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First Aircraft Purchase

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First Aircraft Purchase

Old 6th Nov 2018, 11:29
  #21 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2009
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Couple of points. You intend to get your IR(R) fairly quickly. Thats a good leap for a new PPL. It may prove a longer task than you expect.

You intend to fly on business. Check your company Key Man insurance. It may not allow you to fly at all, almost certainly not to fly your key staff without quite a lot of experience.

I had a PA32 260 from 1967. Brilliant aeroplane. Did all I asked of it, but on that particular one the CofG needed close watching.

Sir Niall Dementia is offline  
Old 6th Nov 2018, 12:41
  #22 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Glens o' Angus by way of LA
Age: 56
Posts: 1,974
I have 1500 hours with a CPL IR ticket, if I was a freshly minted PPL with a family of six precious ones Id sign them up for EasyJets frequent flyer program, buy myself a warrior for the first 300hours/3 years to get all the scrapes and bending out of the way and IR done, then move up to a 210, Cirrus Bonanza etc.After 1000 Hours id be looking for something that could handle the ice/weather up in the airways and probably upgrade to a BA frequent flyer membership for the family at that time.
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Old 6th Nov 2018, 15:07
  #23 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2014
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To how many flight hours PIC does 'recently obtained' convert? I always told my students to take max one passenger for the first 100 hours after license, never kids. I took the first passenger after 300 hours, after I was firm in aviating. A six seater and IR right away sounds a bit too much self confidence to me. Flying such a heavy bird from the beginning is quite a challange and I would only advice if you really have a lot of spare time to fly a lot of hours a year to get acquainted. Yes, I do know people jumping from student to C210 or SR22, but they are rare and not all pass the challenge of life.
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Old 6th Nov 2018, 19:53
  #24 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Horsted Keynes, West Sussex.
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Originally Posted by frazmac View Post
I have recently obtained my EASA PPL,
Hi Frazmac. Firstly , well done on obtaining your PPL . It is the first step . It is your 'licence to learn' ! The only advice I will offer you is : Just make sure that your budget level [which appears to be pretty good] doesn't exceed your skill level !
I hope this doesn't sound cynical , but it isn't unusual that guys obtain flying qualifications and then immediately want to progress to higher levels and then suddenly find themselves getting into trouble a damn sight quicker than they did in the a/c that they learnt in .
But if you do go on to buying /flying some super 'whizz/bang' , [and I hope you do] then please , please , please get yourself acquainted with it before you start taking your family/friends all over Europe .
Chris Martyr is offline  
Old 7th Nov 2018, 09:56
  #25 (permalink)  
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Nobody has mentioned weather. Based in Scotland (me too) plan on a dispatch rate of 20% for VFR and 80% IFR for a 150 mile trip. Nov-Feb maybe 5%. Is this practical for business use?
I would suggest renting for a while, probably a 4 seater is all that is available, and see how that works. Your decision on a suitable aircraft will definitely mature in that time.
Best of luck. Probably speak to you soon.
dont overfil is offline  
Old 8th Nov 2018, 06:12
  #26 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Low desert California
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I don't know about the insurance market in the UK, but you would be hard pressed to get insurance on a high performance aircraft here with less then 200 to 300 hours. Over here, you need to get insurance approved before you buy if a low time pilot. The previous post about renting, if possible in the UK, would be a good idea.
Desert Flyer is offline  
Old 8th Nov 2018, 10:30
  #27 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Oxford, UK
Posts: 1,548
Family of 6. That way you can all go together...and if that sounds sinister thats exactly what happens. Read about it frequently in the Air Accident reports. I have four offspring, and 18 grandkids, and I only ever took one ADULT child up at a time. Even then they got bored fairly quickly. What you really don't need is small bored and airsick children and a wife who is wondering how you could spend all that money on YOUR toy!

Now as for taking up your business associates, if they have any brains at all they will fly commercial. Otherwise weather can ruin your plans and your reputation..... How many hours of experience and ratings before you truly qualify to fly safely? Get real!
mary meagher is offline  
Old 10th Nov 2018, 15:13
  #28 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: ayr
Age: 46
Posts: 8
Thanks again for everyone's comments. I'll definitely be considering my options closely before making a decision.

I understand the concerns about my lack of the required experience to handle an aircraft like this. It does occur to me that taking my IR(r) course in an aircraft like this sitting alongside my instructor would be a decent way to start obtaining the experience necessary to fly such a plane.

Otherwise, how would I ever get the necessary experience?

If there were a decent aircraft available to rent in the meantime, I would certainly opt for that. But I haven't seen such an option so far. If anyone knows of something suitable, please let me know.

