Calling the tower or a/g frequency even when flying above their airspace
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Scotland
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good to talk!
EGPK certainly encourage it!
I heard someone call into Prestwick Tower on Saturday - just passing thru. ATC said 'thanks for calling - gave him some traffic info and QNH/QFE info'. Said info was ack'd and thanked for and ATC replied - 'have a good afternoon and thanks for calling in'
great attitude and v helpful ATC at EGPK (pretty standard at P'wick) Hey gets my vote!
Thanks ATC guys n gals - watched a programme on Discovery Wings ref ATC - stressful job! One controller explained how she accidentall merged two plots and thankfully all survived - she told how it shook her up for over a year after WOW!
My instructor said 'if in doubt give em a call' they will soon tell you if they are busy!
regards
I heard someone call into Prestwick Tower on Saturday - just passing thru. ATC said 'thanks for calling - gave him some traffic info and QNH/QFE info'. Said info was ack'd and thanked for and ATC replied - 'have a good afternoon and thanks for calling in'
great attitude and v helpful ATC at EGPK (pretty standard at P'wick) Hey gets my vote!
Thanks ATC guys n gals - watched a programme on Discovery Wings ref ATC - stressful job! One controller explained how she accidentall merged two plots and thankfully all survived - she told how it shook her up for over a year after WOW!
My instructor said 'if in doubt give em a call' they will soon tell you if they are busy!
regards
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: N.E. Derbyshire, UK
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Chilli Monster et al
A word of advice from your experience then, please.
Let's say I'm flying from Netherthorpe, south-east, and will be passing around 4 miles south of Gamston ATZ. Having left EGNF I would want LARS from Waddington, and would also soon have to contact them for permission to cross the Cranwell/Barkston Heath CMATZ.
I'm not intending to stray into Gamston's ATZ but would consider it good practice to let them know where I am. On the other hand, I don't want to start talking to Waddington, then switch to Gamston, and then switch back to Waddington, so if I'm going to speak to Gamston at all, I'd probably not request LARS from Waddington until well past Gamston.
This is a real potential scenario, as I plan to fly EGNF to Norwich, via Fenland.
Would you suggest that as long as Waddington have me on radar and I don't stray into Gamston ATZ, that Gamston need not know I'm there? Seems discourteous to me, but from ATC point of view, what is the preference?
Thanks!
A word of advice from your experience then, please.
Let's say I'm flying from Netherthorpe, south-east, and will be passing around 4 miles south of Gamston ATZ. Having left EGNF I would want LARS from Waddington, and would also soon have to contact them for permission to cross the Cranwell/Barkston Heath CMATZ.
I'm not intending to stray into Gamston's ATZ but would consider it good practice to let them know where I am. On the other hand, I don't want to start talking to Waddington, then switch to Gamston, and then switch back to Waddington, so if I'm going to speak to Gamston at all, I'd probably not request LARS from Waddington until well past Gamston.
This is a real potential scenario, as I plan to fly EGNF to Norwich, via Fenland.
Would you suggest that as long as Waddington have me on radar and I don't stray into Gamston ATZ, that Gamston need not know I'm there? Seems discourteous to me, but from ATC point of view, what is the preference?
Thanks!
Join Date: May 2001
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I'm all for more class D.....BUT class D with an upper limit and without overlaying Class A.
Take Bournemouth and Southampton, you have bournemouth class D up to 2000' then Solent on top of that and finally class A above this. This leaves nowhere for VFR pilots to go other than through the Class D, which is fine, unless you don't get clearance. However, the US model of things has class C airspace, generally up to 4000' above airport elevation, 10nm radius, possibly with a few lugs. This is used to contain the instrument procedures for the particular airport, so protecting IFR traffic from VFR traffic. However, it allows the VFR pilot to transit overhead, without danger to IFR traffic arriving and leaving, without any contact with ATC(ie if they are too busy). If the VFR pilot wants to transit through the class C then a clearance and radar service is provided. Same goes for US class B airspace. Low alt airways in the US are class E, allowing VFR traffic to use them or not.
..um what was the question...oh yea, chat with ATC
Cheers
EA
Take Bournemouth and Southampton, you have bournemouth class D up to 2000' then Solent on top of that and finally class A above this. This leaves nowhere for VFR pilots to go other than through the Class D, which is fine, unless you don't get clearance. However, the US model of things has class C airspace, generally up to 4000' above airport elevation, 10nm radius, possibly with a few lugs. This is used to contain the instrument procedures for the particular airport, so protecting IFR traffic from VFR traffic. However, it allows the VFR pilot to transit overhead, without danger to IFR traffic arriving and leaving, without any contact with ATC(ie if they are too busy). If the VFR pilot wants to transit through the class C then a clearance and radar service is provided. Same goes for US class B airspace. Low alt airways in the US are class E, allowing VFR traffic to use them or not.
..um what was the question...oh yea, chat with ATC
Cheers
EA
The Original Whirly
Join Date: Feb 1999
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What about A/G airfields? Way back when I used to fly from Welshpool, the A/G operator said she was busy enough, without aircraft passing overhead at 3000ft+ clogging up the frequency telling her about it. And I seem to remember that at Sleap, there was a notice in the tower telling A/G operators that they should just tell people the circuit was active and to keep a good lookout. And I can do that without being told.
