 12 hr battery & attracive SE2 OUT is self contained and conforms to a growing state supported UK.,US Canada standard method.
So far so good, but to translate its potential ADSB IN then requires another firm's offerings.
One such I read up demands a regulated 5 volt 2 amp uninterrupted supply and recommends one buys "a good cigarette socket device".. Which I'm left to acquire.
I do realise you do have it sussed, perhaps in the end one copies someone else: though workable it remains a rather Heath Robinson solution !
It needs a minimum of three or more separate components, plus wires and blue tooth etc. - all for obtaining a DIY fledgling EC scheme. It's deffo cobbled together.
Lynx meanwhile have kindly offered to demonstrate various conglomerates they sell to potential purchasers visiting Turweston, which could provide a sort of way through.
By example of a single'together' solutuion to a pilot's instrument take my EFIS. A complete system arrives, fits a standard 2 1/4" panel hole & only needs a 12 volt feed, it comes with quality plug/socket connecting lead to its remote GPS head. All self contained , all from one maker & works without compromise.
Apart from being kind to others SE2 alone isn't really enough, fees for proprietry translating gear use don't appeal either. Effectively that's a tax on safety,
Shirley our CAA want universal in/out implementation ?
Now it's a confusing time, one wants to do the right thing however it's too early yet to find any single make whole solution, in the interim it's a DIY Beta effort using cottage industry products.
FWIW. Lynx said "....The Pilot Aware Rosetta does not transmit ADS-B out in its own right. It can provide GPS to a suitable ES Mode S Transponder, to give ADS-B out at Sil 0, which means uncertified ADS-B out. "
So smooth coversage isn't definite if "I" choose stuff based on the Flyer pages conflicting 'expert' contents this week !
The 12 hr battery & attracive SE2 OUT is self contained and conforms to a growing state supported UK.,US Canada standard method.
So far so good, but to translate its potential ADSB IN then requires another firm's offerings.
One such I read up demands a regulated 5 volt 2 amp uninterrupted supply and recommends one buys "a good cigarette socket device".. Which I'm left to acquire.
I do realise you do have it sussed, perhaps in the end one copies someone else: though workable it remains a rather Heath Robinson solution !
It needs a minimum of three or more separate components, plus wires and blue tooth etc. - all for obtaining a DIY fledgling EC scheme. It's deffo cobbled together.
Lynx meanwhile have kindly offered to demonstrate various conglomerates they sell to potential purchasers visiting Turweston, which could provide a sort of way through.
By example of a single'together' solutuion to a pilot's instrument take my EFIS. A complete system arrives, fits a standard 2 1/4" panel hole & only needs a 12 volt feed, it comes with quality plug/socket connecting lead to its remote GPS head. All self contained , all from one maker & works without compromise.
Apart from being kind to others SE2 alone isn't really enough, fees for proprietry translating gear use don't appeal either. Effectively that's a tax on safety,
Shirley our CAA want universal in/out implementation ?
Now it's a confusing time, one wants to do the right thing however it's too early yet to find any single make whole solution, in the interim it's a DIY Beta effort using cottage industry products.
Joined: Apr 1999
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 2,649
Likes: 307
From: In front of a computer
at Sil 0, which means uncertified ADS-B out. "
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
From: Wiltshire
to translate its potential ADSB IN then requires another firm's offerings
It needs a minimum of three or more separate components, plus wires and blue tooth etc. - all for obtaining a DIY fledgling EC scheme.
Joined: Dec 2005
Aviation Qualifications: PPL
Posts: 491
Likes: 4
From: West Sussex, England
HotelM,
Is that it ?
I buy SE2 run on its own internal battery.
I buy a largish screen Android tablet also its own battery and get them to WiFi each other.
No wires, no fees and no holes to cut or wiring. Recharge at home.?
Oh, edit. Get a phone sim with PAYG credit and put into the phablet and use a free map preloaded off the web. Keep my superb AirboxAWARE for ATZ etc plus CAA chart display.
Still workable. Thanks.
Is that it ?
I buy SE2 run on its own internal battery.
I buy a largish screen Android tablet also its own battery and get them to WiFi each other.
No wires, no fees and no holes to cut or wiring. Recharge at home.?
Oh, edit. Get a phone sim with PAYG credit and put into the phablet and use a free map preloaded off the web. Keep my superb AirboxAWARE for ATZ etc plus CAA chart display.
Still workable. Thanks.
Last edited by mikehallam; 14th October 2020 at 08:35.
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
From: Wiltshire
mikehallam Nearly. When I said "a moving map device" I did mean a tablet with moving map EFB software. There are plenty of options that work with SE2, some of which are free (e.g. EasyVFR Basic) and others require a subscription. I have only every used SkyDemon, so cannot speak for other options. As far as I know Airbox Aware does not work with any EC input.
Joined: Dec 2005
Aviation Qualifications: PPL
Posts: 491
Likes: 4
From: West Sussex, England
Hotel-Mama,
Thank you so much, it's a totally new facility to me.
I looked VFR Basic up and loaded it plus air maps into my 7" screen mobile. The detail of airspace is great and its gps located me quickly.
I could keep my Airbox kit running with CAA Chart with space in front of me (Velcro'd on !) for my phone screen showing VFR Basic.
To tax your kindly brain a little further please, and before I order SE2:
In the easy VFR settings menu it mentions:-
a) "moving map info fields" ?? I suspect that's not what I need for SE2.
b) "FLARM/PilotAware settings". ---- Is this the correct link for SE2 IN to send acceptable signals to display ADSB contacts on the phone screen ?
Thank you so much, it's a totally new facility to me.
I looked VFR Basic up and loaded it plus air maps into my 7" screen mobile. The detail of airspace is great and its gps located me quickly.
I could keep my Airbox kit running with CAA Chart with space in front of me (Velcro'd on !) for my phone screen showing VFR Basic.
To tax your kindly brain a little further please, and before I order SE2:
In the easy VFR settings menu it mentions:-
a) "moving map info fields" ?? I suspect that's not what I need for SE2.
b) "FLARM/PilotAware settings". ---- Is this the correct link for SE2 IN to send acceptable signals to display ADSB contacts on the phone screen ?