Incidentally, I don't intend to be trying to take the whole family on trips around Europe or anything. I expect most of the longer range flights will mainly be myself and sometimes one or two other passengers. But I would prefer to have the space available to take friends/family/colleagues for a short flight somewhere if the situation arises.
frazmac is offline  
Old 14th Nov 2018, 11:28
  #29 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Lancashire & Florida
Posts: 117
A question out of curiosity more than anything else.
Not so much of what aircraft to purchase, but how to purchase.
I’m familiar with the protocol in the USA where it’s almost unheard of to part with any money before a good Pre Buy inspection is done by a licensed A&P mechanic, and preferably not by the mechanic who the seller used for his annuals.Does the same procedure apply in the UK when looking to purchase an aircraft ?
alland2012 is offline  
Old 14th Nov 2018, 17:03
  #30 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: London
Age: 51
Posts: 127
Too be honest, I'm not sure it's so much the actual handling of a high performance aircraft as the work load required to fly long distances with very changable weather and having to make decisions that mean you and your family could end up a very long way from home with no easy means of getting there. Personally with your means id get ir(r) then do some consolidation and then do my twin rating and buy one of those. Personally I would never, ever, fly my family or friends over water I couldn't glide clear of unless I had an engine on each wing.
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Old 14th Nov 2018, 21:56
  #31 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Banished (twice) to the pointless forest
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Frazmac, you really should listen to what Andrew Devlin can tell you about this.

He's a nice guy, with some nice aircraft, oodles of money and time to indulge himself in it.

For what you plan to do, he's the guy who knows about it.
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Old 6th Dec 2018, 12:29
  #32 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: ayr
Age: 46
Posts: 8
I'd like to get in touch with Andrew. Do you have any contact details for him?
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Old 6th Dec 2018, 19:30
  #33 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: UK
Age: 81
Posts: 699
I like the phrase
”take the other members of the family with me”
As an inexperienced pilot you might well do that.
When I fly I want an experienced professional pilot (or even two) in the front of a commercially maintained public service aircraft.
funfly is offline  
Old 6th Dec 2018, 19:40
  #34 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2007
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Given your post, you do realise this forum is for private flying?
Sam Rutherford is offline  
Old 6th Dec 2018, 21:17
  #35 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: UK
Age: 81
Posts: 699
Originally Posted by Sam Rutherford View Post

Given your post, you do realise this forum is for private flying?
Sorry mate, Although I don't fly nowadays I have quite a few hundred hours under my belt but always GA.
Like most others, I took my family members up for a flight as soon as I passed my PPL but looking back this was a silly thing to do. During my time there were many "phew" moments. I remember taking off once from La Rochelle in a PA32 (might have been a PA28) with a full tank four on board and all our holiday luggage, hot day etc. - density altitude? but didn't do it again!
Let the pro's fly your family until you are well experienced and certainly with an instrument rating.
But he does seem like a sensible fellow so I am sure he will read into the comments here.

I must add that although I have owned quite a few aircraft and flown many types, I actually did have most flying fun in my xAir Falcon microlight.
funfly is offline  
Old 8th Dec 2018, 10:41
  #36 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: UK
Posts: 21
I agree with most of the stuff posted already, you need an intermediate aeroplane before moving to a PA46. The workload increases significantly in a high performance complex type. A good comprimise would be a Cessna 206. It's a much better load lifter than most six place aeroplanes. It is fixed gear so maintenance will be a bit cheaper. The problem with most six place aeroplanes is that they are really only four place aeroplanes by the time you have some baggage and plenty of fuel. Be prepared to spend a bit of time with an instructor getting checked out on type and you may find your insurance company specifies a minimum amount of dual time on type before you can fly it by yourself.
Always have an experienced engineer who knows the type to do a pre-purchase survey before you commit to buy. You don't want an aeroplane that has spent most of it's life as a parachute drop machine.
Best of luck with your search and try and fly as many of the types on your list with their owners. Most owners will take you flying in their pride and joy for a contribution to the cost of the fuel and a bacon sandwich.
Collieflyer One is offline  
Old 8th Dec 2018, 10:46
  #37 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2007
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Not sure anyone has mentioned PA46...? PA32 (FG), C206 etc. are good, 'easy' six-seat planes.
Sam Rutherford is offline  
Old 8th Dec 2018, 11:14
  #38 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: UK
Posts: 21
The original post mentionned they were looking at Piper Malibu which last time I checked was a PA46!
Collieflyer One is offline  
Old 8th Dec 2018, 11:44
  #39 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2007
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Sorry, seen!

I think the OP will struggle to find a PA46 of any sort of 'quality' for $300K. Plus that's a much bigger jump than the other options, and also actually can't carry six people for more than, well, really not very far at all!
Sam Rutherford is offline  
Old 8th Dec 2018, 13:08
  #40 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: UK
Posts: 21
Yes it's the same old story the last two seats are there just for show. I have a twin comanche which is really only a four place aeroplane or a three seater if you fill the tanks. But you can go a very long way with 120 US gal.
Collieflyer One is offline  

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