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N Registration SEP in the UK

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N Registration SEP in the UK

Old 19th Jul 2020, 12:54
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Question N Registration SEP in the UK

Hi,

I am looking at importing an N reg SEP from abroad as there appears to be a greater choice ( Vans RV type probably )

Can anyone confirm if its possible to operate an N reg type, using an FAA licence in the UK? I see quite a few N reg aircraft around but have heard that there may be a limitation on the length of time before they are supposed to be changed onto an EASA registration with all the associated headaches, inspections etc.

Does anyone have any experience of finding a great aircraft elsewhere and importing it back here to the UK?

Any advice or guidance much appreciated.

SFFH

SoFarFromHome is offline  
Old 19th Jul 2020, 19:51
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If it is on an Experimental FAA Certificate, you may have other problems.
Ask the CAA about operating it in UK Airspace. Importing by flying it? Or in a box and assembling here?
If you might register it here, contact the LAA.
​​​​​​
Maoraigh1 is offline  
Old 19th Jul 2020, 19:54
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An RV is US-experimental, in the UK that would be on a Permit to Fly. To get a PtF you are totally in the hands of how helpful LAA feel, and whether they can be convinced that the aeroplane is built to the standard they require. Given the uncertainties there - I would recommend not even trying.

A good N-reg on a CofA may well be a good investment. But an American homebuilt, no. Keep looking for a good example on the G reg, or build your own.

G
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Old 20th Jul 2020, 13:15
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A considerable number of RV types have been imported from the US to the UK. I've done it myself. If the aircraft has been built with little deviation from plans then the approval process is straightforward, although the LAA don't move very fast.

To operate it here on the N reg you first need to get it registered to a US citizen, corporation or permanent resident and then you need to obtain an exemption from the requirement to have a standard CofA; that will only normally be granted for 28 days in a 12 month period, and at a charge of 64.

Consider the cost of a good pre-buy inspection , shipping or a ferry flight and VAT plus upgrading radio (8.33 spacing) and transponder to Mode S if needed.

In short, a lot of research and preparation, but essentially doable.

Also good RVs tend to sell quickly, so you need to be able to act quickly when you find something.
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Old 22nd Jul 2020, 06:13
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If ICAO then extremely easy.
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Old 22nd Jul 2020, 14:29
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Thank you very much for your replies and all the valuable information.

Genghis,

Thank you for your input and advice. Sadly I am not in a position to build and won't be for a number of years. I have a great deal of respect for the builders but I am really not sure I could do it myself.

RV's are pretty rare in the UK and that is why I am looking to cast the net a little further and see what other aircraft may be available. Having spent some time in the states and meeting a number of RV builders it was clear there are some fantastic people and it seemed a superb source of aircraft.

If I could find an existing UK based LAA approved aircraft that would be ideal but as has been said they are often seldom for sale long.

Mark 1,

Thank you for the information, that's great to know. I imagine there must be a way to remove the 28 day restriction ( unless I have misinterpreted that bit ) or it would be very limiting and for me at least, pointless.

I have emailed the LAA on a number of occasions with regard these questions but never got a reply. A little disappointing to be honest. I will continue trying to contact the LAA and be ready to pounce if a suitable aircraft becomes available in the UK.

Thank you once again,

SFFH
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Old 23rd Jul 2020, 11:07
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Originally Posted by SoFarFromHome View Post
Thank you very much for your replies and all the valuable information.



Thank you for the information, that's great to know. I imagine there must be a way to remove the 28 day restriction ( unless I have misinterpreted that bit ) or it would be very limiting and for me at least, pointless.



SFFH
The 28 day limit is designed to allow short term visits of amateur built aircraft, not for permanent use.
Exceptions have been allowed for people bringing their aircraft here while on a work detachment in the UK who intend to return it home in a year or two, but for everyone else you will be required to register it and gain approval in the UK.
Operating with N reg with a standard CofA is allowed on a permanent basis (at least in the UK for the time being), but it still has to be registered to a US entity.
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Old 27th Jul 2020, 12:16
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Thank you very much Mark 1,

That explains the situation perfectly though it is disappointing!

I am not looking at C of A aircraft but an experimental of some type so will keep trying to get a response from the LAA with regard to the process for a possible import and associated headaches.

