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CG and spins

Old 9th Jul 2019, 17:36
  #21 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2000
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I'm not so sure about the aeroplane, but that's one hell of an instructor.

Genghis the Engineer is offline  
Old 9th Jul 2019, 18:47
  #22 (permalink)  
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Location: SW UK
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So, Shy Torque, you were in an inverted spin, rather than just inverted? So pulling back on the stick while in an inverted spin would be the same idea as pushing the stick forward in a non inverted spin, yes?

G:- My objections to 2 strokes are really just noise and fuel burn. The Shadow CD seems the best to me too; narrower cockpit etc so more air for the prop, longer wings than some of the others, so slower stall and better glide angle. If the little rotax is actually a good engine, all the better. I'm encouraged by your opinion of the 503; all 2 stroke engines in any form are a mystery to me, I just remember being drenched in fuel by a seagull outboard in a rubber dingy years ago;- my only experience with 2 strokes, besides falling off the back of a GT750 in my teens.

A hangar would be obligatory at my local field, and I'm up for learning new maintenance skills. Plus a long standing member of the local club has owned one for many years, and loves it.

You mentioned the CFM's being fragile; one option for me to learn to fly is to buy one, and get the local instructor to teach me on it. He flies flexwings and 3 axis, but currently only owns a flex wing. Not sure if that level of financial commitment is quite called for; what if I decide to quit and want to sell it? Are they easy to sell, or do they 'stay on the shelf' for years?

Would you say the shadow is a good option for a novice student pilot to learn on? Or would the fragility be an issue?

Thanks for tolerating me veering off topic, let me know if I should just start a new thread....
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Old 9th Jul 2019, 21:14
  #23 (permalink)  
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I'll leave current admins like DAR to worry about thread discipline.

My impression is that Shadows I see on sale don't usually stay advertised for more than a month or two, so I'd hope that you can get rid of one if you want to quite easily.

There is a Shadow CD, G-MWVG (known to one and all as George) that was used for ab-initio PPL training from the Shadow Flight Centre at Old Sarum. Looking on G-INFO it is still there, with 4000hrs on it (although I don't think they're regularly teaching on it any more). I passed my microlight GFT on it in 1993! That probably tells you all you need to know about the robustness and suitability for student pilots, if well looked after.

The main thing with the 503 is that it needs regular maintenance - plugs at 25hrs (cost of a set about a tenner), every 50 hours for minor maintenance, monitor crankshaft wear from about 250hrs, and expect to decoke about every 150hrs and rebuild (actually about a 3 day job costing a few hundred pounds in parts, 700 if you're unlucky) about every 450hrs. I'd be very happy to own a 503 engined microlight again any time, having had a couple.

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Old 10th Jul 2019, 16:16
  #24 (permalink)  
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[color=left=#000000]One of the problems in this Industry is that pilots, in general, are trained to comparatively low levels of technical understanding.[/color]
My university ATPL students were trained and tested to very high levels of technical understanding. I accept this thread is at PPL level.

The static and dynamic stability lectures took me five hours in total and in terms of spinning I took them through the subject of B/A ratios also.
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Old 15th Jul 2019, 03:24
  #25 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: FL, USA
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Originally Posted by dook View Post
My university ATPL students were trained and tested to very high levels of technical understanding. I accept this thread is at PPL level.

The static and dynamic stability lectures took me five hours in total and in terms of spinning I took them through the subject of B/A ratios also.
How much did they recall after taking the respective exams and how much of it do they need to know flying transport category aircraft?

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Old 15th Jul 2019, 10:05
  #26 (permalink)  
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There's always an issue that all of the professional licences train and educate people for a plethora of professional pilot roles, not just any single one. Having recently added a US CP to my EASA CPL I was struck by the very different emphasis each places on different aspects of both theory and practice - yet in theory each qualifies me to do (almost) exactly the same things, just with a different registration painted on the side.

For me, working in the technical side of aviation, the theoretical aspects of my EASA CPL are vastly more useful than the extremely minimal and light-GA centric FAA CPL written syllabus. On the other hand the greater emphasis on handling in the FAA CPL checkride is more useful to me as a test pilot than the "let's pretend we're 1960s airline pilots" content of the EASA skill test: but having done that I've found myself very well equipped to do bits of ferrying around Europe in minimally equipped aeroplanes.

Basically, I am saying that any licence course, or education course (and these combined ATPL degree programmes are both) should NOT be really narrowly focused one specific job is. That is, in my opinion, a deeply flawed view.


Last edited by Genghis the Engineer; 15th Jul 2019 at 10:15.
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Old 15th Jul 2019, 13:05
  #27 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2010
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Knowledge base

Having done 3 atpls, plus light aircraft, microlight,glider and paraglider qualifications on four continents, the knowledge base is impossible for one small brain to comprehend. It stems from old systems, accidents and the flying environment modified to the lowest common denominator by those who lack the ability of sky gods. There will never be a consenus even in a relatively small gliding club in one of the british isles and especially in a frog one. Add regulators, many of which dream of flying a jet, and the system is well and truely up the creek.
The best one can hope for is to write,read and talk then disagree.
From someone who nearly didn't get out of a spin, whose pupil then didn't 30 years later, and did his first open cockpit spin of a single seat vintage glider 2 years ago..when the CFI wouldn't. In the right aircraft, with a proper preflight check..great fun!
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Old 16th Jul 2019, 02:13
  #28 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2015
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I imagine that this is something that those who fly plane loads of sky divers are acutely aware of?
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