I'd probably tell an airfield if I was passing overhead (I rarely do that), but if the frequency was busy and I was well above them in good wx, I might not. But passing close to them? Depends on circumstances, and I'm not sure that absolute rules about this are even a good idea.
I'd probably tell an airfield if I was passing overhead (I rarely do that), but if the frequency was busy and I was well above them in good wx, I might not. But passing close to them? Depends on circumstances, and I'm not sure that absolute rules about this are even a good idea.
Join Date: Feb 2001
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Something that I don't think has been mentioned is the response of the recipient ATCers and the effect of this on our likliehood to call them "next time passing". Recently I've received responses raqnging from warm and appreciative (Wycombe), to gruff (begins with an "E" and ends with a "tree"), to being totally ignored (Harlow International aka Stanstead) when passing close and making a "courtesy call".
Subsequent trips passing close by caused me to ignore Stanstead (I was just outside their airspace but I hope it concentrated their minds for a few minutes), marginally avoid E***tree ATZ, and call Wycombe... so guys and gals on the ground its a two way thing - be nice to us and we'll help you.
As for Luton & Stanstead if you want all that airspace please at least share it when you can and also give us some ATC service - it helps us both. A few PPLs could always program your CTR boundaries plus say a 800m buffer into their GPSs and go flying around your zones..... legal and I'm sure it would add "interest" to your shift! I've an old half mill South of England chart dating back to '82 and the increased restrictions are depressing.....
I've almost always had an excellent exchange with whatever ATC I've spoken to, from Heathrow Radar down to Bloggs Farms grass strip; but it does take two to tango.
Subsequent trips passing close by caused me to ignore Stanstead (I was just outside their airspace but I hope it concentrated their minds for a few minutes), marginally avoid E***tree ATZ, and call Wycombe... so guys and gals on the ground its a two way thing - be nice to us and we'll help you.
As for Luton & Stanstead if you want all that airspace please at least share it when you can and also give us some ATC service - it helps us both. A few PPLs could always program your CTR boundaries plus say a 800m buffer into their GPSs and go flying around your zones..... legal and I'm sure it would add "interest" to your shift! I've an old half mill South of England chart dating back to '82 and the increased restrictions are depressing.....
I've almost always had an excellent exchange with whatever ATC I've spoken to, from Heathrow Radar down to Bloggs Farms grass strip; but it does take two to tango.
Join Date: May 2002
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Based at Elstree, (yeah, yeah, much moaning agreed with!) -quite common to pass overhead Stapleford.
Agree with Keef that calling is always a good idea, but more so than ever at a field like Stapleford which has a navaid (LAM VOR) actually on the field.
Maybe lessened slightly by RNAV and GPS, but VORs still tend to be like a honeypot to a GA passing directly overhead. Especially whe vertically limited by the TMA as well, Stapleford has got to be a classic example of where it MUST make sense to call, even if outside / above the ATZ.
Agree with Keef that calling is always a good idea, but more so than ever at a field like Stapleford which has a navaid (LAM VOR) actually on the field.
Maybe lessened slightly by RNAV and GPS, but VORs still tend to be like a honeypot to a GA passing directly overhead. Especially whe vertically limited by the TMA as well, Stapleford has got to be a classic example of where it MUST make sense to call, even if outside / above the ATZ.
Join Date: Apr 2001
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I was wondering yesterday if I should talk to Solent when I was passing just under the northern end of their Class-D by New Arlesford (D from 2500' to FL55), just to let them know that I knew where I was. I decided that it wasn't necessary as I was talking to Farnborough (and squawking a Farnborough code with mode-C), but if I was pottering about squawking 7000 would such a call be appreciated? Or am I better off just keeping quiet?
Join Date: Oct 1999
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big.al
Call Wadd, they'll ident you. If they think you're getting a bit close to Gamston horizontally and vertically they'll tell you to keep the squawk, give Gamston a call and then come back to them when you're ready. Waddington are very acomodating in that respect (I fly out of Nottingham, even though I work a lot further south so you're getting more personal experience than usual here
)
Whirly
I think the best thing as far as A/G airfields is concerned is try and produce a mental picture by looking at the map and seeing what they've got in the way of facilities, and how they are situated. 3000' over the top of them I would say listening out is sufficient but look at the map - how high are they? 3000' QNH over Leicester or Compton Abbas is worth a call. 3000' QNH over somewhere a lot lower then listen and look out.
ppl(a)
Couldn't agree more with regards to the likes of Stapleford - 250' between top of ATZ and London TMA it's not healthy not to talk
F3G
Nothing wrong with a good wind up
CM
Call Wadd, they'll ident you. If they think you're getting a bit close to Gamston horizontally and vertically they'll tell you to keep the squawk, give Gamston a call and then come back to them when you're ready. Waddington are very acomodating in that respect (I fly out of Nottingham, even though I work a lot further south so you're getting more personal experience than usual here
)Whirly
I think the best thing as far as A/G airfields is concerned is try and produce a mental picture by looking at the map and seeing what they've got in the way of facilities, and how they are situated. 3000' over the top of them I would say listening out is sufficient but look at the map - how high are they? 3000' QNH over Leicester or Compton Abbas is worth a call. 3000' QNH over somewhere a lot lower then listen and look out.
ppl(a)
Couldn't agree more with regards to the likes of Stapleford - 250' between top of ATZ and London TMA it's not healthy not to talk
F3G
Nothing wrong with a good wind up
CM