Best regards,

SFFH

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Old 27th Jul 2020, 19:41
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You may want to read this document.
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Old 28th Jul 2020, 10:49
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Good luck getting a reply from the LAA unless you attach your credit card details!
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Old 28th Jul 2020, 21:14
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I would suggest googling for the list of LAA Inspectors. You will be required to put in part of your post code for the list of inspectors nearby you. The listing gives you the inspectors direct daytime number and also their mobile. They are, after all, the individuals who will be directly involved in accepting or not your imported aeroplane. They will be able give the best and most realistic advice from previous hands on experience.
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Old 29th Jul 2020, 12:00
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Thank you for your replies regarding the LAA and the inspection process.

It certainly seems thorough and at best a strip down fo the aircraft and rebuild following inspection. Certainly a daunting process for a first timer like myself but as has been said before not insurmountable.

I have seen some rather nice, though expensive RV's for example on EASA registrations, an RV7 for example at 119k EUR at present that could be moved onto the PH, Netherlands register. Would I then be able to operate that aircraft in the UK on the PH register and avoid the LAA and its inspection process? I don't have any problem with the nature of the inspections or severe scrutiny over an imported aircraft. Far from it however there does appear to be a somewhat pre determined view on aircraft that weren't built and inspected by the LAA.

I will look up my local inspector and try and talk directly with them, as richardthethrid said, having had no reply so far is rather unimpressive.

Thanks again for your time and thoughts!

SFFH
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Old 29th Jul 2020, 12:28
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If it wasn't a homebuilt you would be at least good for the next 5 months until a certain event happens.
As it is a homebuilt, the 28 day rule still applies.
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Old 29th Jul 2020, 12:57
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Thanks BDAttitude,

They don't make it easy do they....



SoFarFromHome is offline  
Old 29th Jul 2020, 14:36
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It doesn't matter what EU/world country the aeroplane is registered with. EASA has nothing to do with homebuilt or permit aeroplanes. There are no international agreements for permit aeroplanes. So, it is very difficult to move such aeroplanes to and from any national register.

If your mind is set on an RV then buy one which is already on the register of the country where you intend to operate it. You will find many dutch registered home built aeroplanes on the market but you will have the same issues trying to register it to another country. There are a number of dutch registered home built types here in France. Some of the dutch sellers have agreed to keep the aeroplane, in their name and address in the Netherlands, so as to retain it on the dutch register. Its a very unreliable risk: the dutch seller may change their mind later or sadly die. None of the EU countries allow you to keep a home built aeroplane permanently in the country without it being registered.

The RVs are fabulous aeroplanes. As others have said a good example of an RV at the right price sells in days. The key then is to buy wisely.
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Old 29th Jul 2020, 15:20
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AFAIK, NL being a decent tax haven has means of dealing with the residence problem - similar to the US. However the 28 day problem remains.
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Old 29th Jul 2020, 18:10
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Even the RedBull guys ( money) couldnt get over the 28 day rule in 12 months.....
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Old 29th Jul 2020, 21:55
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Originally Posted by richardthethird View Post
Good luck getting a reply from the LAA unless you attach your credit card details!
A bit unfair and not my experience.

However, LAA Engineering are always very busy and the response time is probably slower than normal because they are still working from home at the moment AFAIK.

Has the original poster joined the LAA? Perhaps he/she will then get a better response as a member! He/she will have to join anyway if they buy an aircraft that operates on a LAA permit.

He/she will then also get access to the LAA magazine which often has articles and information about RVs. Apart from LAA inspectors, lots of free information from UK RV owners is also normally available at the LAA rally, sadly cancelled this year because of the pandemic, but watch out for other LAA/RV fly-ins over the next few months.

In any event, most of the information he/she needs to know about importing a homebuilt aircraft is in the LAA document cited by Mark 1.

I have often thought about importing an RV or Kitfox from the USA because of the greater choice and attractive prices {although if you factor in the cost of finding one and getting it over here and inspected/possibly modified, the savings might not be very great) but in the end, I concluded it was not worth the hassle.

My advice would be to find a nice one in the UK and go and fly it (after some help from the LAA Coaching scheme if needed).
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